FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[Incomudro]

Every other park does it and I have never seen people complain about it

Not at $300 per person per day.
I'm not talking about some add on fee, I'm talking about a steep add on fee.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Every other park does it and I have never seen people complain about it

Historically, Disney has been a place where you couldn't tell the haves from the have nots. They've been eroding that perception for a while now, but if it becomes this much more obvious, I think people are going to lose it.

 

[Jrb1979]

Not at $300 per person per day.
I'm not talking about some add on fee, I'm talking about a steep add on fee.

It wouldn't be $300 all the time. That would be more on high attended days.

 

[Incomudro]

Historically, Disney has been a place where you couldn't tell the haves from the have nots. They've been eroding that perception for a while now, but if it becomes this much more obvious, I think people are going to lose it.

Yes.
They can't put a "haves" queue alongside a "have not's" queue.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

Do we have proof of that? Anecdotally I know a lot of people who not only used it but some who booked club level for part of their stay specifically to try it.

I haven’t seen any report about the actual numbers who used it. I’d be interested in seeing one though.

My last trip was CL and I had considered CLFP+.
Ultimately I decided not to do it.
The price was not a factor since I was only paying for myself and it was on a 3 day ticket so what's an extra $150? (This is why I'm also not opposed to paid FP+).
What DID deter me was how restrictive it felt. Yeah sure no tiers and no park limitations but having to actually plan out an additional 3 FP+'s and not be able to modify them myself was making it more difficult. If I were to have had control over them or if it were more like 3 any time FP+'s where you just walk up to an attraction and use it I would have jumped on the band wagon.

 

[flynnibus]

No, but practically there is no way they are creating a product that eats up the FP+ queue and will sit largely empty the entire day. Their goal is to make money and that's not the way to do it.

Consider this. If what you're saying is true, there will be no where near enough people to fill those queues up. Which means those queues sit empty. Those queues sitting empty is lost money for them. They want a steady flow of guests in those queues just enough so you barely wait at all. And however number of people that is will dictate the pricing.

So say that is 10,000 people per park per day. They need to price it at a point where 10,000 people reliably will pay for it, every single day.

That is not $500. No where near it and there is ample evidence because guests again for the 100th time pass up on $50 and $100 opportunities to skip lines.

But that FP+ 'sitting empty' isn't costing Disney anything. They are far more motivated to protect it's 'premium' value than they are to drive utilization. Once they commoditize it, there is no going back.

Why isn't Universal lowering the price of the Express pass to ensure it's always being used? Because that undercuts themselves. They lower the price today because in large part, many days it's just not needed at all. They really are just charging a premium on days where it's really more valuable. It has far more value skipping 2hr lines instead of 30min lines.. and they charge for that.

I'm sure Disney will have a program like MaxPass where they want as high of attach rate as possible... but that thinking doesn't apply to programs you really want to protect the value of... like 'unlimited' or real front-of-the-line style perks. Those you keep exclusive to keep up their value.

 

[GimpYancIent]

But that FP+ 'sitting empty' isn't costing Disney anything. They are far more motivated to protect it's 'premium' value than they are to drive utilization. Once they commoditize it, there is no going back.

Why isn't Universal lowering the price of the Express pass to ensure it's always being used? Because that undercuts themselves. They lower the price today because in large part, many days it's just not needed at all. They really are just charging a premium on days where it's really more valuable. It has far more value skipping 2hr lines instead of 30min lines.. and they charge for that.

I'm sure Disney will have a program like MaxPass where they want as high of attach rate as possible... but that thinking doesn't apply to programs you really want to protect the value of... like 'unlimited' or real front-of-the-line style perks. Those you keep exclusive to keep up their value.

Ok, so nothing has changed! It's about $$$$$$ and more $$$$$$, oh yea did I say $$$$$$$.

 

[flynnibus]

But that’s not reality because there’s 3x as many people trying to board rides at 1PM as at 7PM. You can’t utilize all of the queues all day. And 10,000 is WAY to many to do what you say. The ride capacity in “5 minutes” for these parks is like 1000-3000 and a lot of that still has to go to standby.

Anyway it all goes back to why I don’t think there will be unlimited and we’re talking in circles so I’m done.

I think you all are talking about very different programs but not saying it. The distinction between a FP style system and a 'front of the line' type or other unlimited program has been lost in this back and forth.

Disney loves the idea of selling everyone a program -- but no way will Disney give up the golden goose and commoditize anything that is essentially 'god' access to attractions.

Sell everyone the same FP they got for free before? Fantastic!
Sell everyone the 'front of the line' pass that you could use an unlimited number of times? No way

Disney won't devalue their own stuff.

Besides... 'when everyone is special, no one is special'. And that's not just wait times, but valuations too

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

Ok so I'm thinking that the new system may look like... you get x amount of "any time" style Fastpasses for x amount of money which would make it easy to have tiered pricing and then the more days you add the less per day packaged.
I'll even throw this out there... I think it will basically cost you $10 per Fastpass.
You get a bundle of 3 per day... $30 per person.
Bundle of 6... $60 per person.
Then you discount them per day for each day added.

