First Mexico and Now Norway? Proof America is Getting Dumber?

[Jane Doe]

Cost is of the issues and checkpoints for airport security is an issue for traveling overseas. I have a doctor who travels on vacation outside of the country and isn't planning on doing many more trips outside of the US because of how being checked by airport security is outside of the country.

Having dealt with quite a lot of security and immigration at airports around the world I've found that US is the most badly managed and inefficient of them all.

 

[sjhym333]

EPCOT has been my favorite WDW park since it opened. I think it is a beautiful park and is gorgeous at twilight and into the evening. But as the years have rolled along I have been disappointed with the direction that EPCOT has taken. I am not sure I agree with the title of this post. We could have a long talk about the "dumbing" down of America but I think the issues at EPCOT are more complex and are rooted in many years of decisions, being ignored and the changing of corporate America.

For me the problems at EPCOT started many years ago. The idea of a permanent worlds fair type of park, plus trying to honor Walt's vision for EPCOT Center, pushed Disney to build a park that, when it opened, was groundbreaking in many ways and tried to straddle entertainment and education. The problem with large attractions like the ones at EPCOT is that when you need to make changes to them they are expensive to make. That was all well and good when you had other corporations willing to foot the bill as a sponsor, but just as the Walt Disney Company underwent corporate changes so did many other companies. I think many large corporations looked at sponsorships and return on that investment and decided that the cost was more then the return. Disney was then in the position that if they wanted to change things they were the ones who had to pay for it. That would have been ok but at times it seemed that they didn't want to invest, at other times when they decided to pull the trigger on something new, the decisions made turned out not to be so good (like Imagination). Quick fixes tended to not age well...Ellen and Bill Nye in Energy...Honey I Shrunk the Audience (based on a movie long out of many peoples mind) or were a complete mess (Imagination X2). Meanwhile on the other side of the park Disney has not added a World Showcase country in 27 years. One would think that there are no other interesting countries out there but the reality is that Disney doesn't want to pay for a World Showcase addition. That is very sad.

I look at the additions of Disney characters to EPCOT and have mixed feelings. I liked the Nemo overlay to The Living Seas but find the addition of Donald to Mexico and Frozen to Norway annoying. Years ago a Frozen attraction would be a perfect addition to Fantasyland or even as a part of a Pixar Place expansion at the Studios. Instead it is landing at EPCOT. We all know why that is happening. It all has to do with money. But even this decision comes because years ago Jay Rasulo decided on this one world, one park initiative where he challenged his staff in all business areas to think of WDW as one big park. That in itself could be a long post for another time.

This is what I do know. Tom Staggs just got promoted. That happened partly because of the performance of the parks. My guess is that Disney will continue down this road with EPCOT because it is working for them as a company. The uniqueness that once was EPCOT will slowly drift away as the parks become more homogeneous. Disney will continue to add characters (and that is partly the guests fault because many are willing to wait 2+ hours to see Frozen princesses), they will continue to push the festivals and they will continue to be move slowly in using their imaginations to create new experiences. And that is a shame.

 

[erasure fan1]

Let's just hope that they go big with Frozestrom and wow us instead of some half-arsed, budget cut, does not even resemble the original grand plans version that leaves us underwhelmed and let down.

Exactly. I think that if the ride is spectacular, at least we can say they put the quality of the ride above anything else. Of course I have my doubts because if they really cared about the quality they would have given frozen its own spot were they would have had no limitations. Does anyone else wonder why Disney didn't just make frozen based in Norway instead of a fictional place inspired by it? It sure could have saved them at least some trouble. You know they must have been looking at shuttering maelstrom for a long time now.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Wow!! And I'm guessing there's no "off season?!"

I need to do the rich people personal tour lol.. I'll keep playing the lottery!

Yeah, we went on a couple random days in April. The cool thing is, most of the people there are Japanese and extremely courteous. The crowd is always very orderly.

 

[wdwtopten]

They wanted to build Arandelle? Fine. But they should have just demo'd Tomorrowland Speedway and built it there.

That would fine with me!

For those of us who are a little older, perhaps a little more mature, Maelstrom had some charm. For those a few generations behind us, it's just not as cool, simply put. The ride plus the movie theater takes up a lot of space and I, for one, am curious to see how WDI can transform the area in to something new.

