FastPass+ open to all guests including offsite beginning next week at Disney's Animal Kingdom

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
I don't claim that it is an overwhelming success, because I admit that I do not have the data to prove it. I simply said it worked for me, which is obviously verboten.
How generous of you. But, based upon your numerous posts defending this program, it's not overly difficult to surmise what your opinion is....

And taking supposed numbers from another thread on this forum isn't using empirical evidence. It's using the most convenient facts you can find to support your beliefs.....
 

Recon443

Active Member
How generous of you. But, based upon your numerous posts defending this program, it's not overly difficult to surmise what your opinion is....

And taking supposed numbers from another thread on this forum isn't using empirical evidence. It's using the most convenient facts you can find to support your beliefs.....
My opinion is based on my experience as I have noted many times. Whereas other posters declare it a failure without having ever used it.

So where is the empirical evidence? I don't have it, do you? But yet you are happy to use convenient 'facts' as posted on this board by folks who do not like the system to support your beliefs.
 

MissingDisney

Well-Known Member
The fact that I used to be able to get as many fast passes as I wanted, if timed correctly, at any of the four parks throughout the day, and now I can only have three at one Park that I have to schedule 60 days in advance (to stand even a remote chance of getting them when I want them) is enough of a failure to me.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
It's called "throwing good money after bad" and executives (and gamblers) do it all the time.

When you evaluate the current state of a project in order to decide what to do next, you don't consider how much has already been thrown into it. That money is spent. You simply ask yourself, "Moving forward, what are the best options?"

Disney needs to keep moving forward with MyMagic+ because, incrementally from the current situation, it's the smart business play.

Travel back to 2007 and, with a crystal ball, look at the situation at the end of 2013 and MyMagic+ never happens.

And senior executives are delusional all the time. Just look at all the corporate and financial collapses. Each is an example of "The Emperor's New Clothes". :)

The delusions of senior executive are driven by the American Management culture where they never stoop to mix with the rank and file as they are royalty and NEVER dirty their hands. Boeing's huge and very public failures began when the moved HQ from Everett WA to Chicago IL - so they could focus on 'strategic initiatives'. Of course they can no longer negotiate a major govt contract without scandal nor build a new plane on time which does not catch fire just sitting there.

Disney's failures are along the same lines Executives who don't KNOW their product and how it is produced or USED.
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
My opinion is based on my experience as I have noted many times. Whereas other posters declare it a failure without having ever used it.

So where is the empirical evidence? I don't have it, do you? But yet you are happy to use convenient 'facts' as posted on this board by folks who do not like the system to support your beliefs.
And yet you choose to willfully ignore the experiences of countless others. Which is impossible to calculate, as you well know.

No, I don't. But I'm not throwing out figures from this thread: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/mk-daily-attendance.861191/ in some sort of factual analysis either.
 

SirLink

Well-Known Member
You have already admitted that since you used it there have been fundamental changes to the system as the result of "lessons learned" (hows that for a non contentious definition) so your experience is now as valid as mine. Surely?

As for your post count it has no bearing on your opinion, even when that opinion is wrong, but it does tend to make suspect a third rate trolling attempt or s previously stated a half baked attempt at media management. Though to be fare I think both are beyond you.

I just wanted to say I gave this post a huge *like*
 

John

Well-Known Member
So it is ok to issue personal attacks? Just depends on who you are and whether or not you are toeing the board line?


With some I wouldn't take it personally. It has nothing to do with "toeing the board line" it is a matter of having established one self as a member of this community. You want to come in with guns a blazing proclaiming that most here are wrong in their opinion and fact based anecdotes of FP+. Neither you or others have "hard facts" to back up your (their) position. What some do have is a history. A history of posting here and a history of what we can expect from that member. You want to step in to the hornets nest and not get stung that is on you. I suggest you not take it personally.....Take a deep breath, take a step back and wade slowly in to the fray. I ask you other then your personal experience do you have any other anecdotal evidence that this thing is a success? The people here spend an awful lot of time ( some more then others) talking, visiting, studying the on goings with WDW. I wouldn't be so quick to just dismiss their opinion.
 

