Depends on what the sypmtoms are. If you are trying to treat a virus with antibiotics, it wont work so well....:lookaroun
What?:shrug:
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FastPass: The Great Debate
- Thread starter DisneyMusician2
- Start date
Depends on what the sypmtoms are. If you are trying to treat a virus with antibiotics, it wont work so well....:lookaroun
What?:shrug:
GenerationX
Well-Known Member
MontyMon has made some excellent points.
1. Imagine that it's a busy summer day, and FastPass does not exist. You get to Splash Mountain, and it's a 60 minute wait. 60 minutes is within the amount of time you're willing to wait, so you get in line. 60 minutes later, you've ridden.
2. Now imagine it's that same summer day, but FastPass does exist. You get to Splash Mountain, and the Stand By line is a 60 minute wait. 60 minutes is still within your waiting limit, so you get in line. 60 minutes later, you've ridden.
3. Finally, imagine it's that same summer day, but the maximum you're willing to wait in line for Splash Mountain is 30 minutes. In Example 1 above, you skip the attraction altogether because you're not willing to stand in line for 60 minutes. Somebody else who is willing to wait 60 minutes takes your spot. However, in Example 2 above, you get a FastPass and ride the attraction later.
In all cases, the number of people experiencing the attraction is constant, and the wait in the Stand By line is constant. The difference is in who gets to ride. FastPass redistributes ridership from those willing to wait to those not willing to wait.
1. Imagine that it's a busy summer day, and FastPass does not exist. You get to Splash Mountain, and it's a 60 minute wait. 60 minutes is within the amount of time you're willing to wait, so you get in line. 60 minutes later, you've ridden.
2. Now imagine it's that same summer day, but FastPass does exist. You get to Splash Mountain, and the Stand By line is a 60 minute wait. 60 minutes is still within your waiting limit, so you get in line. 60 minutes later, you've ridden.
3. Finally, imagine it's that same summer day, but the maximum you're willing to wait in line for Splash Mountain is 30 minutes. In Example 1 above, you skip the attraction altogether because you're not willing to stand in line for 60 minutes. Somebody else who is willing to wait 60 minutes takes your spot. However, in Example 2 above, you get a FastPass and ride the attraction later.
In all cases, the number of people experiencing the attraction is constant, and the wait in the Stand By line is constant. The difference is in who gets to ride. FastPass redistributes ridership from those willing to wait to those not willing to wait.
MickeyMan101
Member
Do i use fastpass? yes
Do i think it should be continued? Depends...
I personally think that the castmembers who count out the number of fast pass to go compared to the number of stand-by riders ranges from Awsome to HORRIBLE. Some people know how to do it and some dont. If Disney were to enforce on how to do so i think i would be a non controversial subject...(spelling i know) But the reason i say this is because if your in line for say Rock 'n Roller Coaster this is how i think it should be done:
Fastpass riders: allow about 30 people to go and wait untill the line goes down. Following the line after it has gone down about 20 stand-by riders are allowed to go onto the ride.
This to me would seem to be the right way to do it, were it is fast pass and you would be going faster because the line is not usually nearly as long and there are not as many spots to be taken as there are basically unlimited spots in stand-by.
Why i say they need to be trained? I have witnessed it MANY MANY times at Rock 'n Roller Coaster, which is why i am using it as a example, where the cast member would let about 30 fast pass riders go, then about 5 stand-by riders and repete the process.
To me that is basically defeting the purpose of waiting in line, and usually that person doesnt even let stand by go when they need more fast pass riders they wait until there are more Fast pass rieders to fill it up.
To sum this all up once again, I personally think Disney needs to re-think the ratio of fastpass riders allowed on to the stand-by riders allowed on.
Also because not really every body has the oppertunity for fastpass like others have mentioned. I dont even know how many more people there are compared to fast pass and this means that there are not as many to go around(mainly at the magic kingdom) but in the end it comes down to if the cast member knows how to keep the lines flowing fairly quickly when leting it be fair and the fast pass people do get on faster than the stand-by which is the whole purpose.
MickeyMan101
Do i think it should be continued? Depends...
