FastPass+ open to all guests including offsite beginning next week at Disney's Animal Kingdom

[GrumpyFan]

I truly think you are making several mental leaps. I agree this is a revenue stream, but more from increased demand at the Resorts. Paying an extra $10/day for the parks is peanuts compared to moving from the Gaylord Palms to the Grand Floridian.

Not real sure what you mean by "making several mental leaps", but my ticket pricing options were just a few examples of what they might do. Knowing Disney, the price differences would be much greater. However, I agree, there is a big difference between the Gaylord and Grand Flo. Obviously, Disney would prefer that everybody stay on property at one of their deluxe resorts, but they are aware that not all guests can afford this level, so they have priced the tickets and resorts to try and appeal to all levels, but still pull in a profit, which they do quite well.

I think something that has happened in the last decade though, is the deluxe or luxury level of expectation has gone up quite a bit, and guests staying at these, almost demand a higher level of service and privileges which Disney hasn't been all that great at providing. They have made small attempts at filling this expectation by offering tours and tour guides as well as things like the Wild Africa at AK, which is a premium experience, but I think they need more things like this if they really want to reach the more affluent guest with deeper pockets than the average. It is entirely possible that they have more in mind with MM+ and FP+ as well as other features which would help to fill that gap and maybe meet some of the expectations there.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I guess it makes sense to do it at AK. Probably due to the amount of guests it gets compared to the other parks. But, this idea with the kiosks will be very nightmarish as many people won't be able to figure out how to use it.

Surely not. I mean... Everyone that visits WDW speaks the same language and is park savvy and computer literate.

Right?

Uhhh... Right?

 

[flynnibus]

We are, of course, speaking about legacy fastpasses going away. What I meant was they both pull from the same pool. Say, for example, again Everest had 20 FPs in an hour (again not real numbers, just for illustration) and I booked one FP+ on my phone, there would be 19. Then you inserted your ticket into a legacy fastpass machine, there would be 18 left that hour. And so forth.

Thx for clarifying. Is that first hand info or second hand?

 

[donsullivan]

I think this is it and more, the goal may also be to reduce the number non-site guests as well.

I'm not sure they want to reduce the number of off-site guests in the parks each day since they do not have enough hotel room capacity to fill the parks to desired levels on a daily basis. They are clearly creating a different level of experience for the WDW resort hotel guest vs. non-WDW hotel guest. In that respect it's similar to only WDW hotel guests getting access to EMH- it's a great perq for staying on property.

For some reason unclear to me however, WDW seems to have again demoted AP holders to a lower level of guest privilege than they had previously.

 

[donsullivan]

And us locals.

Locals have a significantly reduced visit experience over what we had just 3 months ago. With the combination of a dramatically reduced pool of day-of FP's (due to shift of finite capacity to FP+ advance reservations) and being ineligible to reserve FP+ in advance we're stuck with what's left over that nobody else wanted when you arrive.

 

[WDWYankee15]

We are, of course, speaking about legacy fastpasses going away. What I meant was they both pull from the same pool. Say, for example, again Everest had 20 FPs in an hour (again not real numbers, just for illustration) and I booked one FP+ on my phone, there would be 19. Then you inserted your ticket into a legacy fastpass machine, there would be 18 left that hour. And so forth.

Thx for clarifying. Is that first hand info or second hand?

Also, especially if this is 1st hand info, do you know are some of "the pool" held back to be distributed day off?

 

[GrumpyFan]

I was one of those making the observation about unusually long FP+ lines during Thanksgiving week.

What I observed were numerous super-long FP+ lines at the top of the hour. By the second half of the hour, FP/FP+ lines were back to normal.

View attachment 40944

That line formed in less than 20 minutes.

I saw the phenomenon happen at all 4 parks on various attractions. It certainly did not happen all the time but as someone who visits every Thanksgiving, I had never seen it happen before for that week.

We observed similar lines in October on our visit. It's kind of disheartening, because it seems like they have wrecked the FastPass system. It seemed to me that either there were a LOT more people getting FPs, or they were all for the same time. Regardless, I hope its cleared up as they move forward with the rollout. If it's due to more people getting FPs, then I think we're all in for a rough if not diminished experience.

