FP+ meltdown part x

[wdisney9000]

does that mean it is popular with the average guest? I don't know but it appears Disney thinks so.

Disney also thinks that 7DMT actually tells the story from the Dwarves perspective

 

[BigTxEars]

Disney also thinks that 7DMT actually tells the story from the Dwarves perspective

That is more a more subjective issue for them I would think. I would guess since they see the FP+ usage data, the direct customer feedback via visits to guest relations at the parks as well as letters and phone calls they have a less subjective view on FP+ and it's popularity or lack of. Who knows, the only real answer will be rather it stays in the parks and continues to spread in usage.

 

[AEfx]

Do you people understand that you DO NOT have to use the FP+ system. If you hate it so much wait in the standby lines, and don't participate in anything that they offer, I am not just referring to your comment, but to everyone who hates Disney and what they try to do. I also find it odd that if you all hate it sooo much, you are on this forum all the time and seem to go to Disney quite often, for being such haters you seem to like it enough to go.

Ah, to be young and naive again. I am making that assumption not because of your opinion, but the way you are presenting it and the simplistic way you are viewing the situation.

First, if you were following - they are already testing FP+ only on one ride, and since they are testing it - you can be assured that testing on a live environment is one of the last steps before implementation. So waiting in standby may not be an option - it already isn't for BoG, a fast food joint, for crying out loud. In any case, even if it stays still the way it is - scheduling 5-minute rides MONTHS in advance (when one doesn't know the weather, what else might come up, what mood you will be in that day, etc.) is simply absurd.

Second, I don't think anyone who posts here regularly "hates Disney". What they may dislike, or yes, maybe even hate, is how certain folks in charge of the theme parks are currently running the place. I think back to something a relative of mine used to say when I was a kid, "I may not always like the things that you do, but I will always love you."

There are plenty of happy-go-lucky places to discuss Disney on the internet (though, they are getting a bit more sparse as more and more folks wake up to what is/has been going on), but this site is not one of them. We tend to deal mostly in reality here. And the reality is, for the price of this new, overly complex system we could have paid for a whole theme park worth of new rides.

So you'll forgive folks for pointing out that the massive investment in this system has cost us quite a bit in terms of actual parks development for a gimicky system which Disney freely admits was not done to enhance any guest experience but simply to try to get folks to spend a few more cents on the dollar in the parks vs. offering a quality experience that then attracts more guests/more spending as certain other nearby resorts have done the last few years.

 

[pumpkin7]

I'm so confused by whether it's the best thing Disney have done or a total disaster. I didn't even use it on my most recent trip, I just went to a kiosk and tried to book a Fastpass same day for a previously no-wait ride, but it was so much hassle I didn't bother, but all around me I saw people struggling, plus all waits were far longer, so for me MyMagic sucks big time.

And yet I come on here, and see many reviews on other sites, where people think it's the best thing ever and can't get enough of it. So just when I think I must be wrong, and the suits at Disney really are geniuses for spending a billion dollars on this, I see a few posts like the ones in this thread that match my experience.

How can one system be perceived so differently by different people?

Because the people who actually like it are the people who implemented it, with lots of different accounts.

 

[wdisney9000]

Ah, to be young and naive again.

Either young and naive, or just flat out unintelligent. I only suggest unintelligent for the simple fact that we have seen countless people regurgitate the same old tired line of "If you hate Disney, why do you go?" Is that the best people can come up when defending Disneys financial mistakes? In lieu of actually conjuring up an intelligent response they just attack anyone who isnt as brainwashed or led astray as they are.

Despite being a season ticket holder and buying jerseys, I must hate the Atlanta Falcons because I scream at my TV when they blow it on 3rd down and Julio Jones was wide open. Or could it possibly, just possibly, be because I know they can do better? I will say though, Dirk Koetter is the George Kalogrodris of the Atlanta Falcons organization. Arthur Blank is our Eisner!!!! (I think Eisner was great, just to clarify)

 

[hopemax]

A family friend called last night because they were heading to the MK today. They are total Disney theme park virgins, and had never even heard of marquee rides like Pirates, Splash, etc.

