Florida commission: Disney discriminated against autistic visitors

PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
ToInfinityAndBeyond said:
You're not entirely correct. It is not against the law to ask for a doctor's note. It is against the law for an employer to ask for a doctor's note (and in most cases medical records) for any reason other than to prove the need for a reasonable accommodation when a disability is not apparent, but enough about employment. That's for the EEOC to worry about.

However, you are absolutely correct that asking for a doctor's note to prove a disability in order to gain a service is grounds for a discrimination lawsuit under the ADA. In said lawsuit, the ADA, HIPAA, and other relevant state and local laws will be brought into the mix to show that this request is beyond reasonable. That is why you will not find a company who will ask for your medical records or a doctor's note, regardless of if you are handicapped. Just to be clear, I'm not taking about employment. That's an entirely different ball game.

One last time, I know that HIPAA does not directly forbid people from asking for medical records, but it is absolutely, 100% relevant in a hypothetical situation where records come into play, because in the (hypothetical) lawsuit, it will be used as grounds to prove discrimination and unreasonable standards.

For your amusement, here's a portion of the ADA:
"§ 36.201 General.
(a) Prohibition of discrimination. No individual shall be discriminated against on the basis of disability in the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any private entity who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation."

And:
"§ 36.202 Activities.
(a) Denial of participation. A public accommodation shall not subject an individual or class of individuals on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements, to a denial of the opportunity of the individual or class to participate in or benefit from the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation.

(b) Participation in unequal benefit. A public accommodation shall not afford an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements, with the opportunity to participate in or benefit from a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is not equal to that afforded to other individuals."

This part is relevant for the federal case and original post:
"(c) Separate benefit. A public accommodation shall not provide an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements with a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is different or separate from that provided to other individuals, unless such action is necessary to provide the individual or class of individuals with a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation, or other opportunity that is as effective as that provided to others."

Anyways, I'm still sure we don't disagree on the point. They're not going to start asking for medical records or doctor's notes.
Click to expand...

You're not entirely correct. You're assuming I care what you have to say.
 
B

BroganMc

Well-Known Member
One of the things that often gets repeatedly incorrectly on the discussion about this subject are the actual numbers of usage and abuse Disney found at WDW vs DL for GAC. At the time of the switch in 2013, it was reported Disney surveyed how many requests for GAC GR relations received at all parks compared to guests entering the parks over a 6 month period. DL had 30% usage/requests and WDW (across all 4 parks) had 1%. Even if half of that one percent were "abusers" that number is not significant enough to warrant a problem. The real incentive for Disney at WDW was their implementation of MyMagic+ and their plans to fill those FP+ lines. They are much more crowded now than they ever were in the GAC days.

Now I do use the DAS program and I also have a very visible disability. My reasons for asking for DAS are to assist me in managing my stamina and medical issues. FP+ rarely helps because it requires too much advance planning. I cannot predict accurately what my body will be up to on a specific hour days and weeks in advance. The GAC provided me the best accommodation because it allowed me to tour Disney at my schedule and achieve all the things I wanted in my window of opportunity for the day. That was usually 3-6 rides over a 6 hour period. Now I have do a lot more scheduling and encounter more issues. Disney is not as fun for me.

I went to Universal Studios this week and tried their Attraction Assistance Program. That worked much better for various reasons. With their 30 min cutoff there were more rides I could do without having to schedule. I only needed a Return Time for one ride and there were 4 other things to do nearby while I waited.

Also I had no issues obtaining an AAP. When I first asked for a DAS I was denied because the CM said I wasn't autistic. It had to go to a Manager consultation before that was straightened out. And even then, I had to advocate pretty fiercely to get them to recognize my needs beyond my wheelchair. They're training was to see wheelchairs as the fix for every ill. It was a most disagreeable experience. Now that I'm in the system I just present my old card to get issued a new one. I do encounter many other wheelchair bound folks who have had the same problems getting assistance. And no, you do not get issued Return Time tickets if you just show up at a ride with a wheelchair. That only happens at the few rides with steps in the queue, like Star Tours. Special assistance and alternate entries are offered much less to wheelies these days and usually only at boarding. That's why we wheelies are now waiting much longer than ever before.

To this day Disney has gotten far worse at handling those with mobility impairments. Wait times for ADA vehicles are not tracked accurately. I was in the wheelchair bus line at Kilamanjaro Safari for 40 mins a week ago when the Manager insisted that wait was only 5 mins. I had used a FP+ to enter the line but made a backstage exit as soon as I could then asked for a return time on my DAS so I could make my next FP+ window (Lion King show) and return later when it wasn't so crowded. The Manager out front didn't want to give me one because Standby was 10 mins. He had no idea the wheelchair demand was higher than regular boarding.