 

[ParentsOf4]

We observed similar lines in October on our visit. It's kind of disheartening, because it seems like they have wrecked the FastPass system. It seemed to me that either there were a LOT more people getting FPs, or they were all for the same time. Regardless, I hope its cleared up as they move forward with the rollout. If it's due to more people getting FPs, then I think we're all in for a rough if not diminished experience.

FP+ is new for Disney. It's sure to have a bunch of kinks with the distribution algorithms that Disney will correct over time. Please recall that it took several iterations for the legacy FP system to reach its current configuration.

I'm anticipating Disney taking steps to eliminate some of the ridiculously long FP+ lines I observed during Thanksgiving.

I'm also expecting Disney to close some of the loopholes that people have been taking advantage of.

Ultimately, Disney's going to adjust the new FP+ system into whatever configuration it believes will be the biggest revenue generator. Some will benefit from the new system; some will suffer.

However, with the newly announced offsite guest policy for DAK, I'm unable to see how this becomes anything other than a bad situation:

"Come on you day guests. Stand in these slow FP+ kiosk lines so you can make FP+ selections for whatever our Resort guests left for you."

Even if Disney reserves some FP+ capacity for the good attractions for day guests, exactly how does that ever become a winner?

Either you'll have Grand Floridian types saying "I'm spending $500/night just so you can give away FP+ to days guests!"

Alternatively, you'll have days guests saying "I spent 30 minutes waiting for a FastPass+ kiosk only to find out that all the Expedition Everest Fast Passes were gone by the time I finally got to a kiosk."

How does this ever succeed?

So far, FP+ emphasizes what we've known for years. WDW does not have enough good attractions at 3 of its theme parks.

Disney didn't need to spend $2B to figure that out.

 

[Cesar R M]

FP+ is new for Disney as well. It's sure to have a bunch of kinks with the distribution algorithms that Disney will correct over time. Please recall that it took several iterations for the legacy FP system to reach its current configuration.

I'm anticipating Disney taking steps to eliminate some of the ridiculously long FP+ lines I observed during Thanksgiving.

I'm also expecting Disney to close some of the loopholes that people have been taking advantage of.

Ultimately, Disney's going to adjust the new FP+ system into whatever configuration it believes will be the biggest revenue generator. Some will benefit from the new system; some will suffer.

However, with the newly announced offsite guest policy for DAK, I'm unable to see how this becomes anything other than a bad situation:

"Come on you day guests. Stand in these really long FP+ kiosk lines so you can make FP+ selections for whatever our Resort guests left for you."

Even if Disney reserves some FP+ capacity for the good attractions for day guests, exactly how does that ever become a winner?

Either you'll have Grand Floridian types saying "I'm spending $500/night just so you can give away FP+ to days guests!"

Alternatively, you'll have days guests saying "I spent 30 minutes waiting for a FastPass+ kiosk only to find out that all the Expedition Everest Fast Passes were gone by the time I finally got to a kiosk."

How does this ever succeed?

So far, FP+ emphasizes what we've known for years. WDW does not have enough good attractions at 3 of its theme parks.

Disney didn't need to spend $2B to figure that out.

I wonder how many attractions would they have build with these 2 billion instead of moving to fp+

 

[71jason]

I think something that has happened in the last decade though, is the deluxe or luxury level of expectation has gone up quite a bit, and guests staying at these, almost demand a higher level of service and privileges which Disney hasn't been all that great at providing. They have made small attempts at filling this expectation by offering tours and tour guides as well as things like the Wild Africa at AK, which is a premium experience, but I think they need more things like this if they really want to reach the more affluent guest with deeper pockets than the average. It is entirely possible that they have more in mind with MM+ and FP+ as well as other features which would help to fill that gap and maybe meet some of the expectations there.

I completely agree with the first part of this, but I think you misjudge TDO's response. Simple fact is it's easier to toss a couple FastPasses at guests and call it a perk than take the time and effort to run a true 4 or 5-star hotel. They realize they can't (alright, won't) compete for the high-end guests, so they are looking for something to bribe guests into paying $500 to stay in an aging hotel with Best Western like service. Cf. "free" dining--getting the Golden Corral crowd to pony up for all the flank steak and and chicken nuggets they can eat rather than running true restaurants of culinary impact.

 

[TP2000]

I have been reluctant to join the Disney needs more rides bandwagon, but I'll say it. Stop spending on DVC and MM+ and add a E ticket to AK, EP, and HS NOW! Then you won't have to tier your rides...

Agreed. But it's not just one E Ticket needed at each of the parks. The Magic Kingdom and Epcot both need at least a half dozen more rides each, with several of them being E Tickets. And DAK and DHS both need a dozen more rides each, with a few E Tickets each!

A dozen more rides per park, if they really want this MagicBand FP+ thing to work with the annual attendance the WDW property pulls in each year.

Disneyland Resort 2012 Combined 2-Park Attendance - 24 Million
Disneyland Park - 46 Attractions, 36 are Rides, 11 are E Tickets
Disney California Adventure - 31 Attractions, 21 are Rides, 5 are E Tickets
Anaheim Property Total - 77 Attractions, 57 are Rides, 16 are E Tickets

Walt Disney World Resort 2012 Combined 4-Park Attendance - 48.5 Million
Magic Kingdom Park - 34 Attractions, 25 are Rides, 7 are E Tickets
EPCOT - 23 Attractions, 8 are Rides, 4 are E Tickets
Disney's Hollywood Studios - 15 Attractions, 6 are Rides, 3 are E Tickets
Disney's Animal Kingdom - 13 Attractions, 7 are Rides, 4 are E Tickets
Orlando Property Total - 85 Attractions, 46 are Rides, 18 are E Tickets

Anyone who has ever spent more than 3 days at WDW could have told you that WDW needs more rides for MagicBand FP+ to work. But it's increasingly obvious that the people who approved MagicBand FP+ in Burbank have never actually spent time in the WDW theme parks as a paying customer. That's just very bad executive management, nothing more. Burbank bosses quite clearly don't know the theme park business very well.

 

[tongaloosh]

For all the folks who think that its fine to leave the FP scraps for off site guests, just remember how many guests on a given day are NOT staying in Disney resorts. I have no idea what the actual figures are, and obviously the numbers will fluctuate, but for the sake of argument lets be generous and say that 75% of park visitors are resort guests.

That means 1 in 4 guests are NOT staying on property, and therefore CANNOT book FPs in advance, and must wait in lines at kiosks to get whatever is left on day of, with no access to the old FP system, all while waiting in longer standby lines.

I completely understand that Disney wants to cater to its resort guests. But it is one thing to offer perks and benefits to them, than to completely skew the experience in favor of them at the expense of offsite visitors.

It certainly doesn't seem like to good plan to me to actively screw over 25% of your customers. As a result, I can easily see that any financial gains from onsite guests could easily be offset by losses from annoyed offsite guests.

Maybe they ARE trying to annoy that 25%. That percentage won't return, meaning there will be less people in the parks, meaning no new rides will have to be built to deal with capacity issues. As an added "bonus", prices can be hiked to cover that 25% loss in revenue under the guise that those who still come will be getting a very petsonalized interactive experiencr.

 

[wdisney9000]

MM+ has been juggling chainsaws since its inception and now its arms are starting to get tired. Its gonna drop one,..but on who? The guests, or the execs? Is the BOD too ignorant to realize when they are being spoon fed numbers and projections that are built on a house of cards?

 

[JohnD]

Except that "plan ahead" will increasingly mean not at rope drop, but 60 days out, and only for those allowed access.

The silver lining, possibly, is that the new system will be such a pain in the #%^ that a key percentage of guests will reject it in favor of just winging it for the day. Reduce the number of people using FP+ and the standby lines become more bearable.

And that my friends is the best we can hope for from our WDW vacations in the next decade.

See you at Legoland because that's the park my 5 and 8 year old boys are requesting we return to. We say "What about the Magic Kingdom?" They say "no thanks."

I'm going with my parents in April. My mother has already asked me, "Will I have time to browse around during the Flower and Garden Festival?" My answer to her, considering we'll be going to Epcot over two days and AK on one, was "yes." But Dad also wants to ride Soarin!, so I'll be making FP+ reservations for it in February. I can hear my mother complaining already when we get there: "But I thought you said we would have time in Epcot but now we have to rush to Soar-ing?" So I'll be explaining to her that I either make a reservation for the ride 60 days out with a specific time or we wait 70 minutes. But if FP+ is not made, I guarantee, knowing my mother, she would nix the 70 minute wait in a heartbeat. No ride.

 

[Nmoody1]

I wonder how many attractions would they have build with these 2 billion instead of moving to fp+

The way Disney haemorrhage money, maybe 2!

 

[wdisney9000]

I wonder how many attractions would they have build with these 2 billion instead of moving to fp+

They would just build 18 M&G's

 

[StarWarsGirl]

I honestly have no problem with Magic Bands. I have no problem with the RFID readers. It's faster to get into the park and quicker to buy lunch. FP+ is terrible. I have no problem with them going paperless. That's fine. But this system is so screwed up.

 

[bradandsarabr]

Next thing you know, they will come up with dining plans with everyone having to maker all decisions 3 months before travel!!!

I see FP+ changing the way veterans enjoy the park. There were many a day, before expiration was enforced, that I would leave with 20 FP- in my pocket. However, the average guest still thinks that you have to pay for FP- & that the Disney bus will take you to IOA. (You know you have seen it every time.)

I am sorry to see the old system go, but am ready for these boards to stop complaining but how to master the new system.

 

[the-reason14]

So essentially all this is doing is replacing legacy FP with electronic FP+.
Everyone, whether on or offsite, will be limited to 3 per day making the playing field level for all. Onsite (and assumably AP) will have the added benefit of scheduling ahead of time - as I think it should be. Nobody seems to cry unfairness to EMH only being accessible to onsite so why for this? I honestly dont see how moving to this next phase (not whether obviously yes more attractions are needed thats a separate argument) is anything but positive.

(flame suit on )

Well the emh was just 3 hours after the park closed. And unless the MK was closing extremely early, then it's not a huge disadvantage for off site guests. If MK did close early then those extra 3 hours for resort guest would be worse then it would had it stayed open for all guest. Emh was only truly worth it at MK when it stayed open till 3 am for resort guest. But this makes it inconvenient for off site guest trying to enjoy their regular park days which is what Disney is trying to push as the norm smh.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The system of booking 60 days out has been in operation for quite some time for all onsite guests. There has remained availability for FP+ for day of for all attractions. The issue of running out has only come in to play with TT, Soarin and TSMM by mid to late morning on busy days. This is no different whatsoever then how legacy FP ran out for these attractions. Thus no difference in planning strategy.

Toy Story Mania has been regularly running out at 9:30 or earlier. Soarin' and Test Track have been better (usually they're available between 1-3, but crowded days it's between 10-1). In any case same day Fastpass availability is noticeably less in these parks where they desperately need attractions.

One of the biggest issues here is that it's making it more difficult for large groups to plan things together. For so many people Disney World is a family destination and you typically have these groupings booking rooms at different resorts, some on site, some offsite. It's making it harder to coordinate.

I'll be there in January, we're staying offsite and the trip overlaps with my sister's family. They are starting out offsite, but spending a few days onsite at the end of their trip. Right now, they have access to the Fastpass+ system for the days before they actually stay on site and we don't have access. So now, we have to coordinate her Fastpass+ reservations with whatever we're able to get day of. She has both tickets and Magic Bands and I'm curious if she will be limited on the legacy Fastpass system if she makes Fastpass+ reservations.

It really is a mess right now, the parks weren't equipped for this from an attraction standpoint, and the logistics of coordinating a vacation now take hours of additional planning that was never needed.

I have never wanted Disney to fail prior to this mess that is Fastpass+. But this is such a drastic change in the way vacations happen that I really want to see it fail with the results being a massive purge of anyone linked to this disaster. The thing is, they could very easily scrap the pre-planning component of Fastpass+, make it a competitive advantage using the legacy distribution rules (For everyone) and the larger scale public perception of My Magic + would be positive. The problem is the biggest consumer facing component of it is operationally and conceptually flawed. It has nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with the concept behind it.