This is the part that I think gets missed in many online discussions. If you are participating on a WDW forum, you are by definition a commando. Even if you like to sleep in, and hop the first bus that comes. You may be the lowest rung on the commando scale, but you can successfully hop the first bus and have a good time because the volumes of knowledge you've dumped into your brain. So many of us have either been visiting Disney for so long, or our first times were as children that trying to put ourselves into the shoes of first timers, with a low Disney IQ is not an easy thing. How do you know if you're a ToT person or a Small World person?

My Dad likes to remind us, that during our first WDW trip we didn't break open the Guidebook until we had checked into Dixie Landings. My Mom and I must have thought, we had been to DL a couple times, it couldn't be that different. The only thing that "cost" us was there was no availability at King Stephan's. In 2001, we came with my Mom's family (4 sets of aunts & uncles, and my Grandma). Only 2 of them had ever been to a Disney park (WDW, right after Epcot opened) but the rest were frequent visitors to Great America in Gurnee. This was going to be like that, but with Mickey Mouse instead of Bugs Bunny walking around, right? The first night we were eating at Chef Mickey's and one set of aunts and uncles wanted to know what we would do in the rain. They couldn't wrap their heads around the idea that many of Disney's rides were in buildings. They knew the schedule, they could name the rides we were going to do first, but that still didn't mean they could process how different WDW would be than GreatAmerica. Over on the DIS, someone asked about 4 yr olds on ToT, and in the myriad of responses of how some kids were perfectly fine, and others not, one person mentioned that their 4 yr old couldn't even handle the PeopleMover. How do you plan which rides to select when you don't know what type of ride tolerance your kids will have, and there's no way to predict, because you don't even know what the ride will be like?

Is it now going to be a requirement, that first times have to completely spoil themselves via YouTube videos in order to guess which things they'll like, which things their kids won't freak out about? In the old days, if you messed up, you could change things on the fly. But today, it requires sacrificing something you may have spent hours setting up in the first place, in the hopes that what you realize you want once you get there is still available.

 

[AEfx]

Is it now going to be a requirement, that first times have to completely spoil themselves via YouTube videos in order to guess which things they'll like, which things their kids won't freak out about? In the old days, if you messed up, you could change things on the fly. But today, it requires sacrificing something you may have spent hours setting up in the first place, in the hopes that what you realize you want once you get there is still available.

That's just one way where it makes no sense, which is does not on so many levels.

The folks you see saying it's a good idea, as you said, are those who already know the parks like the back of their hand, all the various things that one knows just for sake of going to a website like this to begin with.

To further your example, that's why FP+ is so padded with attractions that simply don't need it - to trick those other folks into thinking they need one for all kinds of stuff they don't. Sure, if you are someone who visits Disney websites regularly you know what the major rides are or not - but it cannot be expected for everyone to know that.

I have to laugh at the comments in this thread talking down to folks saying, "Oh, if you don't do your research, it's on you!" when they absolutely ignore that no one is saying otherwise - just that the AMOUNT of research and pre-planning has gotten completely out of control here.

As I've said before, tell someone in the real world about this system, about booking 5 minute rides months in advance, and they will laugh at you, once they actually believe you that such a ridiculous notion exists.

It also leads to what I have found to be the base problem with this entirely - it caters to bad planners. Anyone who actually knows how to have a truly well-planned WDW experience knows that you CANNOT plan down to the minute like that - it's difficult enough just to do it with dining reservations. It's the worst kind of "we must move now to X so we can be at X before :53 past the hour..." thing that makes those folks unbearable to tour with.

Anyone who truly knows how to do it knows that you cannot plan like that because the world does not work that way, you have to have multiple choices as you go along, or you end up missing half of the spontaneous stuff that comes by. It also doesn't account for - well, you booked your FP+ for Splash Mountain for a certain day, so you are now tied to the MK that day - what if it's overcast and folks don't feel like getting wet? What if it's actually closed due to thunder/lightning? You've planned your whole day around it.

It just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, it's so misguided on so many levels - it's the poster child for IT project gone amuck.

 

[BigTxEars]

That's just one way where it makes no sense, which is does not on so many levels.

The folks you see saying it's a good idea, as you said, are those who already know the parks like the back of their hand, all the various things that one knows just for sake of going to a website like this to begin with.

To further your example, that's why FP+ is so padded with attractions that simply don't need it - to trick those other folks into thinking they need one for all kinds of stuff they don't. Sure, if you are someone who visits Disney websites regularly you know what the major rides are or not - but it cannot be expected for everyone to know that.

I have to laugh at the comments in this thread talking down to folks saying, "Oh, if you don't do your research, it's on you!" when they absolutely ignore that no one is saying otherwise - just that the AMOUNT of research and pre-planning has gotten completely out of control here.

As I've said before, tell someone in the real world about this system, about booking 5 minute rides months in advance, and they will laugh at you, once they actually believe you that such a ridiculous notion exists.

It also leads to what I have found to be the base problem with this entirely - it caters to bad planners. Anyone who actually knows how to have a truly well-planned WDW experience knows that you CANNOT plan down to the minute like that - it's difficult enough just to do it with dining reservations. It's the worst kind of "we must move now to X so we can be at X before :53 past the hour..." thing that makes those folks unbearable to tour with.

Anyone who truly knows how to do it knows that you cannot plan like that because the world does not work that way, you have to have multiple choices as you go along, or you end up missing half of the spontaneous stuff that comes by. It also doesn't account for - well, you booked your FP+ for Splash Mountain for a certain day, so you are now tied to the MK that day - what if it's overcast and folks don't feel like getting wet? What if it's actually closed due to thunder/lightning? You've planned your whole day around it.

It just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, it's so misguided on so many levels - it's the poster child for IT project gone amuck.

It might not to you but to us we like FP+ and what it adds to our trips. It makes sense and adds to the way we enjoy the parks. It's not perfect but it's much better than the ole run and gun FP system for us.

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

I personally rile for NextGen because we enjoy it and think it makes our trip better. I would guess that is the same reason you don't care for it, you think it makes your trip worse.

That, and the small tidbit that is, if we didn't have this sunk cost to deal with we MIGHT have gotten some actual nice things to gather round. Instead we are treated to a year-round supply of rubber bands no one asked for or needed and some unkept promises about "amazing", Next GenEration interactive experiences.

 

[BigTxEars]

That, and the small tidbit that is, if we didn't have this sunk cost to deal with we MIGHT have gotten some actual nice things to gather round. Instead we are treated to a year-round supply of rubber bands no one asked for or needed and some unkept promises about "amazing", Next GenEration interactive experiences.

I know they add to our trip. I can walk around all week (and I have) and everything I need is on that rubber band. Everything. That add to the immersion and the relaxation that I look for on a trip to WDW. I would rather have that than two to three new rides. The immersion/relaxation the MBs give us last all week long, 2-3 new rides would give well less than an hour of direct entertainment the entire week we were there. Now we travel slow at WDW by design, not in a hurry at all so that might be why I look at it this way. If I were an open to close aggressive ride rider then I might see it differently.

For example one thing we love is how FP+ works with ADRs, In the old FP system you never knew until the day of if your paper FP was going to collide with your ADRs, now we know well in advance and can plan that. Much cooler that way for us. Plus I am way to old to be running / racing others to a FP machine to try and get a FP

 

[Mike S]

I know they add to our trip. I can walk around all week (and I have) and everything I need is on that rubber band. Everything. That add to the immersion and the relaxation that I look for on a trip to WDW. I would rather have that than two to three new rides. The immersion/relaxation the MBs give us last all week long, 2-3 new rides would give well less than an hour of direct entertainment the entire week we were there. Now we travel slow at WDW by design, not in a hurry at all so that might be why I look at it this way. If I were an open to close aggressive ride rider then I might see it differently.

For example one thing we love is how FP+ works with ADRs, In the old FP system you never knew until the day of if your paper FP was going to collide with your ADRs, now we know well in advance and can plan that. Much cooler that way for us. Plus I am way to old to be running / racing others to a FP machine to try and get a FP

I can respect your opinion of Magic Bands as I haven't had any real problems with them either, but they aren't immersive. This is immersive.

Magic Bands are a tool for visitors of WDW to use. Nothing more, nothing less. And that is nothing against the system.

 

[Adam N]

My experiences have been positive. Granted, I'm sure a lot of people would describe me as a lifestyler but whatever. I haven't had the problems some people have had. I have seen a big family of 20 told they can't do TSMM altogether, but right after my bf and I got fp for them. So if you're traveling with a large party, I'm sure it's way more frustrating. It bums me out that there are still problems with the system but it seems like they keep working to fix those problems. I mean compare the complaints from this time last year to now. A huge switch in infrastructure like this is going to take a while.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I can respect your opinion of Magic Bands as I haven't had any real problems with them either, but they aren't immersive. This is immersive.
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Magic Bands are a tool for visitors of WDW to use. Nothing more, nothing less. And that is nothing against the sytem.

Very well said. The Magic Bands are intended to be a tool of convenience and they haven't fully succeeded in that.

 

[BigTxEars]

I can respect your opinion of Magic Bands as I haven't had any real problems with them either, but they aren't immersive. This is immersive.
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Magic Bands are a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. And that is nothing against the sytem.

Maybe not to you but they are to us. I can not walk around in my real life for a week and ride, eat, sleep, drink, shop and relax like I can at WDW with a magic rubber band taking care of everything "unfun" about those things. That is immersive to us. If fact beyond not being able to do so it in my real life I don't know of a single place other than WDW that offers that experience. I can only imagine if my kids were younger how cool and immersive the MBs would be then, a magic bracket that opens you hotel room, gets you into the park and onto rides and lets you get that stuffed Mickey at the store....thats pretty cool immersive stuff to a 8 year old for example

And the way it added ride pics automatically to our Memory Maker was pretty darn immersive as well.

Now I am all for other types of immersion as well, but I do like the MBs.

And speaking of DA at Universal..

FP+ would have prevented the need to run!

 

[Ariel1986]

I like to wake up naturally on my vacations, that's all part of the vacation for me- not having to get up early and having a leisurely morning. Getting up to an alarm to get to the park half asleep, to run around grabbing fastpasses so I can guarantee a ride on a popular attraction that day is not my idea of a nice time. Being able to schedule the rides I want to do for sure, for lunchtime onward on my last trip was great. Whatever time we got up or arrived at the park didn't matter, as we knew that we had our favourite and/or the most popular rides we wanted to do already booked and waiting for us. Then we could wonder around, try some other rides, people watch or whatever in the mean time. When those 3 rides were up we'd sometimes see if anything else was available if we fancied it. If not no worries. It was great.

In the last few trips I'd taken before FP+ I hadn't managed to go on Toy Story Mania at all, due to FP+ being completely gone or at a much later time in the day, along with the wait times being ridiculous, so it had been a good few years since I'd ridden. This time I got a ride in every visit to Hollywood Studios.

The ease of not having to rifle through my bag to find my purse/ticket/room key/fastpass ticket multiple times I found a plus too. Not needing a locker at the water parks because we didn't need to bring anything with us was another bonus.

I like the system, it worked for us and it was also flawless whilst we were there. I know this is not the case for everyone it seems, but to me, how it can make a vacation worse I just can't see- how is having everything (tickets, purse, room key) in one place worse? And if you don't like the ride reservation system- don't use it! Disney World is still there!

I've never been to Six Flags before, but have looked into it a couple of times when I knew we would be in the area of one- now, there system of various "fastpasses" (that were also an upcharge) seemed more complicated to me than FP+!
But still, as a "newbie" there when and if I go, I'll read up more on the system and the best one to use, and if I decide not to use one I'll accept that and use standby lines, knowing that perhaps I might not get to go on everything. I'm quite sure there are plenty of Disney newbies who would have this same mindset, and if they don't or do not research new places they are visiting, as others have stated, then they are in part to blame! Sometimes it seems people are making FP+ waaaaaay more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[BrerJon]

To further your example, that's why FP+ is so padded with attractions that simply don't need it - to trick those other folks into thinking they need one for all kinds of stuff they don't. Sure, if you are someone who visits Disney websites regularly you know what the major rides are or not - but it cannot be expected for everyone to know that.

