Florida commission: Disney discriminated against autistic visitors

[Todd H]

We will be like you our upcoming trip in May. Our 6 year old's fears are getting substantially worse lately. It truly pains me to have to watch him suffer so when he is just so petrified of the outcome. Thanks for saying so eloquently what I haven't been able to find the words to say. Our experience with the GAC was similar to yours and we plan to try out the DAS as well.

We had problems with public restrooms as well. And now my son just refuses to use them. They say he uses them at school, but he comes home every day and the bathroom is always his first stop

Just know you're not alone, as I found out earlier today (thanks for the encouragement April ). I honestly thought my son was the only one that experienced "toilet terror" but it looks like it's more common than I thought. Glad that a few of us are able to have a civilized conversation. That's rare in these threads, as you've probably seen.

 

[arko]

Just know you're not alone, as I found out earlier today (thanks for the encouragement April ). I honestly thought my son was the only one that experienced "toilet terror" but it looks like it's more common than I thought. Glad that a few of us are able to have a civilized conversation. That's rare in these threads, as you've probably seen.

we had theater terror, would not foot into a movie theater for a year, had to go to a drive in and those are hard to come by. And it was all of a sudden as he had been fine going into them before.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I'd still like to require a Dr's or therapist's note but it's not strictly necessary because providing this accomodation does not take away a physical resource like HCAP parking spots where a abuser actively denies a truly disabled person's accomodation because there are only N spots not N+X.

You cant require that without changing the laws.

Personally, i wish there was a way to do it in order to weed out the pieces of garbage who abuse the system.

 

[ToInfinityAndBeyond]

I'd still like to require a Dr's or therapist's note but it's not strictly necessary because providing this accomodation does not take away a physical resource like HCAP parking spots where a abuser actively denies a truly disabled person's accomodation because there are only N spots not N+X.

There's no way this would ever fly. It would be a clear sign of discrimination under the ADA and also conflict with HIPAA. There are probably other local laws and rules that it would violate. Talk about one heck of a class-action lawsuit...

(Side note: placards for handicap parking spaces and other government-issue items are not subject to those laws for different reasons, but I just want to make that clear before that comes back up.)

 

[GrumpyFan]

You cant require that without changing the laws.

Personally, i wish there was a way to do it in order to weed out the pieces of garbage who abuse the system.

That's part of the complication that Disney and other public facilities face, how to provide equal access to EVERYBODY with almost every conceivable kind of disability, and somehow prevent the low life scumbags in society from taking advantage of the service and ruining it for those who truly need it. Honestly, I would love to get my hands on some of the people who have taken advantage of this and, well, you know... I'm sure there would be a line.

 

[arko]

There's no way this would ever fly. It would be a clear sign of discrimination under the ADA and also conflict with HIPAA. There are probably other local laws and rules that it would violate. Talk about one heck of a class-action lawsuit...

(Side note: placards for handicap parking spaces and other government-issue items are not subject to those laws for different reasons, but I just want to make that clear before that comes back up.)

Actually the ADA has several areas where proof of disability can be asked for when the disability is not apparent. Employers can ask for proof if you ask them to spend money on accomodating a disability. A good example is a special chair. In respect to housing issues if you are again asking them to make modifications they can ask for proof.
Also HIPAA does not apply here as the doctor is not giving out your medical info without your knowledge.

 

[flynnibus]

There's no way this would ever fly. It would be a clear sign of discrimination under the ADA and also conflict with HIPAA.

You can drop HIPPA from all of these discussions - it has zero relevancy for public accommodation and disabilities. HIPPA is scoped for the medical industry - nothing more.

 

[flynnibus]

Actually the ADA has several areas where proof of disability can be asked for when the disability is not apparent. Employers can ask for proof if you ask them to spend money on accomodating a disability. A good example is a special chair. In respect to housing issues if you are again asking them to make modifications they can ask for proof.

Ok... but the part of ADA *relevant for this discussion* of public accommodations - your examples do not apply. Those are examples from different Title areas of ADA. A better example if you want that is actually applicable to this scope of the law (ADA Title III) .. is the burden of proof they allow for "Other power-driven mobility device"

There are also other specific examples where guidance is given... but the general rule of thumb is 'no burden of proof' and there are only specific examples where there are exceptions. But even those at times are floppy and lack real concise boundaries.

The general rule of thumb is... no challenging, no proof required. Tell me your limitation and we will accommodate you within reason.

 

[jaklgreen]

Are people with other medical issues able to get a DAS or just the autistic? I am talking about medical issues(not mobility) that makes a person unable to wait in the longer lines. Specifically someone who needs the restroom more frequently that waiting in a line longer then 20 minutes is impossible.

 

[awilliams4]

I'll just add this, with the huge spike in disability claims (which I suspect should somewhat mirror the population of those that will need something like a GAC/DAS going forward) that continues in this country, it is just a matter of time where the math just won't add up anymore. In the future, if/when xx% of WDW visitors for example request/rate a GAC, the business model will just quit working. When it comes to a point where those that don't have GAC access have to wait longer and longer for the ever increasing population of those that do, they will just quit going.

All the opinions on this thread will be moot at that point. Just like the debt, just like federal entitlements programs that will go bust, things like the GAC program will only work if only a certain percentage of guests or lower are using it. There is a breaking point. And if you google things like disabilities or SSN disability claims for example (to get an idea of what may also be happening for the demand for GAC at Disney) you will see that the numbers are sky rocketing at a pace that is not sustainable.

If half the WDW visitors had a need for GAC and WDW loses this suit, they would not be able to maintain their business model because the other half would quit waiting in lines that are significantly longer due to the other half that need a different set of rules.

At that point, whether you like it or not, those without disabilities are the ones being discriminated against because they cannot pay enough taxes, wait in line long enough, etc to accommodate it.

We may not be there yet but recent history suggests that we will get to that point.

This is not an attack on any position, just a reality check.

Then some of the posts on this thread like 'I rate an enjoyable experience too because the law requires my disabilities to be accommodated' really won't matter.

You can't for example have 5 people on SSN for every 1 worker regardless if those 5 people are all 67 or older and all qualify, it just won't work anymore.

 

[Tom Morrow]

The REAL question is this: does this affect you in any real tangible way? Unless you are someone who is dealing with a disability, the answer is probably not. The real solution to your problems is to stop worrying about other people and enjoy your time at WDW.

The abuse of the GAC was so widespread at both WDW and DL that it reached a point where 1/5th of everyone riding major attractions entered using a GAC. So yes, at that point it does impact everyone because it forces everyone to wait longer, even people who legitimately need the assistance.

 

[arko]

Are people with other medical issues able to get a DAS or just the autistic? I am talking about medical issues(not mobility) that makes a person unable to wait in the longer lines. Specifically someone who needs the restroom more frequently that waiting in a line longer then 20 minutes is impossible.

Who will be eligible for a Disability Access Service Card?
Disney Parks’ goal is to accommodate guests who aren’t able to wait in a conventional queue environment due to a disability (including non-apparent disabilities). Guests should visit Guest Relations to discuss their assistance needs.

The DAS does not specify any specific disability, just that the disability would prevent you from waiting in line.

 

[jmmc]

I figure that it all boils down to this: People with no conscience ruined the helpful policies for those in need by lying and abusing them. And there is basically no way to counteract that. The focus here should not be to argue that the disabled person isn't being taught to live in the real world (which is a lack of understanding what is the reality of autism), but that regulations should be modified in some other way to prevent the abuse from a group of scummy people.

If I were to try to come up with any way to balance things with the original policy is to allow no more than two additional people to accompany the disabled person.

 

[Matt_Black]

Personally, I'm of the philosophy that says, "Be the change you wish to see in the world." Let us all strive to be better examples... by forming vigilante mobs to hunt down those cretins who abuse the policy and giving them good swift whacks on the bottom with wiffle bats! Feel the hollow plastic sting of justice! Fear me! FEAR ME!!!

 

[ToInfinityAndBeyond]

You can drop HIPPA from all of these discussions - it has zero relevancy for public accommodation and disabilities. HIPPA is scoped for the medical industry - nothing more.

Well, yes and no. The ADA is the main piece of legislation that would be infringed by forcing people to prove their disability, but the commenter mentioned doctor's notes and/or medical records. Whenever medical records come in to play, so does HIPAA. While Disney is not directly affected by HIPAA in regards to providing a service to consumers, they cannot request medical records. I mentioned earlier that there are probably other Right to Privacy laws, statutes, and regulations being infringed in that example.

 

[ToInfinityAndBeyond]

The abuse of the GAC was so widespread at both WDW and DL that it reached a point where 1/5th of everyone riding major attractions entered using a GAC. So yes, at that point it does impact everyone because it forces everyone to wait longer, even people who legitimately need the assistance.

I guess my point is you're not going to stop the rule breakers by trying to make things more difficult for people who actually do have disabilities. The sad truth is that these people take advantage of a system that has few checks and balances. I certainly share your frustration.

DAS seems to work pretty well. It provides access for those who cannot wait in line while keeping it "fair" for everyone else. I don't think these people have a good case against Disney, but that doesn't mean that we won't see some changes. It looks like they're fighting it (which will stop the gravy train real fast), which gives me some hope. When it comes to disabilities and discrimination, it can go either way.

 

[flynnibus]

Whenever medical records come in to play, so does HIPAA

Incorrect

HIPPA's privacy and security requirements apply only to 'covered entities' - it is NOT some general purpose law making medical records private. Covered entities are basically insurance companies, medical providers, and the intermediates who deal with handling info collected by those. As a theme park operator, Disney is none of those things except in very narrow examples.

HIPPA has no applicability here at all except to prevent the scenario like having Disney calling providers or insurance to inquire/seek info from those sources who are forbidden from disclosing your info without consent by HIPPA.

 

[ToInfinityAndBeyond]

it is NOT some general purpose law making medical records private.

I think we're splitting hairs here. HIPAA is relevant because medical records are regulated by HIPAA. It's relevant because I'm skipping a few steps and thinking about the potential lawsuit, where HIPAA would certainly be brought into the mix as a grounds to establish discrimination and support what the defendant would claim is unreasonable.

And while you can't file for a private cause of action under HIPAA if a non-covered entity asks for your medical records, HIPAA still protects you. The Privacy Rule is meant to establish a national standard. No entity (save for covered entities and the government) is ever going to have a right to your medical records, except for you.

HIPPA has no applicability here at all except to prevent the scenario like having Disney calling providers or insurance to inquire/seek info from those sources who are forbidden from disclosing your info without consent by HIPPA.

When someone asks for your medical records, though they are asking YOU, they're actually asking to do this very thing. They cannot force you to provide consent and you are not the steward of your medical records. That is why the rules apply to what HIPAA names as covered entities.

Anyways, again, I think we're splitting hairs because I do not think you disagree with me that a rule requiring people to provide some sort of proof of a disability in order to obtain a service is not enforceable.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't have time to break this down point by point again. Hippa is regulation for a specific industry only. It is not applied to anything to doing with your medical information anywhere.

The problem here is discriminatory results which is covered by the ada. Each state has different privacy laws in what people can require or not... But hippa does not apply in these situations. Disney as a theme park operator is not a covered entity and hippa does not do anything in preventing someone from wanting your info. Hippa is about secure storage and no disclosure without consent. Not no disclosure period

 

[AngieMHF]

Hi my name is Angela and I have a son with ADHD. It is difficult for him to wait the lines in Disney and he gets very anxious. I also work with kids from 3 years to 11 years old with autism. We have had our fair share of students afraid of the loud noises in the public bathrooms. We have found putting strong headphones on them before entering triuely alliviates that discomfort they feel. We do accompany them to give them a sense of security. In the long run they have overcome these fears. So it is a shred of hope. I do want to say I admire all the parents of children with autism. Especially those triuely dedicated to their child's wellbeing like yourselves. It is a hard job to do but all worth while. I hope and pray you have a wonderful vacation!