Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
Let's not forget that not everyone in the family may have autism. What if they have multiple family members who would like to go? Do the just leave the autistic child with a sitter for a week?
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Florida commission: Disney discriminated against autistic visitors
- Thread starter PhotoDave219
- Start date
Let's not forget that not everyone in the family may have autism. What if they have multiple family members who would like to go? Do the just leave the autistic child with a sitter for a week?
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Congress recognized that people with extreme disabilities will not be able to participate in all aspects of life. Therefore, Congress established limits when it wrote ADA.
However, ADA does not prescribe exact limits for all situations.
The plaintiffs are not "being whiny butts about not getting their way every time". They are following the law, which establishes a means to seek relief if they believe their rights as protected by the law are being violated.
Disney believes it complies with the law and is defending itself accordingly.
The plaintiffs and Disney don't agree on the limits of ADA, and I am unaware of any existing case law or government regulation that clearly establishes a limit in this particular situation.
At least in part, this lawsuit is about defining that limit.
cat hem
Active Member
After reading this through it's clear that autism is misunderstood. I work with autistic children every day. Part of my job is helping de-sensitize children to their "triggers". Quite frankly the triggers can be anything! Light, food, sound, colors. For example we have one boy who has very limited foods he will eat. At home he only eats from a specific red bowl, only certain brands of foods. Our job is to try to expand his eating. We work with him daily to try small bits of different things. He's progressing but it's slow tedious work. Almost every child in the class LOVE the disney characters, Jake and the Neverland Pirates are the current fave. Why not take them to Disney? Usually before they go we show pictures of WDW, talk about waiting, we try to assist the family ahead of time. But! the one thing that does happen is the child knows about POC ride. That's the mission. That's all they want to ride. They know the ride is there, they want it now and they will re-ride that ride all day long if possible. So in a nutshell that's the problem. Most children understand the waiting game (probably better than most adults). So what is the best answer for the families. I think no matter what decisions are made someone, somewhere will be upset with the result. To be honest, my biggest peeve at DW is line jumpers (excuse me I need to meet my group along with the twenty people behind me) .... oh and those darn tour groups. (I could go on and on about that!)
Horizons '83
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
Thanks for the insight. Autism doesn't seem like a condition that can be blanketed, its a case by case basis.
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
Which is part of the problem. How do you define and provide reasonable accommodations for such a broad condition?
Its hard, its why you have some parents of autistic kids who are ok with the change to the DAS and some who aren't. Part of the problem with some of these kids is that had they only ever known the DAS they would be fine, but because the GAC was the established routine its very hard to get them to understand change.
mp2bill
Well-Known Member
The argument/excuse here is that it's the excitement and expectation of getting on a ride...so if someone with autism has to wait, that can cause "meltdown behaviors." As someone who has worked with both autistic children and adults (ranging from mild to severe), I find that argument to be a crutch. At the risk of sounding like a callous jerk, I believe that what we're really talking about here is poor parenting. If a "normal" three year old has a breakdown waiting in line for Dumbo, nobody bats an eye and there's no way to make a special accommodation (not that there should be). However, the argument that the plaintiffs made is that people with autism, because they are prone to "meltdown behaviors", deserve extra special accommodations.
IMHO, just like with non-autistic children, if you set the expectation that there will probably be a wait, they'll be able to deal with it. Too many people don't give autistic children (and adults) enough credit. They're able to understand/do/deal with a lot more than people think.
DisneyGirl3820
Well-Known Member
I'm usually pretty light-hearted on this board in general but this particular discussion upsets me so much. Some people commenting on this thread are truly insensitive. Analyzing the legality of this issue in a respectful way is one thing but saying ignorant remarks about disabled children is disgusting.
Suddenly these onlookers are the "experts" on children with special needs--if you don't have a child with disabilities and are the ones saying these unkind remarks, you should stick to worrying about how long POTC will be closed for refubishment and let respectful Disney enthusiasts who frequent the parks and real experts (the parents of children with disabilities), discuss this topic in a mature manner.
You would think that Disney fans, of all people, would have bigger hearts. Very sad.
Suddenly these onlookers are the "experts" on children with special needs--if you don't have a child with disabilities and are the ones saying these unkind remarks, you should stick to worrying about how long POTC will be closed for refubishment and let respectful Disney enthusiasts who frequent the parks and real experts (the parents of children with disabilities), discuss this topic in a mature manner.
You would think that Disney fans, of all people, would have bigger hearts. Very sad.
Thats for the courts to decide.
Because you know that there are reprehensible people who will abuse this.
Gomer
Well-Known Member
I agree mostly with what you are saying here. But as you should know, setting those expectations isn't as simple as telling the child. It requires repetition to establish a routine and understanding. Something that can sometimes only be achieved through experience.
I won't rehash my entire story here for a 15th time, but my son would be considered moderate to sever on the spectrum depending on your frame of reference. We started using the GAC with him at age 3 and had largely phased it out by age 9. On our most recent trip (he is now 11) he didn't use it at all. But this would not have been possible had we not had the GAC to use when he was 3 to teach him how to wait for these rides. How to deal with smelly, loud, invasive people. How to understand the reward that comes at the end of the wait. How to know when to say "its not worth it to go on Pooh right now because it has a 30minute wait. We'll come back later when its 15"
I could have told him these things, but they would not have registered. Only through a concerted effort tto use the GAC to teach him the process and then use it as the reward in a system that rewarded longer and longer wait times, did I achieve his current state.