 

[drizgirl]

I don't have a problem with them offering a high priced option since it won't be wide spread enough to really affect those not paying. But does that mean the rest of us only have standby available? Because that's what's available now and it isn't looking like too great of an experience.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

But that FP+ 'sitting empty' isn't costing Disney anything. They are far more motivated to protect it's 'premium' value than they are to drive utilization. Once they commoditize it, there is no going back.

Why isn't Universal lowering the price of the Express pass to ensure it's always being used? Because that undercuts themselves. They lower the price today because in large part, many days it's just not needed at all. They really are just charging a premium on days where it's really more valuable. It has far more value skipping 2hr lines instead of 30min lines.. and they charge for that.

I'm sure Disney will have a program like MaxPass where they want as high of attach rate as possible... but that thinking doesn't apply to programs you really want to protect the value of... like 'unlimited' or real front-of-the-line style perks. Those you keep exclusive to keep up their value.

Certainly an unlimited product would be attached to a very high premium, but I would still be surprised if it weren’t more attainable than people here are lead to believe.

 

[marni1971]

Ok so I'm thinking that the new system may look like... you get x amount of "any time" style Fastpasses for x amount of money which would make it easy to have tiered pricing and then the more days you add the less per day packaged.

As far as I know there won’t be any “any time” passes.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

-The whole point is that it would be a limited product. Broader than VIP tours, but far less than the old FP.

-Reality is, most guests wouldn’t buy it for every day of their trip. It would likely hold the greatest appeal to those on short trips— like cruise-day visitors. But even those staying a week, many might just buy it for a couple of days.

-There is no reason WDW wouldn’t be able to charge just as much as Universal, which is easily $100-300 per person, per day.

-yes that’s expensive. That’s the point. At $50 per person per day, you’d have way too much demand. Almost everyone would want it.
Now take Christmas guests at Grand Floridian, paying $2,000+ per night. Paying $15,000 for a week of the hotel. 3 days of $300 FP for a family of 4… $3600 is a lot of money. But it’s less than 2 nights of the hotel.
Or take low season… $100 per day, at a time when deluxe hotels go for $400-1000 per night. Still nothing compared to the hotel cost.

- Disney sells plenty of after hour tickets for $120+. They sell dessert parties for $80+… which people primarily pay just to get a good fireworks view.
So skipping every line, all day…. That’s worth far more than a dessert party. Skipping to the front of lines for 10-12 hours is worth far more than a 3-hour after-hour event.

-I simply can’t imagine a cost of under ~$150 per person, per day.

Agree $150 is likely the minimum price point but I can’t see it growing to more than $199.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

As far as I know there won’t be any “any time” passes.

This changes a lot.

 

[pdude81]

Every other park does it and I have never seen people complain about it

I'm not sure I'm catching your drift. At least a quarter of this thread is people complaining about it. Do you just me complain in line at other parks?

 

[flynnibus]

My last trip was CL and I had considered CLFP+.
Ultimately I decided not to do it.
The price was not a factor since I was only paying for myself and it was on a 3 day ticket so what's an extra $150? (This is why I'm also not opposed to paid FP+).
What DID deter me was how restrictive it felt. Yeah sure no tiers and no park limitations but having to actually plan out an additional 3 FP+'s and not be able to modify them myself was making it more difficult. If I were to have had control over them or if it were more like 3 any time FP+'s where you just walk up to an attraction and use it I would have jumped on the band wagon.

The important takeaway here is that it wasn't the price.. or perk that deterred you... but the structured use and limitations.

In the FP++ world... this could very much rear it's ugly head again. Imagine if Disney only let you use the perk in one park... or only if you bought 'length of stay' versions, etc.

 

[havoc315]

I'm not sure I'm catching your drift. At least a quarter of this thread is people complaining about it. Do you just me complain in line at other parks?

point is, you won’t find people boycotting Universal or Sea World because of their express pass systems.

 

[havoc315]

Agree $150 is likely the minimum price point but I can’t see it growing to more than $199.

During peak holiday seasons, when people are spending $1,000-$3,000 per night just on the hotel room, I can see it going way over $199.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

During peak holiday seasons, when people are spending $1,000-$3,000 per night just on the hotel room, I can see it going way over $199.

Flex pricing for sure. I’m saying on average I think that’s the price point they will target. But now we have reason to believe it will not be an unlimited type product. That leads to the notion they are looking to maximize the number of people utilizing it and not create a dangling fruit only available to the wealthy.

It’s entirely possible, even likely, we just get the old FP+ with a fee and substantially reduced inventory (can find a FP for any ride at any time without having to wake up at 6am 60 days out).

 

[pdude81]

As far as I know there won’t be any “any time” passes.

This is what makes sense. Especially if there are less people/reservations in the park, you can now give people their "free" fastpasses and charge for the passes that used to be free to those not attending. You can even use the same system that people were used to. However, this would just mean you need to cap the passes at X (3?) and not allow people to get what's left over or changed for free. Then if you suddenly drop the reservations, people are already used to limited passes and upcharges.