I do think Disney shafted a lot of disabled folks but it wasn't for the cheaters or autistic. It was to push their golden FP+ system. I'm still having a hard time figuring out how to use that to help me. Today my body is up for a few hours at EPCOT or DHS (we're staying at the Boardwalk today). I cannot get a FP+ for Soarin, Test Track or Toy Story... Three rides I can do. Those FP+ were booked long ago. I'll run the battery down on my chair chasing DAS Return Times for them so I'll be spending the day meandering around the countries with the family instead, I guess. Makes me wish I was going to Universal. Even if I needed a Return Time for everything, things are much closer and there are far more alternatives. That's not something I thought I'd ever say.

To the person who complained Universal doesn't allowed scooters in their lines, that's true but they do have alternate entrances for most things. Just ask and explain why you cannot handle being away from your wheels for long. There are many places where my dad could not take his scooter because it was too tight and narrow, but they still accommodated us. (Ironically places Disney expects all scooter users to navigate. Those who can't, get stuck and leave the rest of us trapped behind them. IASW and Nemo are nightmares for wheelies.)

To the person who complained that Haunted Manson is allowing wheelchair disabled guests to board, just wow. I usually only notice the nice and decent people in the world but sometimes I encounter the kind that make me realize why we have to have laws enforcing inclusion.
 
S

startraveler

Active Member
I think they will have to look at the issue of lines for ADA cars soon. Recently the line was so long at kilamanjaro that it went past the last check point and up the "hill" to where the fast pass line merged. The CMs didn't really know how to manage it. It was a mess with all the people trying to get out of the line with all the wheelchairs packed in. Many had spent over an hour and most of us had fp+. Same with buzz lightyear. Recently the wheelchair line backed out past the fp checkpoint. Another problem that was created with the new system nd ADA vehicles is jungle cruise. It used to be you just got in a line for the special car. Now you could arrive with no one in line and be given a return time based on the line for the regular boats. This is reportedly so my wait would be equal to those standing in the able bodied line. I get that. So I return say 30 minutes later to get in line behind a lot of wheelchairs waiting for the special boat (sometimes they do have two) and end up waiting the 30 minutes to make my wait fair and then another 45. I will do what I have to, but the new system has some I believe unintended problems in this area. Especially this - when give out fast pass + they need to ask if you need the special car.
 
jaklgreen

jaklgreen

Well-Known Member
I think Disney has a greater problem with disabled services because so many more disabled people go to WDW with their families then the other parks(US,etc). When there are a lot of able bodies people visiting then the waits go up. Same is true for disabled, if there are more disabled people that visit then they will have to wait longer for the rides, be it the lines or waiting for a specific wheelchair car etc. Short of making a disabled only park where everything is accessible, there will be issues. I feel for everyone. We all want to have a magical vacation with no lines or crowds and delicious food but that's not going to happen. I Think it is amazing that all types of people, with all kinds of limitations, are able to visit WDW with their families. I think back to when I was little(70s) and it was so hard(almost impossible) to go on vacations with someone who had medical issues. Even something like food allergies. The way Disney provides almost anything someone needs when it comes to food allergies is amazing. They are trying. I can not imagine how tough it is to try to provide for every single possible limitation and keep everyone happy, it seems impossible. I think as a society people are just jerks now, complain, complain, me me me. We all need to be thankful we can even go on vacation.
 
S

startraveler

Active Member
This. I am so thankful that I have Disney as a place I can go to and enjoy. Yes there are a lot of wheelchairs now days. The word is out that this is a doable vacation. Disney has always gone above and beyond for wheelchair users and certainly many of their accommodations do not work for me. That's okay. Just suggesting that a notation or something on the fast pass system that you need a special car or you need a special spot in a show can prevent someone with a fast pass from being turned away.
 
L

Leans Girl

New Member
danlb_2000 said:
Maybe something has changed, but scooters are allowed in Uni just not on any of the rides.
Click to expand...
also not allowed on any lines if you are in a motorize vehicle you must change to a regular wheel chair if you cannot use one you have to be accompanied so you must have some one with you.
 
B

BroganMc

Well-Known Member
The pRobles we are addressing is that Disney used to handle the issue of mobility disability and ADA vehicles well when they issued GAC and told those folks to go wait in the wheelchair line directly. Then you could manage your wait times and ability based on your needs. If the wheelchair line as very busy, you could come back later when they had time to process everyone. Sometimes you'd even be advised it was busy and best to come back later. Now your wait is manufactured to be longer based on the wait for people not even using your vehicle. This is the sort of thing that does not affect only those with disabilities that leave them able-bodied but impaired in another way. I expected those to be the lawsuits filed. If the largest is equal access and defines that to include wait times, then Disney admits it fails from their promo literature.
 
B

BroganMc

Well-Known Member
Leans Girl said:
also not allowed on any lines if you are in a motorize vehicle you must change to a regular wheel chair if you cannot use one you have to be accompanied so you must have some one with you.
Click to expand...
That is true for ET. Not for Despicable Me, Hogwarts Express, Shrek, MIB and Disaster. I took my power chair inside each and did the transfer at boarding.
 