So, setting expectations will rarely be as simple as telling the child that there willl be a wait. And even after they understand it, with autism you never know what will set someone off. There could be regression on certain trips or certain days that require the use of a GAC/DAS to build that stamina back up.
VIPguide_2030
Active Member
My child is autistic and the last 2 times we had been to WDW (2011, 2013) we used the GAC and it was great but quite frankly anyone who understands right and wrong and that other people exist in this world know that system was broken. Only a couple times did we go through the FP line, we went right through the exist on to the ride pretty much immediately other than maybe a handful of rides. In those same lines were people who were obviously not cognitively disabled, just old, obese, injured or lazy...these are not reasons not to have a wait time.
I think the new system sounds manageable but you just have to plan accordingly. You also have to know your child and what they can tolerate. My child can handle hot weather and waiting in lines but loud rides scare her. So guess what I don't do, take her on those rides. You have to adjust to your child's needs and not worry about what you want to do sometimes. This sounds to me like an issue of the non-handicapped individuals because my daughter loves being there and doesn't worry about GAC, DAS or anything else other than being at Disney.
I think the new system sounds manageable but you just have to plan accordingly. You also have to know your child and what they can tolerate. My child can handle hot weather and waiting in lines but loud rides scare her. So guess what I don't do, take her on those rides. You have to adjust to your child's needs and not worry about what you want to do sometimes. This sounds to me like an issue of the non-handicapped individuals because my daughter loves being there and doesn't worry about GAC, DAS or anything else other than being at Disney.
The difference with working with autistic children and having them is you get to send them home at the end of the day.
mp2bill
Well-Known Member
Nope; both were residential programs. I spent more time with them (the kids especially) than anybody else. Taking them to movies, amusement parks, grocery store, ball games, etc.
We were even given "business cards" that explained who we were and the diagnosis of the child that, in the event of a "meltdown", we were instructed to just toss into the air and get the child back to the house ASAP. I'll never truly know why, but I never had a problem with a child having a meltdown. I believe it's because I didn't treat them like they weren't capable of understanding guidelines and directions.
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mp2bill
Well-Known Member
I agree. However, based on what you wrote, I'd venture to guess that you are the type of parent that isn't necessarily going to give into your child (autistic or not) because it is the easier thing to do.
It sounds like if there was never any such thing as the GAC, you might've done just fine (maybe with a few bumps in the road) at WDW because of the way you raised him, even before you ever visited WDW.
You're right. Too many people don't give autistic children enough credit. And many meltdowns are avoidable, particularly with the right planning and preparation.
And you're wrong. Unexpected things happen all the time, and they happen more in loud, crowded environments like, let's say, a theme park. And autistic kids, as you know, can be affected by those unexpected things in unexpected and extreme ways.
mp2bill
Well-Known Member
So if there is a meltdown because of a loud noise, is getting on a ride quicker going to solve this problem?
Gomer
Well-Known Member
Actually yes. Using a favorite ride as a reset button when things go south is exactly the way I used the Gac as a reward in my system. It was integral to the process to use "immediate" access to his favorite rides to avoid the whole thing imploding on itself.
So to your other comment,no...it wouldn't have worked fine without Gac. Gac was why it worked. Otherwise the experience could have spiraled out of control and become permanently associated as something to be avoided at all costs.
fair enough, but you often see autistic kids do well during school hours because of the rigid structures in place and then when they get home they are a little bit harder to deal with because home has less structure no matter how much you try to make it so. To be perfectly honest we were never really worried about a meltdown except when he was younger, it was more a flight risk issue, that is to say he would leave a situation he did not like and he would do so very quickly, luckily this is not as much of an issue these days, because he is 6 ft tall and could knock over a small child if he were to try and muscle his way out of the line. Its also why we don't use the DAS or GAC nearly as much as we used to, We can get by with planning the day using FP+ and maybe use the DAS once just so we can limit our overall time in the park.
I can remember the one time he did have a meltdown and it was before we even got into AK one day. I can't even remember what it was about, but I kept him out of the park until I decided he was ready while my wife took the younger one in. Took about 1/2 hour but once done we caught up and the rest of the day was fine.
There was a time when I would get all worried about what others were thinking when they saw my son do something weird or even have a meltdown, but I realized that as long as the behaviors were not truly bothering anyone (unlike the example of someone letting their kid walk over and eat others food) I really didn't care what they thought, and once you get over that there is less stress. So in families with with younger kids just learning to deal with autism the stress can be equally on the family as it is on the kids because they are so worried about what might happen. the GAC was nice in that it took away some of that stress. The DAS can do some of the same but its not as good.
In some cases especially the more severe ones, that stress is real and constant, because a meltdown is more likely and can become self injurious behavior.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
That's all fine and well, but it's also EXTREMELY specific to your particular situation. The fact is, whatever system is in place is the same system for someone with Asperger's disorder, Heller's syndrome, plantar fasciitis, a broken ankle, and a guest who just says "I need that." Each condition, and each specific individual within each type of condition, has unique needs that would best accommodate them. There's no system on earth that will accommodate every particular individual in exactly the perfect way.
There are going to be individuals in every group including the disabled and the families of the disabled who will abuse any system Disney offers unfortunately.