Former Disneyland annual passholders complain about lack of priority ticket access for parks’ return - OCR/SCNG

[el_super]

And at the end of the day, value is in the eyes of the one paying for it. What I may find a value (less crowds at a higher price) may not be a value to others which is fine at the end of the day. It's a bummer that Disney is pricing some people out but quite honestly the only way to make it a better overall experience would be to remove APs (or make them an absolute luxury OR remove monthly payments) and set a reasonable daily ticket price.

Yep. It's a classic conundrum. You can appeal to people who want access for the lowest possible price, or you can cater to people who want a premium experience and don't care about the price, but you can't really do both.

Disney is saying that the guest satisfaction is going up and people are spending more, when the parks are less crowded, so it seems that is the way to go. There are all kinds of operational challenges that this new model (which is really just the old model) will present that aren't really being discussed, but I think if Disney sticks to it, it will end up being better in the long run.

 

[chadwpalm]

Yep. It's a classic conundrum. You can appeal to people who want access for the lowest possible price, or you can cater to people who want a premium experience and don't care about the price, but you can't really do both.

It's similar to why table games on the strip in Vegas are more expensive than off-strip. I talked to one of the dealers and asked why this is, and she basically said in the kindest way possible...."It keeps the riff-raff out".

 

[Tamandua]

It's similar to why table games on the strip in Vegas are more expensive than off-strip. I talked to one of the dealers and asked why this is, and she basically said in the kindest way possible...."It keeps the riff-raff out".

We could maybe do with less fist fights in toon town. Is a high price much of a barrier anymore though? How many stimulus checks handed out in the last year have broken the riff-raff barrier in a lot of places?

 

[chadwpalm]

We could maybe do with less fist fights in toon town. Is a high price much of a barrier anymore though? How many stimulus checks handed out in the last year have broken the riff-raff barrier in a lot of places?

Not to get off-topic, but I went to Black Oak Casino in Tuolomne the weekend after the $1400 checks were distributed and I've never seen a casino more packed.

 

[AJFireman]

Disneyland isn't known for doing things like WDW. I don't foresee virtual queues here. If it's done like the Flex Pass, which is already a proven reservation system here on the west coast, it's a rolling 60 days ahead, not blocks of 60 days which renew when 60 days is up. As each day passes, a new day will open up that is 60 days ahead. You want to go August 4th? Then you stay up until midnight 61 days prior (or whatever time the days are released). Otherwise, you keep watch and hope reservations cancel and days open up sooner on the calendar. When I had the Flex Pass I saw some days fill up and then become available again, sometimes several times a day.

If a day is available, you click on it and your reservation will be held for the time it takes to finish the process or released if you cancel. Kind of like buying seats to an event on Ticketmaster. I may be wrong, but that's how I believe it will happen.

They just did a Virtual Queue or Online Waiting Room whatever you want to call it for Touch of Disney. I dont see them just letting everyone on the site at once it will crash as we know Disney Sites like to do.

I also dont see them designing a new system for reservations when the system at WDW already works especially if they have the limited IT staff on hand like some say they do. I understand the Flex pass system but some of the wording on the site says up to 60 days or more so I am curious how that might be handled if they will do like you say or maybe release weeks at a time. Currently the Calendar only goes out to June 30. Also today they just released having 2 boarding groups times one in the AM and second in the afternoon with all indications from the wording it will be the same way HS does obtaining a Boarding Group. Yes i agree in the past there was not a lot of similarities but I see more and more alignment of procedures with each Resort.

 

[chadwpalm]

They just did a Virtual Queue or Online Waiting Room whatever you want to call it for Touch of Disney. I dont see them just letting everyone on the site at once it will crash as we know Disney Sites like to do.

I also dont see them designing a new system for reservations when the system at WDW already works especially if they have the limited IT staff on hand like some say they do. I understand the Flex pass system but some of the wording on the site says up to 60 days or more so I am curious how that might be handled if they will do like you say or maybe release weeks at a time. Currently the Calendar only goes out to June 30. Also today they just released having 2 boarding groups times one in the AM and second in the afternoon with all indications from the wording it will be the same way HS does obtaining a Boarding Group. Yes i agree in the past there was not a lot of similarities but I see more and more alignment of procedures with each Resort.

Two pieces of information we know:

From the announcement in the other thread:

"The newly released pricing calendar shows what ticket tiers will be available on specific days over the next two months. The 60-day rolling calendar will reveal new dates and prices over time."

And on Disneyland's site:

• To accommodate as many types of ticket holders as possible, park reservations for select dates may be made available on a rolling basis.

Also as I just stated in that thread:

• Theme park reservations are limited and subject to availability; reservations are not guaranteed until a reservation is finalized.

So my assumption of the reservation being held when you start was incorrect. They are held when you complete the reservation. As far as a queue, that may happen. We won't know until it does.

Anyway, those are the official things we know so far.

 

[SuddenStorm]

I love Disneyland as much as the next guy, but this whole reservation process just seems confusing and frustrating to plan around. Especially if someone is planning on staying at a hotel for their trip.

If Mansion's updates are good, and Splash is in decent shape I'll make an effort to go. If not, I'll wait till after Avengers opens.

 

[VJ]

alternate headline: Former Disneyland Annual Passholders complain about lack of priority tickets despite being former Disneyland Annual Passholders and thus entitled to nothing.

 

[cmwade77]

Sure, but Disney would make more money from a dozen different families taking 3-day trips than a single family of APers making 3-dozen 1-day trips. Infrequent visitors tend to stay in the parks longer, which means consuming more food and drinks each day, and are more likely (per day) to buy merchandise to commemorate their special trip.

Assuming each family consists of 2 adults and 2 kids, here are some rough prices:

Infrequent Visitors:
3-day park hopper tickets: $355 x2 + $335 x2 = $1,380
2 meals per person per day: $15 x2 x4 x3 = $360
2 snacks per person per day: $4 x2 x4 x3 = $96
1-2 merchandise items per person: $50 x4 = $200
Subtotal for one family: $2,036
12 family total = $24,432

AP Family:
Signature APs: $1,149 x4 = $4,596
1 meal per person per day: $15 x1 x4 x36 = $2,160
1 snack per person per day: $4 x1 x4 x36 = $576
1-2 merchandise items per person, twice a year: $50 x2 x4 = $400
AP Family total = $7,732

Yes, the AP family would spend more over the course of a year than any one of the infrequent-visitor families, but Disney would bring in more than triple the money from the infrequent visitors. And given that the parks have been filled near capacity more than ever before, the way to make money is by targeting guests who will spend more, rather than simply trying to get bodies through the turnstile.

[Note: When including things like hotels and parking, infrequent visitors become even more desirable, as they pay more per person for the amount of impact they have on the resort infrastructure]

Chapek's quote is a little confusing, as "marginally more valuable" makes it sound like the difference is small, rather than clearly saying that the "profit margins" are far better on infrequent guests. Yes, it's harder to attract infrequent visitors (especially during less desirable times of the year/days of the week, where the AP program initially proved its value), but it's worth the extra work up front to get the massive difference in spending once they arrive.

After things level out, I don't doubt there will be some sort of program to encourage repeat visits from locals to help fill in the gaps, but I hope it will have different goals than simply getting bodies in the park, as was previously the case. Perhaps this will be a paradigm shift in who DLR sees as their bread-and-butter guests; for many years, the focus has been on APs, even though it's always been the infrequent visitors who let them keep the lights on.

Here is the problem with this calculation, the infrequent visitor will come once every 5 years on average. So that means the AP family will spend $38.660 on average over that same 5 year period. The difference is that money gets spread across all 5 years rather than at once.

Also, Disneyland is very much a locals park, not a tourist destination and with current restrictions that isn't going to change. So the comparison you need to make is with the local down the street that doesn't buy an annual pass to the people that do.

 

[cmwade77]

They went about it in a bad way.

They were silent on the subject for a long time, then claimed if you dont want a refund you could get an extension on your pass. People waited almost a year and then they said "just kidding, we're actually stopping all annual passes".

Basically it took me a year to get the unused portion of my AP money back that I couldve had much earlier if they hadn't lied by offering an "extension option" that they revoked.

They backed themselves into a corner by making their pass options so complicated, it was unfeasible for post-covid operation.

Furthermore, when I bought my Flex Pass I had the option to, and paid for the parking add on and was told to do so by the CM because I'd be "grandfathered in" as long as I maintained a pass.

I was only a 6 year pass-holder but feel like we did get the short end of the stick VS other theme parks.

This is precisely my point, other parks have done better with how they have handled this.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Here is the problem with this calculation, the infrequent visitor will come once every 5 years on average. So that means the AP family will spend $38.660 on average over that same 5 year period. The difference is that money gets spread across all 5 years rather than at once.

Also, Disneyland is very much a locals park, not a tourist destination and with current restrictions that isn't going to change. So the comparison you need to make is with the local down the street that doesn't buy an annual pass to the people that do.

Disneyland is very much a tourist destination and to truly believe that it is not is disingenuous.

The “locals park” thing is overblown.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Disneyland is very much a tourist destination and to truly believe that it is not is disingenuous.