And you can't even just ask people 'what are the big rides?', because tastes are subjective. Sure, many people say 'just do Test Track and Soarin' at Epcot, but personally I'd much rather Living with the Land and Universe of Energy, so you never know what a newbie's tastes will be.

It also leads to what I have found to be the base problem with this entirely - it caters to bad planners. Anyone who actually knows how to have a truly well-planned WDW experience knows that you CANNOT plan down to the minute like that - it's difficult enough just to do it with dining reservations.

Aaaah, you're on to something here. I've had trouble squaring how so many former park commandos seem to be against the new system. I'm one of them - not for WDW any more since I've done the parks so many times, but in a new park, or one I may only get to once a decade, I'll plan it thoroughly, get there for opening, hit the big rides first before the crowds etc... I actually love the process.

But if you know how easy it is to hit all the rides, shows and have a very relaxing day with only a little effort and an alarm clock, the new system means you get to experience less than you did before and feels *far less* efficient.

So yes, it rewards bad planners, works well for those who want to hit specific rides without getting up early, annoys good planners, and just bewilders those who don't like to plan at all.

 

[Belowthesurface]

Imagine if we didn't have this waste of time and money to debate over.

Disney has got a lot of you wrapped up in this nonsense that was not made to benefit you.

Wake up! You could have it so much better. Go to Disneyland and you will understand how a park should treat people.

 

[BigTxEars]

And you can't even just ask people 'what are the big rides?', because tastes are subjective. Sure, many people say 'just do Test Track and Soarin' at Epcot, but personally I'd much rather Living with the Land and Universe of Energy, so you never know what a newbie's tastes will be.



Aaaah, you're on to something here. I've had trouble squaring how so many former park commandos seem to be against the new system. I'm one of them - not for WDW any more since I've done the parks so many times, but in a new park, or one I may only get to once a decade, I'll plan it thoroughly, get there for opening, hit the big rides first before the crowds etc... I actually love the process.

But if you know how easy it is to hit all the rides, shows and have a very relaxing day with only a little effort and an alarm clock, the new system means you get to experience less than you did before and feels *far less* efficient.

So yes, it rewards bad planners, works well for those who want to hit specific rides without getting up early, annoys good planners, and just bewilders those who don't like to plan at all.

Getting up early sucks, I do that when I am not on vacation so count me into that crowd

But I am a good planner and I use FP+ to make that planning that much better. It takes the randomness out of the plans day to day for us. Randomness has hurt our plans in the past so I am glad to rid ourselves of it. FP+ still offers the flexibility to plan and then not do as opposed to not being able to plan as well under the old FP and then not doing because of that reduced ability to plan.

I have rushed a few meals at WDW to make a paper FP happen in the past. We go again in Jan of next year. I have my ADRs already and at 60 days out I will pick my FP+ based around those ADRs, so I can eat in peace. That is not rewarding a bad planner.

 

[BigTxEars]

Imagine if we didn't have this waste of time and money to debate over.

Disney has got a lot of you wrapped up in this nonsense that was not made to benefit you.

Wake up! You could have it so much better. Go to Disneyland and you will understand how a park should treat people.

I don't want to go to Disneyland, I want to go to WDW. It's a much better resort for us. No need to wake up, we know what we want.

 

[BrerJon]

In the last few trips I'd taken before FP+ I hadn't managed to go on Toy Story Mania at all, due to FP+ being completely gone or at a much later time in the day, along with the wait times being ridiculous, so it had been a good few years since I'd ridden. This time I got a ride in every visit to Hollywood Studios.

I can see how that would work well. I think if your main interest is one or two big rides, not trying to do lots of them and not wanting to get up early enough for the Fastpass scrum, then this is one case where the new system is beneficial.

But for others it doesn't - for example in the old system you could always ride TSMM on standby if passes were out. Now that meant a longer line, probably 60 minutes more on average, but now that standby lines are longer for everything, you're *still* waiting as long as if you'd just turned up to ride standby, it's just that wait is spread across different attractions.

But if you're not trying to hit everything, then sure it works. The problem with the system is that everyone has such different circumstances, group size, touring preferences, that although there are certain people it works great for, there are quite a few it doesn't, yet it has been universally imposed on everyone at great expense, in a period of historically low investment in the parks.