JerseyDad

Well-Known Member
....well ...there are clearly many here that have had less than magical (that's political correct terminology for "failure") experiences since the new system has been implemented. I (my family) was one of those "bits of data" from our August trip ...that can be put into the "bad column" on the ledger sheet. Everything from MB problems to FP 'appointment' issues can be chalked up as "not good". And then there is the whole 'scheduled to the Nth degree" thing that we don't buy into. I don't know if that's a "failure" as far as 'data' goes ....but I will consider it to be, because it soured my feelings about WDW in a way that I could not think was possible after experiencing 10 prior trips that were pretty much wonderful. I cannot for the life of me think that, with the sheer numbers of people that go to WDW each day ...that there aren't others that feel similar to the way I do.
 

disney4life2008

Well-Known Member
You can hop - but NO FP- at other parks unlike the old days, You know MK during the day and EPCOT or DHS for shows and food at night...

I have been known to do all 4 parks major attractionswith breakfast, lunch and dinner in one day. But this was only possible with fp. Now that one day of fun will be impossible because excluding the one park I reserve and I i will be stuck in lines. Ugh.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
....well ...there are clearly many here that have had less than magical (that's political correct terminology for "failure") experiences since the new system has been implemented. I (my family) was one of those "bits of data" from our August trip ...that can be put into the "bad column" on the ledger sheet. Everything from MB problems to FP 'appointment' issues can be chalked up as "not good". And then there is the whole 'scheduled to the Nth degree" thing that we don't buy into. I don't know if that's a "failure" as far as 'data' goes ....but I will consider it to be, because it soured my feelings about WDW in a way that I could not think was possible after experiencing 10 prior trips that were pretty much wonderful. I cannot for the life of me think that, with the sheer numbers of people that go to WDW each day ...that there aren't others that feel similar to the way I do.

Same here - went in August for a quick getaway (DVC member with LOTS of points) and I never want to go back because of the utter chaos My(Bad)DisneyExperience caused on a 4 day trip.

I fix large scale IT failures for a living, When it's broke and no one else can fix it, My team and I FIX THEM. M(B)DE is one of those failures. But the process only begins when someone has the guts to admit it's broken beyond repair.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I have been known to do all 4 parks major attractionswith breakfast, lunch and dinner in one day. But this was only possible with fp. Now that one day of fun will be impossible because excluding the one park I reserve and I i will be stuck in lines. Ugh.

Did that many times to finish a business trip and recharge mental batteries sometimes only half a day flew in early AM left late PM using layover as a half-day vacation. But as you say no longer
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
Well let's take a look at your evidence shall we?

What is the number of MB complaints over time?

What was the number of people in the customer service line pre MB and post MB?

How many CM's have you talked to? Total number versus the number who work in the park and have to deal with MB's?

You provided five 'failures' as evidence. You did not note if they all occurred on the same day, at the same park, or if the park was busy or not. So without that knowledge......

Assuming we are at MK....
Average daily attendance: 47K
Percentage using FP+: Using 30% (A low estimate) and assuming they are all resort guests as the bands are not available to off property guests.
Number of guests using MB/FP+: 14,100
Number of problems you reported: 5
Percentage of problems against attendance: 0.035%

Failure? Disaster? Hardly.

Still waiting for disaster proof.......still waiting......

I'm still waiting for proof you have that this is a success.. Your post here proves you do not understand or comprehend how things work...

1) It is not 5 instances... it is way more than 5... Do you really believe these problems occurred just 5 times since they started testing, to one person?

2) You have to use EVERYONE the issues happened to... PEOPLE are the data, not the issue... So while there may only be 5 issues (there are a lot more but regardless), you have to multiply those 5 issues by the amount of people the issues are happening to... again, WAY more than 5...

3) While I was there in October, I did not stand there to count how many people were in line at Guest Relations at a time, during the course of the entire day... Nor did I take pictures cause I didn't bring a camera with me, and couldn't be bothered using my phone cam... I can tell you I witnessed lines out the door during any given hour during any given day...

4) Most Guest Relations CMs are dealing with ALL issues including MB, but there are Cms assigned just for MB/FP+ issues... if things were perfect and not failing, the extra CMs would not be needed... But increased failures/problems lead to increase guest complaints leads to increased CM numbers to handle the increased complaints... Again, just common sense showing this is failing and not working...