The “locals park” thing is overblown.

Yes. And they’d like to make it even more of a destination. Even within the state, it is a destination. You can’t really pop down for a day trip from San Francisco.

 

[el_super]

Here is the problem with this calculation, the infrequent visitor will come once every 5 years on average. So that means the AP family will spend $38.660 on average over that same 5 year period. The difference is that money gets spread across all 5 years rather than at once.

And how much does the AP family cost Disney to serve over the course of that five years?

 

[Tamandua]

Disneyland is very much a tourist destination and to truly believe that it is not is disingenuous.

The “locals park” thing is overblown.

Perhaps not all APs are "locals", but 50% of attendance coming from APs is hardly overblown.

 

[ToTBellHop]

This conversation is ridiculous. It is obvious, in a given fiscal quarter (which is all Disney cares about), a guest staying in an area hotel will spend more than a local on a day trip. That doesn’t mean Disney doesn’t want the day trippers. It means they want to prioritize vacationers. It’s not an attack on anyone. It’s just a fact. Chapek isn’t thinking “but how much will they spend through 2026?” He’s thinking “who will spend the most in Q3?”

C’mon. Stop this nonsense.

 

[chadwpalm]

Here is the problem with this calculation, the infrequent visitor will come once every 5 years on average. So that means the AP family will spend $38.660 on average over that same 5 year period. The difference is that money gets spread across all 5 years rather than at once.

Also, Disneyland is very much a locals park, not a tourist destination and with current restrictions that isn't going to change. So the comparison you need to make is with the local down the street that doesn't buy an annual pass to the people that do.

I think the average period of visits is irrelevant. The true numbers would be what the average vacationer spends in a day vs. what an average AP spends in a day, also accounting for the cost of that day's entry. Does a day with 75% vacationers and 25% APs in the park make more or less money than a 25% vacationer and 75% AP? That's the real question.

You keep saying that Disneyland is a locals park as if that's just the way it is. Do you believe that with APs gone people throughout the country are not more inclined to reevaluate taking a vacation at the DLR knowing that it may be less crowded? The restrictions could change as early as June 15th allowing out-of-state visitors, so that excuse can't last forever. Disneyland was a locals park because Disney sold a million APs (many of them SoCal APs) thus making it a locals park, not because only people in SoCal like to go to Disneyland. I think this is an important point.

I really don't think the tens of thousands of people that were grandfathered into the SoCal Select pass paying less than $30 a month are inclined to go as often at full price. While you believe that may make the parks more empty due to only SoCal people liking Disneyland, I think once word gets out the parks are less crowded people from all over will want to have their turn, granted they don't feel the pricing is too expensive for them (which could end up being the case).

 

[chadwpalm]

Yes. And they’d like to make it even more of a destination. Even within the state, it is a destination. You can’t really pop down for a day trip from San Francisco.

Depends on your definition of "day trip". I live in the SF Bay Area and I've bookended a single day at Disneyland with travel days and two nights in a hotel many times.

I'm not sure if that's what you mean though. You obviously can't do the traveling and park stay all in one day unless you fly which adds much to the cost....or wait for the bullet train in the year 2560 or whenever it gets completed lol.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Depends on your definition of "day trip". I live in the SF Bay Area and I've bookended a single day at Disneyland with travel days and two nights in a hotel many times.

I'm not sure if that's what you mean though. You obviously can't do the traveling and park stay all in one day unless you fly which adds much to the cost....or wait for the bullet train in the year 2560 or whenever it gets completed lol.

I meant without hotel stay. I was saying this earlier—Anaheim-at-large wants more people in hotel rooms visiting the parks. And Disneyland supports that. Anyone staying overnight obviously injects more into the local economy than someone driving 40 minutes.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Yes. And they’d like to make it even more of a destination. Even within the state, it is a destination. You can’t really pop down for a day trip from San Francisco.

A day trip from San Francisco is actually possible with flights. Takes an hour or less to get down by plane.

Perhaps not all APs are "locals", but 50% of attendance coming from APs is hardly overblown.

I mentioned Disneyland not being a place that tourists visit, not AP attendance.

 

[Ismael Flores]

I wonder if Disney didn't consider doubling their capacity for the parks by creating a two tier day ticketing and still staying within required social distancing numbers..

1) open the parks gates at 8am close at 3pm.
2) re-open park gates again at 4pm and close at 11pm.

The hour between 3pm and 4pm would be used to make sure that first group has emptied out to maintain the required capacity for social distancing required.

A schedule like that would automatically double the amount of tickets available for reservation and double ticket revenue for each day.