I personally think that the castmembers who count out the number of fast pass to go compared to the number of stand-by riders ranges from Awsome to HORRIBLE. Some people know how to do it and some dont. If Disney were to enforce on how to do so i think i would be a non controversial subject...(spelling i know) But the reason i say this is because if your in line for say Rock 'n Roller Coaster this is how i think it should be done:
Fastpass riders: allow about 30 people to go and wait untill the line goes down. Following the line after it has gone down about 20 stand-by riders are allowed to go onto the ride.
This to me would seem to be the right way to do it, were it is fast pass and you would be going faster because the line is not usually nearly as long and there are not as many spots to be taken as there are basically unlimited spots in stand-by.
Why i say they need to be trained? I have witnessed it MANY MANY times at Rock 'n Roller Coaster, which is why i am using it as a example, where the cast member would let about 30 fast pass riders go, then about 5 stand-by riders and repete the process.
To me that is basically defeting the purpose of waiting in line, and usually that person doesnt even let stand by go when they need more fast pass riders they wait until there are more Fast pass rieders to fill it up.
To sum this all up once again, I personally think Disney needs to re-think the ratio of fastpass riders allowed on to the stand-by riders allowed on.
Also because not really every body has the oppertunity for fastpass like others have mentioned. I dont even know how many more people there are compared to fast pass and this means that there are not as many to go around(mainly at the magic kingdom) but in the end it comes down to if the cast member knows how to keep the lines flowing fairly quickly when leting it be fair and the fast pass people do get on faster than the stand-by which is the whole purpose.
MickeyMan101
the-reason14
Well-Known Member
I think the fastpass is wonderful, but there are many flaws in the system just as there will be with anything. It seems that all of the rides with fastpass you still have to wait in a line. I remember when SplM had the one where you would walk on the left side of the cave and literally get right on, but now, the person collects them right before you go in the cave, anyone know the reason for that?
And there are just certain rides that you know arent worth a fastpass, simply because the lines are never horrendously long, like Dinosaur and Mission:Space.
And there are just certain rides that you know arent worth a fastpass, simply because the lines are never horrendously long, like Dinosaur and Mission:Space.
Zummi Gummi
Pioneering the Universe Within!
I had no idea this was even a debate, let alone a "great" one. I think Fastpass is their biggest stroke of genius since the monorail. Why? Well, looking strictly at their bottom line it gives the guest more time to wander around the park and spend money. As a guest, it frees you up to do more. When you get a Fastpass for Space Mountain, for instance, while waiting for your return, you can visit the less popular Tomorrowland attractions- Timekeeper, Stitch (why you'd wanna do that, though, is beyond me), etc. Without Fastpass, you have to sacrifice some of the smaller attractions because there simply isn't time in the day.
Craig & Lisa
Active Member
Six Flags also has something like US, you also have to pay for it but you have to wait till a certain time like FP to use it, so it's a 2 slap in the face. You pay, you wait. I like FP too, even though you have to wait till your time comes you don't have to wait on a long line in sometimes very hot weather to get on.
Miss Bell
New Member
I love most things about Fast Passes. Here are the two that I don't:
1. Not all rides that have Fast Passes need them. For example, Haunted Mansion. The period of time tha HM had a Fast Pass, it really mucked up the whole line for everyone and made the ride much more crowded. I feel the same way about Peter Pan's Flight, which is one of my favorite rides. I don't remember there ever being an hour plus wait for it, until there was a Fast Pass--now, you have almost have to get a Fast Pass to ride it in a reasonable time.
2. I think it is crazy when rides are out of Fast Passes by 11:00 in the morning. This happened to us twice a couple of weeks ago in Epcot. Granted it was super-crowded, but I pay for a Park-hopping privelage for a reason. I personally prefer Epcot in the afternoon and evening. If I get there by 1:00 in the afternoon, and all the Fast Passes for Soarin' and Test Track are already gone, it really messes up part of my plan for that same day. On the same lines, if I get there and get a Fast Pass, say by 10:00 a.m.--it may not be until 6 or even 8 that night, now I can't hop to another park, or if I do, I have to come back if I want to ride a particular ride. It adds stress to what should be a leisurely vacation.
I'm sure it would probably make things worse, but I'd be curious as to what would happen if they had a morning/evening cut off for Fast Passes. Like in the morning they give out Fast Passes only for time slots up til one. Then at one, give them out for time slots until five, then at five give them for up to closing. Again, I'm sure there are a million reasons this wouldn't work, but I do wonder what that would to crowds and lines at certain attractions.