5) Again, I personally know 15-20 people (be they friends, family, co-workers) who have had major issues with this system since the summer.... Those are just the people I know... and yes, I know, a small number... But, increase that by the number of people on this forum who are having/had issues times the number of people not on this forum but on other forums having/had issues times the number of people who do not post ion any forum (just members of the general public) who are having/had issues... And you'll see how wrong you are by saying only 5 instances... It is WAY MORE THAN 5...

6) During my last trip, while out to dinner with my CM friend, she brought along a few of her CM friends... Nice people i must say... 3 of them were Gust relations CMs, 2 worked in attractions, one was a character.. My friend is in food/beverage... the 3 GR CMs all complained about their job, how complaints have increased since MM+ and FP+ testing began... How the numbers of complaints are increasing on a daily and weekly basis... Did I ask for hard numbers? No... No need too... Why? Cause an increase is an increase, and any increase in complaints is not good... And all the complaints were about the system failing... Not glitches... if it happens to one person, one time: glitch... But when it happens to MANY people over MANY months, and is not fixed, that is a failure...

7)During my most recent unMAGICial trip, and my last to WDW, I witnessed increased stand by lines for rides which are ALWAYS walk on, all while crowds were low... The parks were not crowded at all, so the only explanation is FP+... Pirates had a 40 minute wait... For Pirates? Why? FP+... HM posted a 20 minute wait time, but was actually closer to 45 minutes... again, why? Not because the park was crowded... Because FP+... Increased stand by lines is a failure... Pictures? No... But look at what Parentsof4 posted... He took pictures of increased FP lines... FP lines should NEVER have a huge wait... Now they do... Failure...

Success: hardly...
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I have been here long enough to not be considered a troll or a Disney plant (although my offer still stands that I can be bought pretty cheap if any Disney social media people are reading;)).

That being said I have used the new system and with 1 or 2 minor exceptions the bands and the FP+ system worked exactly as advertised. If you browse around the my magic section of this forum I would say there are more positive reviews than negative from those that actually used the system but there were also many who had less positive experiences and had more issues than I did. As time and testing has gone on it seems that the glitches are starting to be worked out. There is definitely more work and testing to go. I can't figure out why they would start the next phase of testing during the holiday season. Seems foolish.

Just because the system works as planned doesn't mean its a success or a positive addition or that I think its a good investment. Lots of people are heavily biased against this system, are rooting for it to fail and are looking for anything negative to focus on. I am not a fan of the whole project in general myself, but if I'm trying to stay unbiased it is working for the most part as planned.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I went to Epcot today (didn't ride Test Track or Soarin') and while the lines weren't too bad and moved quickly, I also noticed many attraction actually had waits and lines now. Spaceship Earth now seems to use more of its queue even past the peak morning crowds. The Seas with Nemo & Friends was a 20 min wait around noon today with the line (although not fully extended inside) reaching to the beach scene just inside the entrance. Living with the Land actually had a short queue. Journey into Imagination was a short 5-10min wait around 11am, but the line backed up to the entrance doors. Grand Fiesta Tour had a super extended queue set up, but was only a 5 min wait. Norway in general is a huge cluster f with 3 major lines snaking through the country: Malestrom, Princess Dining, & Frozen Meet & Greet. Over at Hollywood Studios, at 5pm, Great Movie Ride had a 20 min wait with the line backed up past the car outside.

It bears repeating... it's mathematically impossible for every line to be longer concurrently with the same attraction capacity unless there are more people.

FP would create longer standby lines by creating different priority queues - it shifted people and used different priorities. But it's a shell game in terms of moving the impact. It doesn't happen everywhere simultaneously.

You need more bodies physically taking up a slot to have any wait extended... and the same body can't be in multiple places at the same time.

If you are seeing new waits somewhere.. that means somewhere else there isn't.
 

John

Well-Known Member
It bears repeating... it's mathematically impossible for every line to be longer concurrently with the same attraction capacity unless there are more people.

FP would create longer standby lines by creating different priority queues - it shifted people and used different priorities. But it's a shell game in terms of moving the impact. It doesn't happen everywhere simultaneously.