 

[Kit83]

Can you really fault them? It's a business...it's about profit...and their attendance numbers aren't exactly falling from this approach. Do I like it...for the most part, no...but when they assess everything, they look at what's boosting numbers. It may be the dumbing down of Disney from a content perspective, but they're laughing all the way to the bank with this approach. I've decided that Frozen is to Disney as the Kardashians are to E! and other media outlets. Most of the masses supposedly hate them or are at least sick of them, but enough people buy into it to make it wildly profitable. And who in their right mind would stop that kind of a cash cow?

I agree with all the above (other posts have made the same point, just picked this one out at random) yes business is business money is money but I would add that following a fad so strongly is not a good way to keep a business going into the future . Fads are just that here today gone tomorrow, I think we will just have to wait and see . I hope they get the balance of new and old right we shall see ! Many of us here love classic Disney as I do but there should be room for the new too .

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.”

 

[Chef Mickey]

That would fine with me!

For those of us who are a little older, perhaps a little more mature, Maelstrom had some charm. For those a few generations behind us, it's just not as cool, simply put. The ride plus the movie theater takes up a lot of space and I, for one, am curious to see how WDI can transform the area in to something new.

My only issue with Maelstrom was it ended abruptly. The ride itself was very well done.

I don't understand why Disney can't build new. Taking away classics and replacing them just creates the larger problem of not enough content for the crowds. This was a perfect opportunity to EXPAND. Now, they've just made EPCOT more crowded and dumbed down.

BTW, I do understand why they do replace instead of add. Money. Cheaper to use an existing building, track, ride system, etc.

 

[bebert]

Careful.
Most of Disney World and EPCOT in particular are Card Walker's vision, not Walt or Roy Disney's.

I think you missed my point. It was an overall statement on Disney and the Parks. Regardless of who pushed forward with WDW, I think the current direction is not inline with Walt's vision for Disney. IMO, WDW was what Walt would have wanted until recently.

 

[bebert]

Obviously members of this site have a passion for Disney and the parks but, maybe we are the minority.
How many visitors to the parks are on forums discussing these topics? Probably very few.
How many people go to WDW once and never go back? How many people are just casual fans of the parks and don't even really notice when rides are dirty or are down? I think it is great that so many people have such a passion for the parks but, I think we are a really small percentage and may just have to accept the parks may not ever be as "special" as they used to be.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

I will bet my house and years salary, that after Frozen opens, within 3 months, more people will have gone on that ride, than Maelstrom has ever had in its entire existence. It pains me to say it, not because I thought Maelstrom was anything other than a very boring ride, but for the fact that I cannot stand Frozen. More people will chose Frozen in its tier for fast pass in one day, than the people combined for Maelstrom in a month.

 

[216bruce]

In a simple answer to the post's question...Sort of. I honestly believe that the US, as a whole, is less interested in a well-rounded education than it was in the past, certainly less than from my youth ( the '60's). Education is nowadays really nothing more than glorified vocational training and learning to take standardized tests. Sadly, inherent in that is the poo-pooing of liberal arts and the arts in general in schools, since there's "no money or jobs in 'em".
So, we have folks who are computer whizzes that have the collected knowledge of the world literally at their fingertips and can't understand much of it, don't care to look at it or be challenged because it might 'wake them up', and a growing number of them who distrust science and higher education because it has a political stigma attached to it. It's "liberal" YEEGAD!
Anyway, the rant is over and eventually Disney will be more and more screens to look at in all of it's interactive glory. Yup, stupid. But they are just giving the general public what they want. WE may not want it but the Bufords (Country Bear reference) and Lil' Buford (another one) sure does. Big Screens, 3d, High def, touch screens...bleh.

 

[Bairstow]

I will bet my house and years salary, that after Frozen opens, within 3 months, more people will have gone on that ride, than Maelstrom has ever had in its entire existence. It pains me to say it, not because I thought Maelstrom was anything other than a very boring ride, but for the fact that I cannot stand Frozen. More people will chose Frozen in its tier for fast pass in one day, than the people combined for Maelstrom in a month.

I find this unlikely, if not impossible, simply because the Maelstrom hardware ran at or near capacity for almost each of its operating days. Half hour queues all day every day. That's part of the reason I find this overlay an unwise decision from a park operations perspective.

 

[wdwtopten]

My only issue with Maelstrom was it ended abruptly. The ride itself was very well done.