L

Leans Girl

New Member
Blame the doctors who vouch for those people. I have disabled placard, I have PAD and very little blood flow to my extremeties. sometime I can walk well sometimes, most times I can't. I always have to lean on a shopping cart when shopping even if I am only picking up one item. But if someone watched me walk into a store they would swear that I was milking the system. My problem gets a little worse each year. I say this to say you can't judge someones disability or lack thereof by looking.
 
L

Leans Girl

New Member
BroganMc said:
One of the things that often gets repeatedly incorrectly on the discussion about this subject are the actual numbers of usage and abuse Disney found at WDW vs DL for GAC. At the time of the switch in 2013, it was reported Disney surveyed how many requests for GAC GR relations received at all parks compared to guests entering the parks over a 6 month period. DL had 30% usage/requests and WDW (across all 4 parks) had 1%. Even if half of that one percent were "abusers" that number is not significant enough to warrant a problem. The real incentive for Disney at WDW was their implementation of MyMagic+ and their plans to fill those FP+ lines. They are much more crowded now than they ever were in the GAC days.

Now I do use the DAS program and I also have a very visible disability. My reasons for asking for DAS are to assist me in managing my stamina and medical issues. FP+ rarely helps because it requires too much advance planning. I cannot predict accurately what my body will be up to on a specific hour days and weeks in advance. The GAC provided me the best accommodation because it allowed me to tour Disney at my schedule and achieve all the things I wanted in my window of opportunity for the day. That was usually 3-6 rides over a 6 hour period. Now I have do a lot more scheduling and encounter more issues. Disney is not as fun for me.

I went to Universal Studios this week and tried their Attraction Assistance Program. That worked much better for various reasons. With their 30 min cutoff there were more rides I could do without having to schedule. I only needed a Return Time for one ride and there were 4 other things to do nearby while I waited.

Also I had no issues obtaining an AAP. When I first asked for a DAS I was denied because the CM said I wasn't autistic. It had to go to a Manager consultation before that was straightened out. And even then, I had to advocate pretty fiercely to get them to recognize my needs beyond my wheelchair. They're training was to see wheelchairs as the fix for every ill. It was a most disagreeable experience. Now that I'm in the system I just present my old card to get issued a new one. I do encounter many other wheelchair bound folks who have had the same problems getting assistance. And no, you do not get issued Return Time tickets if you just show up at a ride with a wheelchair. That only happens at the few rides with steps in the queue, like Star Tours. Special assistance and alternate entries are offered much less to wheelies these days and usually only at boarding. That's why we wheelies are now waiting much longer than ever before.

To this day Disney has gotten far worse at handling those with mobility impairments. Wait times for ADA vehicles are not tracked accurately. I was in the wheelchair bus line at Kilamanjaro Safari for 40 mins a week ago when the Manager insisted that wait was only 5 mins. I had used a FP+ to enter the line but made a backstage exit as soon as I could then asked for a return time on my DAS so I could make my next FP+ window (Lion King show) and return later when it wasn't so crowded. The Manager out front didn't want to give me one because Standby was 10 mins. He had no idea the wheelchair demand was higher than regular boarding.

I do think Disney shafted a lot of disabled folks but it wasn't for the cheaters or autistic. It was to push their golden FP+ system. I'm still having a hard time figuring out how to use that to help me. Today my body is up for a few hours at EPCOT or DHS (we're staying at the Boardwalk today). I cannot get a FP+ for Soarin, Test Track or Toy Story... Three rides I can do. Those FP+ were booked long ago. I'll run the battery down on my chair chasing DAS Return Times for them so I'll be spending the day meandering around the countries with the family instead, I guess. Makes me wish I was going to Universal. Even if I needed a Return Time for everything, things are much closer and there are far more alternatives. That's not something I thought I'd ever say.

To the person who complained Universal doesn't allowed scooters in their lines, that's true but they do have alternate entrances for most things. Just ask and explain why you cannot handle being away from your wheels for long. There are many places where my dad could not take his scooter because it was too tight and narrow, but they still accommodated us. (Ironically places Disney expects all scooter users to navigate. Those who can't, get stuck and leave the rest of us trapped behind them. IASW and Nemo are nightmares for wheelies.)

To the person who complained that Haunted Manson is allowing wheelchair disabled guests to board, just wow. I usually only notice the nice and decent people in the world but sometimes I encounter the kind that make me realize why we have to have laws enforcing inclusion.
Click to expand...
 
L

Leans Girl

New Member
Maybe Universal has changed since I was there, it was a number of years ago, but at the time they offered no assistance, and I was unable to enjoy attractions alone. They did not at that time have a 30 minute wait system, perhaps my going ballistic had good results. I am going to WDW in August, but since there are many things I no longer do I will have to see how the new system works. the shame of it all is that the problem was at Disney Land, not Disney World but we all pay for it. Luckily most of the new rides have been made to accommodate wheel chairs and scooters.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom