Florida commission: Disney discriminated against autistic visitors

[ford91exploder]

It is also unfortunate that there will also always be those who will take advantage of any policy, situation, rule or law and try to use it for their own advantage. For them, those who play by the rules are just poor dumb schmucks who don't know any better.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^ 1000 Times over and that is the root of the current problem at WDW (and my state where rampant abuse of HCAP plates is a real problem)

When I see a person hobbling up to a store on a walker after parking in the 'regular' parking area (with HCAP plates), while the HCAP spots are filled with expensive cars whose operators exhibit no apparent disability it makes my blood boil.

Took care of my grandmother for 15 years, We found ourselves in that situation MANY times.

 

[MichWolv]

no apparent disability

You should be angry at those who abuse, as should we all. But don't confuse "no apparent disability" with "no disability".

it makes my blood boil.

Boiling blood sounds like a disability. You should get a handicap parking permit.

 

[ILOVEDISNEY]

Let's look at the facts about Autism. It's mostly inherited and boys are 4 to 5 times more likely to be diagnosed as autistic compared to girls. Depending on what symptoms are exhibited by the person his or her behavior could be considered normal, or abnormal depending on the situation. There is no cure, but depending on the symptoms most autistic persons will live near normal lives, while others will need lifetime care. Of course, who pays for this care is subject to debate.

The commission is just opening a can of worms. If the courts rule for the parents every other group of disabled or handicapped persons will have cause to sue Disney. This could be the beginning of the end of Disney parks.

Food for thought: At the turn of the 20th Century, which were believed to be idyllic times by certain dreamers, 25% of children in the United States lived in orphanages.

 

[ToInfinityAndBeyond]

The REAL question is this: does this affect you in any real tangible way? Unless you are someone who is dealing with a disability, the answer is probably not. The real solution to your problems is to stop worrying about other people and enjoy your time at WDW.

This could be the beginning of the end of Disney parks.

That may be a wild exaggeration.

 

[ford91exploder]

You should be angry at those who abuse, as should we all. But don't confuse "no apparent disability" with "no disability".


Boiling blood sounds like a disability. You should get a handicap parking permit.

The point of the HCAP spot is for the MOBILITY impaired, And at the time my Grandmother who had friends who bragged about getting a HCAP plate for things like 'anxiety disorders' Sorry up here probably 4 out of 10 HCAP plates are legitimate.

 

[EpcoTim]

The REAL question is this: does this affect you in any real tangible way? Unless you are someone who is dealing with a disability, the answer is probably not. The real solution to your problems is to stop worrying about other people and enjoy your time at WDW.



That may be a wild exaggeration.

Your worrying over his worries is very sweet.

 

[raymusiccity]

This entire issue is a "on the one hand" and "on the other hand" arguement. It is a sad situation because no matter what the courts eventually decide, some will be unhappy or angry with the decision.

Most people have compassion for those with special needs and want them to be able to enjoy the parks. Unfortunately, or perhaps realistically, they also feel that maybe the special need person or parent may have to realize that there are things they simply cannot do depending on the disability.

It is also unfortunate that there will also always be those who will take advantage of any policy, situation, rule or law and try to use it for their own advantage. For them, those who play by the rules are just poor dumb schmucks who don't know any better.

As usual, the 'satisfied' individuals are the families and attorneys sharing in the $13 MILLION pot at the end of each rainbow.

"The commission is the state enforcement agency for the Florida Civil Rights Act, similar to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission on the federal level. According to the commission’s website, it has investigated and closed more than 74,000 cases and has negotiated close to $13 million in settlement amounts for more than 1,500 people through its mediation services."

 

[wgdan]

I cannot understand the animiosity toward children who are truly disabled and need a basic accommodation at theme parks. Disney, the fakers, and the rich who pay disabled people to go to the parks with them, and not these families, are responsible for the old system's problems. The first and foremost issue is that they should under no circumstances rent wheelchairs to guests. If someone needs a wheelchair or uses one, they have one already. If someone gets hurt or overcome by the heat at the parks, call the EMTs. Next, what most of you on this forum do not understand is that the new system requires people who are truly disabled to take an extra step that the rest of us who are not disabled do not have to take-- the ill-advised reservation. How would you like to have to make a reservation at every ride, get there on time, and then wait again at the line which has formed at the Fast Pass entrance. Disabled guests do not get immediate access to rides and they have never been guaranteed that by Disney or any other theme park. What Universal does so well is allow their employees to use their discretion at times when a severely handicapped child is attending the parks with their families. These families still wait, but they do not have to make these reservations that no one else has to make in the entire park. The rest of us can just fast pass what we want and enjoy each other's company while we wait online for the rides. Now imagine that your child is paralyzed and cannot walk. Even when you wait along with everyone else, you get to the front of the ride and wait again for the accessible vehicle. The fakers are jumping out of their rented wheelchairs because they can hop onto the ride while that child and his family have to wait for the next several rotations for the accessible car or ride vehicle. Perhaps that is what none of you see. Perhaps you didn't notice the father lifting his disabled child from the accessible vehicle, something he's done a dozen times that day, and so is it so terrible that they allow them to ride one more time without having to lift or transfer? Or perhaps you didn't notice that it is nearly impossible to see a parade with all of the fakers and electric buggies in the one or two small areas where wheelchairs can actually see something that is going on. Perhaps you are not aware how many times these families have been told that their reservation at the Disney hotels is not available because someone at the front desk gave away the roll in shower that a paralyzed child needs to someone who simply wanted a bigger bathroom or better view. Now what do they do? Before you decide that it is not their right, and a Disney vacation is not a necessity, perhaps you could show some compassion for these families whose children live everyday in bodies that we could not live five minutes in. Then, we can all say that this is nonsense and Disney deserves a break. Disney appears to not want the hassle of dealing with accommodations at the theme parks any longer with the new pass. What most of the people on this forum do not understand is that these families never asked them for anything or demanded anything from Disney but a reasonable accommodation that would provide equal access to the rides. It appears that is too much to ask from Disney. Many in the general public know nothing of what it is like to be a disabled child who has to live that way through no fault of his own.

 

[yensid67]

I think the DAS program will continuously be USED and ABUSED by those who do not need it and see it as a way to get on a ride 'quicker'. But I have a question, no bites please, its just a question...If the (truly) disabled family with a special needs child has to make a reservation to come back later, isn't that the same as a fastpass? Maybe if the reservation was to come back later for an immediate boarding with no waiting would be better? I don't know, I just think that Disney will eventually change the DAS program again.
I had always said that if they are using the program, why would it be discriminatory to have proof if the guest is using the DAS program? I would be glad to offer a doctor's note, but I guess those in our 'government' (loosely used) see that as discrimination. I just feel bad for those who truly need the DAS program, because even though they revamped it to its current state, there are going to be users and abusers!

 

[wgdan]

I think the DAS program will continuously be USED and ABUSED by those who do not need it and see it as a way to get on a ride 'quicker'. But I have a question, no ***** bites please, its just a question...If the (truly) disabled family with a special needs child has to make a reservation to come back later, isn't that the same as a fastpass? Maybe if the reservation was to come back later for an immediate boarding with no waiting would be better? I don't know, I just think that Disney will eventually change the DAS program again.
I had always said that if they are using the program, why would it be discriminatory to have proof if the guest is using the DAS program? I would be glad to offer a doctor's note, but I guess those in our 'government' (loosely used) see that as discrimination. I just feel bad for those who truly need the DAS program, because even though they revamped it to its current state, there are going to be users and abusers!

It is not the same because the disabled have to do it for every ride not just the most popular ones. Every ride becomes a reservation when the child is truly disabled. Don't think Disney will fix it. Not sure they have the will to do it because the last program was so abused.

 

[ToInfinityAndBeyond]

Your worrying over his worries is very sweet.

Thank you. Just looking out for the team.

"The commission is the state enforcement agency for the Florida Civil Rights Act, similar to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission on the federal level. According to the commission’s website, it has investigated and closed more than 74,000 cases and has negotiated close to $13 million in settlement amounts for more than 1,500 people through its mediation services."

Totally unrelated to the argument, but interesting: Based on those figures, they average $175.68/case. Of course, the average for all cases they claim to have received payment on is $8,666.67, which is closer to what you'd expect a settlement to be. That sounds decent, but your chances of getting a settlement are only 1 in 50. Attorneys usually don't charge you for their services if there isn't a settlement, but attorney's fees coming out of $8,666.67 are leaving you with about $6,500-$5,000. So hypothetically, you have a 1 in 50 chance to make $5,000-$8,500 at no cost to you except your time.

 

[danlb_2000]

I think the DAS program will continuously be USED and ABUSED by those who do not need it and see it as a way to get on a ride 'quicker'. But I have a question, no ***** bites please, its just a question...If the (truly) disabled family with a special needs child has to make a reservation to come back later, isn't that the same as a fastpass? Maybe if the reservation was to come back later for an immediate boarding with no waiting would be better? I don't know, I just think that Disney will eventually change the DAS program again.
I had always said that if they are using the program, why would it be discriminatory to have proof if the guest is using the DAS program? I would be glad to offer a doctor's note, but I guess those in our 'government' (loosely used) see that as discrimination. I just feel bad for those who truly need the DAS program, because even though they revamped it to its current state, there are going to be users and abusers!

One difference is that the return time is not based on Fastpass availability but by the length of the standby line. So even if there are not fastpasses left for the day for a ride, someone with DAS can still get a return time.

 

[Todd H]

Man I swore I would try and stay out of these threads...

I'm the father of an autistic son and was diagnosed with Aspergers a few years back myself. So over the years I've learned a good deal about autism.

For my son, his every day meltdowns aren't necessarily caused by impatience or not being taught how to wait. His meltdowns are brought on by fear. And just about anything can bring on absolute terror for him. No amount of consoling will do. His biggest fear at the moment is, strangely enough, loud toilets in bathrooms. I've seen him absolutely scream in terror, tears streaming down his face, because he was scared the toilet in the public bathroom was "too loud." He's literally refused to use bathrooms and has held it so much that he doubles over from the pain of needing to urinate. And it when and where it happens is completely random. I've seen him shake in fear about a bathroom that he's used many times before. He's seven and we've been working with him for years but I'm not sure it will ever completely go away. It's just the way his brain is wired.

When it comes to WDW he absolutely loves the place. It's made him a much more verbal child because of the time he has spent there. But going there is a challenge. Sometimes rides he's rode in the past will cause him to have a meltdown. We try to let him watch youtube videos of rides so that he will know what to expect. A good example is TGMR. He's watched the video and rode it numerous times but for some reason the last time we went he freaked out. He screamed non-stop, and was shaking in terror during the entire ride. We felt so bad, both for him and for the other riders, especially after he soiled his pants. All the while people are giving us that look. You know, the "why can't you control your child?" look. It makes you feel ashamed, even though you know there's nothing you could have done.

As for waiting in line, he can wait a few minutes but after that he starts to think that he's "never going to get to ride it ever again" (his words) and breaks down in tears. I could show him a paper Fastpass and tell him it's an appointment to ride it later but it does no good. Time is a difficult concept for him to grasp. We've managed to make it work the times we've gone but usually end up riding very few rides. The last time we went we finally caved and got a GAC and it was a godsend. He rode the few rides he likes with no meltdowns (good for both him and the others in the park). By the time lunch rolled around he was back at the hotel. At no time did we ride certain rides over and over and over. We may have used it 2-3 times a day at most. After lunch one of us would spend the rest of the day at the pool with him (he loves swimming) while the other went to the park to ride the rides we couldn't when he was with us. And, yes, we either got a Fastpass or waited in line. We never used the GAC for ourselves.

I hope that with time and therapy he will eventually overcome many of his issues. Of course, I myself still have problems with my Aspergers. Even though I have trained myself to make eye contact with others it fills me with a sense of dread deep in the pit of my stomach. I imagine it's the fear he feels except for him it is probably multiplied by 100. I even had a crowd related meltdown myself a few years ago. I ended up having to find a corner away from everyone. Once again, it's that sense of terror. It something of which you never rid yourself.

So we're headed back in June because he has been bugging me about going back. We'll try the DAS. We'll somehow make things work. Because when you have a child with autism, it's always about making things work for him. And if you see a couple of frazzled parents trying to console an adorable little boy having a meltdown, please think twice before giving them the judgmental "you can't control your child" look. You never know what that's child situation could be.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Man I swore I would try and stay out of these threads...

Thanks for jumping in and telling your story. I think it helps those of us who haven't had the exposure to these kinds of disabilities better understand the issues.

I would be curious to hear your experiences with DAS, after your trip.

 

[MichWolv]

His meltdowns are brought on by fear. And just about anything can bring on absolute terror for him. No amount of consoling will do.

When it comes to WDW he absolutely loves the place. It's made him a much more verbal child because of the time he has spent there. But going there is a challenge. Sometimes rides he's rode in the past will cause him to have a meltdown.

As for waiting in line, he can wait a few minutes but after that he starts to think that he's "never going to get to ride it ever again" (his words) and breaks down in tears.

make eye contact with others it fills with a sense of dread deep in the pit of my stomach.

Just quoted a few of the things that rang true for me from trips when my son was younger. We experienced much milder versions of each of these with him, but they were there, although we never did go for GAC. It has gotten much better, and I'm sure it will for your son as well.

 

[Todd H]

Thanks for jumping in and telling your story. I think it helps those of us who haven't had the exposure to these kinds of disabilities better understand the issues.

I would be curious to hear your experiences with DAS, after your trip.

No problem. Glad to give a window into the life of a child with autism. I didn't even mention the thousands of dollars a year we spend for medication/therapy/etc. that our insurance doesn't pay. Hope it brings better understanding for many of the posters here, although I'm sure there are a few who will still insist we're riding the "gravy train."

 

[arko]

I think the DAS program will continuously be USED and ABUSED by those who do not need it and see it as a way to get on a ride 'quicker'. But I have a question, no ***** bites please, its just a question...If the (truly) disabled family with a special needs child has to make a reservation to come back later, isn't that the same as a fastpass? Maybe if the reservation was to come back later for an immediate boarding with no waiting would be better? I don't know, I just think that Disney will eventually change the DAS program again.
I had always said that if they are using the program, why would it be discriminatory to have proof if the guest is using the DAS program? I would be glad to offer a doctor's note, but I guess those in our 'government' (loosely used) see that as discrimination. I just feel bad for those who truly need the DAS program, because even though they revamped it to its current state, there are going to be users and abusers!

The system is basically this
Go to Guest Services explain why you need
They take disabled person's picture with ipad mini
They give you a card that parent or guardian signs that basically states you are not lying to get this card
On the back of the card is grid for ride namem, return time and a stamp
Once you have the card, anyone in the party can go to the ride gate and present it to a CM
The CM will then look at the current standby time and give you a return that equals it minus 10 minutes (basically the time it would normally take you to get through FP line)
They will also stamp it with a coded stamp which I guess is an anti fraud measure.
Any time after your return time you can return to the FP line and you can the board via the FP line.

The limits are as follows
-You can only have one active DAS entry, so no running around getting a bunch of return times at one shot
-You must go to the ride itself to get the CM to mark your return time and stamp it. However the anyone in the party can do this
-Person identified on the card must be present to ride, this is verified by the picture on the card.

So this system is a lot more restrictive than the GAC and definitely cuts down on the infinite FP abuse that the GAC became so saddled with.
However it still has benefits, as it is basically an extra FP system that will even get you a FP for rides that have no more FP's. At DLR the GAC/DAS issue was much worse than at WDW due to the number of AP holders who learned how to game the system, and since DLR has a much larger AP population the problem hit critical levels when the new carsland opened up.In fact it did not take long for AP holders to learn how to abuse the DAS by getting multiple per family to use as almost unlimted free FP's, forging return times and stealing the coded stamps. DLR had to make the system electronic and tie it to ticket/AP media for all people referenced on it so that you could only be on one DAS at a time. WDW has not implemented these changes because these problems are more related to AP holders at DLR than your avereage WDW vacationer.

 

[arko]

No problem. Glad to give a window into the life of a child with autism. I didn't even mention the thousands of dollars a year we spend for medication/therapy/etc. that our insurance doesn't pay. Hope it brings better understanding for many of the posters here, although I'm sure there are a few who will still insist we're riding the "gravy train."

Foir us FP+ has been a great change as we are able to schedule 3 rides that we can plan and then only use the DAS on anything after, but I can run to the ride get the return time and by the time we are done the FP+ rides we can then use the DAS without worring about having to sit around and waiting somewhere. This works because we very rarely hit the big thrill rides that have the longest wait times.

 

[ford91exploder]

The system is basically this
Go to Guest Services explain why you need
They take disabled person's picture with ipad mini
They give you a card that parent or guardian signs that basically states you are not lying to get this card
On the back of the card is grid for ride namem, return time and a stamp
Once you have the card, anyone in the party can go to the ride gate and present it to a CM
The CM will then look at the current standby time and give you a return that equals it minus 10 minutes (basically the time it would normally take you to get through FP line)
They will also stamp it with a coded stamp which I guess is an anti fraud measure.
Any time after your return time you can return to the FP line and you can the board via the FP line.

The limits are as follows
-You can only have one active DAS entry, so no running around getting a bunch of return times at one shot
-You must go to the ride itself to get the CM to mark your return time and stamp it. However the anyone in the party can do this
-Person identified on the card must be present to ride, this is verified by the picture on the card.

So this system is a lot more restrictive than the GAC and definitely cuts down on the infinite FP abuse that the GAC became so saddled with.
However it still has benefits, as it is basically an extra FP system that will even get you a FP for rides that have no more FP's. At DLR the GAC/DAS issue was much worse than at WDW due to the number of AP holders who learned how to game the system, and since DLR has a much larger AP population the problem hit critical levels when the new carsland opened up.In fact it did not take long for AP holders to learn how to abuse the DAS by getting multiple per family to use as almost unlimted free FP's, forging return times and stealing the coded stamps. DLR had to make the system electronic and tie it to ticket/AP media for all people referenced on it so that you could only be on one DAS at a time. WDW has not implemented these changes because these problems are more related to AP holders at DLR than your avereage WDW vacationer.

Never understood why they did not tie DAS to the MB+ system, Issue RFID cards to DAS holder and party WITH pictures which act as immediate FP+ ie perhaps notify CM's with unique flash pattern perhaps alternating green/blue, These would have say 5-10 FP+ experiences per day - no times.

Part of the problem with the new DAS system is it's another example of WDW's current love of complexity which imposes too much of a load on the parents of a child especially children on the autism spectrum and the CM's as well.

I'd still like to require a Dr's or therapist's note but it's not strictly necessary because providing this accomodation does not take away a physical resource like HCAP parking spots where a abuser actively denies a truly disabled person's accomodation because there are only N spots not N+X.

 

[jlthomas81]

Man I swore I would try and stay out of these threads...

I'm the father of an autistic son and was diagnosed with Aspergers a few years back myself. So over the years I've learned a good deal about autism.

For my son, his every day meltdowns aren't necessarily caused by impatience or not being taught how to wait. His meltdowns are brought on by fear. And just about anything can bring on absolute terror for him. No amount of consoling will do. His biggest fear at the moment is, strangely enough, loud toilets in bathrooms. I've seen him absolutely scream in terror, tears streaming down his face, because he was scared the toilet in the public bathroom was "too loud." He's literally refused to use bathrooms and has held it so much that he doubles over from the pain of needing to urinate. And it when and where it happens is completely random. I've seen him shake in fear about a bathroom that he's used many times before. He's seven and we've been working with him for years but I'm not sure it will ever completely go away. It's just the way his brain is wired.

When it comes to WDW he absolutely loves the place. It's made him a much more verbal child because of the time he has spent there. But going there is a challenge. Sometimes rides he's rode in the past will cause him to have a meltdown. We try to let him watch youtube videos of rides so that he will know what to expect. A good example is TGMR. He's watched the video and rode it numerous times but for some reason the last time we went he freaked out. He screamed non-stop, and was shaking in terror during the entire ride. We felt so bad, both for him and for the other riders, especially after he soiled his pants. All the while people are giving us that look. You know, the "why can't you control your child?" look. It makes you feel ashamed, even though you know there's nothing you could have done.

As for waiting in line, he can wait a few minutes but after that he starts to think that he's "never going to get to ride it ever again" (his words) and breaks down in tears. I could show him a paper Fastpass and tell him it's an appointment to ride it later but it does no good. Time is a difficult concept for him to grasp. We've managed to make it work the times we've gone but usually end up riding very few rides. The last time we went we finally caved and got a GAC and it was a godsend. He rode the few rides he likes with no meltdowns (good for both him and the others in the park). By the time lunch rolled around he was back at the hotel. At no time did we ride certain rides over and over and over. We may have used it 2-3 times a day at most. After lunch one of us would spend the rest of the day at the pool with him (he loves swimming) while the other went to the park to ride the rides we couldn't when he was with us. And, yes, we either got a Fastpass or waited in line. We never used the GAC for ourselves.

I hope that with time and therapy he will eventually overcome many of his issues. Of course, I myself still have problems with my Aspergers. Even though I have trained myself to make eye contact with others it fills me with a sense of dread deep in the pit of my stomach. I imagine it's the fear he feels except for him it is probably multiplied by 100. I even had a crowd related meltdown myself a few years ago. I ended up having to find a corner away from everyone. Once again, it's that sense of terror. It something of which you never rid yourself.

So we're headed back in June because he has been bugging me about going back. We'll try the DAS. We'll somehow make things work. Because when you have a child with autism, it's always about making things work for him. And if you see a couple of frazzled parents trying to console an adorable little boy having a meltdown, please think twice before giving them the judgmental "you can't control your child" look. You never know what that's child situation could be.

We will be like you our upcoming trip in May. Our 6 year old's fears are getting substantially worse lately. It truly pains me to have to watch him suffer so when he is just so petrified of the outcome. Thanks for saying so eloquently what I haven't been able to find the words to say. Our experience with the GAC was similar to yours and we plan to try out the DAS as well.

We had problems with public restrooms as well. And now my son just refuses to use them. They say he uses them at school, but he comes home every day and the bathroom is always his first stop