I don't understand why Disney can't build new. Taking away classics and replacing them just creates the larger problem of not enough content for the crowds. This was a perfect opportunity to EXPAND. Now, they've just made EPCOT more crowded and dumbed down.

BTW, I do understand why they do replace instead of add. Money. Cheaper to use an existing building, track, ride system, etc.

I will certainly agree with you here. If there was an option to keep Maelstrom and add something new to Norway, then I'd glady check THAT box.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

My only issue with Maelstrom was it ended abruptly. The ride itself was very well done.

I don't understand why Disney can't build new. Taking away classics and replacing them just creates the larger problem of not enough content for the crowds. This was a perfect opportunity to EXPAND. Now, they've just made EPCOT more crowded and dumbed down.

BTW, I do understand why they do replace instead of add. Money. Cheaper to use an existing building, track, ride system, etc.

Maelstrom's fate was sealed when Frozen made $878 billion using (I guess?) a vaguely similar setting and subject matter. They would never keep Maelstrom operating in its classic form when Frozen also takes place in Scandinavia and has friendly trolls that aren't trying to send you off a waterfall to your death.

 

[Jane Doe]

More people will chose Frozen in its tier for fast pass in one day, than the people combined for Maelstrom in a month.

I noticed than on one of the Magic Kingdom's quieter days in January that the queue for the non-frozen princess meet and greet was running at sixty minutes, a mere forty minutes shorter than the Frozen wait.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Maelstrom's fate was sealed when Frozen made $878 billion using (I guess?) a vaguely similar setting and subject matter. They would never keep Maelstrom operating in its classic form when Frozen also takes place in Scandinavia and has friendly trolls that aren't trying to send you off a waterfall to your death.

It makes no sense to just replace an existing, loved attraction that makes sense with one that's popular and doesn't make much sense. They need more STUFF to do in the parks to eat up the growing crowds. I get it made a lot of money (not $878 billion, lol) but just put it somewhere else and make it an addition.

 

[NJL]

Hmm... I see what you mean... BUT, Epcot is still marketed as a celebration of culture, I don't think of it as a second magic kingdom, and I don't think that is going to change. Three Caballeros wasn't a big change from the first ride, and I wouldn't say they took away the celebration of Mexican culture from the ride. Now I don't know what they are gonna do to the maelstrom by tying it into Frozen, but I'm sure it will still be tied into Norwegian culture.

 

[DManRightHere]

There is a theory society is getting dumber. Basically, the dumb have more babies than the well educated. Don't hate on me...I just read about it. I'm not calling everyone with many babies dumb

 

[Chef Mickey]

There is a theory society is getting dumber. Basically, the dumb have more babies than the well educated. Don't hate on me...I just read about it. I'm not calling everyone with many babies dumb

It is true that the less affluent, less educated tend to have more babies when studied at a high level.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

I find this unlikely, if not impossible, simply because the Maelstrom hardware ran at or near capacity for almost each of its operating days. Half hour queues all day every day. That's part of the reason I find this overlay an unwise decision from a park operations perspective.

Half hour wait times are nothing. In Disney, that pretty much enforces the fact that the Majority passed it by. I would even bet the farm that not a single person ever chose Maelstrom over Soaring or Test Trek on a fast pass.

With my wife and little girl, I've had enough with Frozen already, but you cannot deny the overwhelming high demand for it. Last year we had breakfast in Norway and before we went in, we saw a line form to meet Anna & Elsa. The lady at the reservation booth said we can get in line and our reservations will be saved. We got lucky and waited 30 min. However, by 9am, our line was full and they actually started a second line somewhere else in Epcot. Then when our line goes down, a Cast Member would walk a few people from the 2nd line over to our line. At 9am, the Cast Members were showing people where the other line is and telling them they are at a 4-hour wait. The people were saying OK and gladly waiting. No other Disney Princesses have ever had a higher demand in their debut or even this long after. Norway as a country in Epcot had 10 times more people come and visit, once the Arendale Norway connection was made.

Your assumption that this was an unwise decision couldn't be further from the facts. This was a very wise decision for Disney based on knowing what the people actually want. As for the people who don't like Frozen, we should still be happy over this. Disney will now have another ride that will create a lot of traffic. This will then take away all the traffic from the rides we like, such as Test Trek and Soaring. When the ride opens up, 4-hour waits guaranteed all day long.