1. Not all rides that have Fast Passes need them. For example, Haunted Mansion. The period of time tha HM had a Fast Pass, it really mucked up the whole line for everyone and made the ride much more crowded. I feel the same way about Peter Pan's Flight, which is one of my favorite rides. I don't remember there ever being an hour plus wait for it, until there was a Fast Pass--now, you have almost have to get a Fast Pass to ride it in a reasonable time.
2. I think it is crazy when rides are out of Fast Passes by 11:00 in the morning. This happened to us twice a couple of weeks ago in Epcot. Granted it was super-crowded, but I pay for a Park-hopping privelage for a reason. I personally prefer Epcot in the afternoon and evening. If I get there by 1:00 in the afternoon, and all the Fast Passes for Soarin' and Test Track are already gone, it really messes up part of my plan for that same day. On the same lines, if I get there and get a Fast Pass, say by 10:00 a.m.--it may not be until 6 or even 8 that night, now I can't hop to another park, or if I do, I have to come back if I want to ride a particular ride. It adds stress to what should be a leisurely vacation.
I'm sure it would probably make things worse, but I'd be curious as to what would happen if they had a morning/evening cut off for Fast Passes. Like in the morning they give out Fast Passes only for time slots up til one. Then at one, give them out for time slots until five, then at five give them for up to closing. Again, I'm sure there are a million reasons this wouldn't work, but I do wonder what that would to crowds and lines at certain attractions.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Pointing out that Test Track Fastpasses sell out and that's a problem isn't completely valid. Before Fastpass (and the Single Rider Line), Test Track would routinely have 2-hour waits. So, while it does suck that the FPs are gone by noon on some days, it was always the case that if you wanted to ride Test Track in the afternoon or evening, you were in for a wait.
Soarin' opened at DCA with Fastpass, so we have no comparison, but with its woefully low hourly capacity, I would bet it would be in a similar boat to Test Track. Long lines at WDW are not new. We have two-hour waits on E-Tickets now, and we had them 10 and 20 years ago. The fact is, the average person with a brain will not wait more than a couple hours for a ride, so queue wait times will always stop there with few exceptions (it has always boggled my mind to see wait times for Soarin' and Test Track cross 4 hours--there are really people dumb enough to get in a line with a 240 minute posted wait time? No ride is worth that wait).
Having a graded Fastpass release would just tick guests off. Can you imagine? You show up at Test Track at 9:30 am and the kiosks are closed because they have sold out until 1 pm, and you walk away annoyed only to find out later that people were again getting Fastpasses, so you sprint over from the American Adventure in the 90 degree heat to find that the kiosks are again closed b/c the 1-5 pm block is out, and it would go on and on. I can see the guests lining up at guest relations already. It's better to offer them in one single block, and when they are gone, they are gone.
Soarin' opened at DCA with Fastpass, so we have no comparison, but with its woefully low hourly capacity, I would bet it would be in a similar boat to Test Track. Long lines at WDW are not new. We have two-hour waits on E-Tickets now, and we had them 10 and 20 years ago. The fact is, the average person with a brain will not wait more than a couple hours for a ride, so queue wait times will always stop there with few exceptions (it has always boggled my mind to see wait times for Soarin' and Test Track cross 4 hours--there are really people dumb enough to get in a line with a 240 minute posted wait time? No ride is worth that wait).
Having a graded Fastpass release would just tick guests off. Can you imagine? You show up at Test Track at 9:30 am and the kiosks are closed because they have sold out until 1 pm, and you walk away annoyed only to find out later that people were again getting Fastpasses, so you sprint over from the American Adventure in the 90 degree heat to find that the kiosks are again closed b/c the 1-5 pm block is out, and it would go on and on. I can see the guests lining up at guest relations already. It's better to offer them in one single block, and when they are gone, they are gone.
I agree with the one block and gone philosophy. That way, the lines won't be held up...If FP is being administrated properly, it should work. Is there a way to do some research on this?
And perhaps if some CMs (not all) stopped letting people with expired FP's through, it might solve part of the problem that FP seems to create with some people.
pacochran
Active Member
I personally think fastpasses are alright, though I just had a conversation yesterday with someone who just got back from WDW, and said they don't like to use them because they think it's unfair for those who stand in line. My thought was just get fastpasses.