You need more bodies physically taking up a slot to have any wait extended... and the same body can't be in multiple places at the same time.

If you are seeing new waits somewhere.. that means somewhere else there isn't.


Ahhhhhh my dear friend, Judge Flynni. My contention is where is the "some where else"? Is it POTC? HM? Also IMO there are more bodies using FP then ever before. Where FP seemed to be more spaced out what I think we are seeing is that thru out the day during peak times you have peak usage. Why else would FP be out for the major attractions so early in the day. I mean there has to be some issue we are not seeing. Are these anecdotes not true? Mathematically I suppose the program looked great on paper.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Well let's take a look at your evidence shall we?
The number of complaints vs. total guest usage is irrelevant in evaluating MyMagic+'s success or failure. Technical problems will be solved and we'll be left with a new system that will have to stand on its own merits.

MyMagic+'s measurement of success should be judged solely based on revenue and profit growth.

With typical price increases in recent years, domestic theme parks have been averaging about 7% growth annually. That's the baseline. Anything above that represents positive growth; below that negative growth.

To justify its tremendous capital investment and increased operating cost, MyMagic+ needs to increase revenue by about another 12-13% on top of that.

Seriously, if you're investing over a billion dollars and can't realize a double-digit growth annually, then that's just a pitiful financial performance.

In the most recent earnings call, when asked:

"And just a follow-up question on the domestic parks. I think in the past, you've sort of called out some incremental expense that we may see in different initiatives. I guess is there something incremental we should look out for in fiscal 2014? I guess, where are you on the spending around Magic+? And then on Magic+ when we might see, I guess, some signs or data points of how it's impacting the business?"

CFO Jay Rasulo replied with:

"Alexia, let me take the back-end of your question first on MyMagic+. So, the situation we're in right now is that we basically are continuing to roll forward with making this benefit available to more and more of our guests. And at this point, if you are staying on property at one of our hotels, you're basically a beneficiary of MyMagic+. And, you know, we've talked about the benefits in two basic categories, in terms of the financials of the company.

"The first, as it greatly improves the experience at Walt Disney World, we expect that -- as we have with everything else we've done to improve the experience at our parks -- to have an underlying increase in business. Whether that's more individuals coming to the resort every year, or those individuals who come down to Orlando, spending more time with us and having a better time. That tends to reverberate throughout our business in a very positive way. And then, sort of easing some of the, let's say, logistics of getting around the property -- paying for things, entering the parks, getting in and out of the resort hotels -- when you make that easier, people tend to spend more time on entertainment, more time on consumables, be that food and beverage, merchandise, et cetera. So, as we are still very much in the early days of rollout, we haven't been characterizing that impact, but we do expect this to be a net positive and growingly positive impact on our business in the years to come.

"Relative to the front-end of your question on spending, continued spending and ramp-up of new initiatives in Florida -- and that's not only MyMagic+, which, you know, the operating portion, of course, the costs are kicking in, and we're now seeing, as we put the assets in place, some of the depreciation that comes with that project being reflected in our expenses. But if you look at it on an overall basis, those new initiatives are accretive -- were accretive in 2013 -- continue to be accretive in 2014. I said in my comments that the margin impact of that in fiscal 2013 was about 30 basis points on our overall margins. And this year, we're looking at about a $300 million expense item, and more or less the same amount on the revenue side. So, you know, we'll continue to see accretion into 2014 and ramping upward beyond that."

Basically, Disney is already saying that MyMagic+ will be a net 0 in FY 2014.

MyMagic+ represents a lot of money spent with nothing to show for it so far.

The impact of WWOHP and Carsland were immediate. No two-year "test" phase. They were obvious and immediate financial successes.

So far, MyMagic+ is shaping up to be a big dud financially. However, it's also premature to call it a failure. We won't know it's true impact until customers start evaluating the benefits of staying onsite vs. offsite (e.g. like the DAK FP+ announcement that started this thread) and change their purchasing patterns accordingly.

I'm hoping corporate Disney learns their lesson and abandons plans to implement MM+ at Disneyland. However, at WDW, it's here to stay. Regardless of whether it stays or goes, that's no measurement of its success or whether senior management is happy with it.

I believe if they could go back in time and know then what they know today, then MyMagic+ never happens.
 
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