This past year we went to shh!! "Universal", and their version of the fast pass is that if you stay in an on-sight resort, you go to this special "Fastpass" line which was great I think even better than fastpass. The only thing is that Universal can do this as they only have 3 on-site resorts, where as Disney has a ton more, so it really wouldn't work at Disney.
This past year we went to shh!! "Universal", and their version of the fast pass is that if you stay in an on-sight resort, you go to this special "Fastpass" line which was great I think even better than fastpass. The only thing is that Universal can do this as they only have 3 on-site resorts, where as Disney has a ton more, so it really wouldn't work at Disney.
goofyfan13
Well-Known Member
I'd venture a guess to say that the number of guests that show up with expired FP's is far less than that of those who show up 10 minutes early and demand to get in. I really don't think showing up after your time is a big deal, but that's just me.
I really think that the "buying" of special passes is simply wrong. I also disagree with the idea that was bandied about for awhile about having different levels of FP for different levels of resort guest. Keep everything equal, as it was meant to be. Or get rid of the system all togther. During a normal day, anyone should be able to obtina a FP and get on that line no matter what class of hotel they stay in or if they can afford even another $5 a person past their park tickets. For some families traveling to Disney, and extra $25 is a lot of cash.
Rockin Roller
New Member
Fastpass is a must whether some people like it or not, and it was a smart move by Disney. Sure it has its flaws but it was a great move that led other theme parks like six flags to do the same except you have to pay for a fastpass there
I would disagree with this. And I think the issue is getting bigger with the proliferation of people on boards like these encouraging others to "collect" all the FP's they can in the morning, and then just use them "whenever".
I, too, like the morning FP and evening FP idea. Not three tiers, but just two. So there is a block of FP's given out up to 4pm, and when they run out, at 4pm they open up another block for then until close. That would be GREAT! Just like you, we like to park hop. FP is useless for us at whatever park we go to in the afternoon because invariably they are all gone by the time we get there. In fact, during busier times, if we weren't in the park before 9am for a morning park, we couldn't get a FP earlier than 6pm or 7pm, which is the time when we plan to be in another park or off at dinner someplace. So even trying to get morning ones, unless you do rope-drop practically, is a useless proposition.:brick:
That said, medium crowd times I have found them to be wonderful. Slow times they turn them off, as they should. Ya don't need em.
goofyfan13
Well-Known Member
Yes, but, keep in mind we are not anywhere near the majority of guests who go to Disney. Yes many of us on the boards do it, but, most guests that go don't read these boards and don't know the "tricks".
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
People returning after their scheduled return time (but on the same day) doesn't affect anything. The numbers are calculated out so that everyone can get a ride, it doesn't really matter when they show up as long as it is not BEFORE their listed time. After their given time has passed, they should have the ability to return whenever. I would bet many more people altogether miss their FP time than try to come back after it has expired. I know I've missed more than one over the years--free souvenir.
Fastpass - benefit everyone
A lot of people on here are trying to calculate how wait times change as a result of fastpasses. The reality is that the calculation of average wait time can be very complicated depending on what rate the fastpasses are given out and how that number changes the return time. These types of caculations are typically done by industrial engineers who caclulate average queue lengths, wait times, loading capacity, ride length, etc.
I think the much more simple way to think about it is that the fastpasses simply smooth the ride's demand throughout the day. Rather than have a large peak in wait time in the early afternoon, you have a more consistent, albiet still variable, wait time during the day. This helps Disney in staffing the ride.
On another note, getting a fastpass in my mind is no different than getting a reservation at a restaurant. Your wait time should be less than the person who did not have a reservation
A lot of people on here are trying to calculate how wait times change as a result of fastpasses. The reality is that the calculation of average wait time can be very complicated depending on what rate the fastpasses are given out and how that number changes the return time. These types of caculations are typically done by industrial engineers who caclulate average queue lengths, wait times, loading capacity, ride length, etc.
I think the much more simple way to think about it is that the fastpasses simply smooth the ride's demand throughout the day. Rather than have a large peak in wait time in the early afternoon, you have a more consistent, albiet still variable, wait time during the day. This helps Disney in staffing the ride.
On another note, getting a fastpass in my mind is no different than getting a reservation at a restaurant. Your wait time should be less than the person who did not have a reservation