FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[RSoxNo1]

Has attendance ever suffered at WDW in response to things being taken away?

The biggest example of this is EPCOT. Here are attendance numbers I've gathered for EPCOT going back to 1982. Pay particularly close attention to 1998 - Present. This is significant because Animal Kingdom opened in 1998 and it also marks the most significant directional change in that park with the closure of World of Motion a few years earlier. These numbers may be slightly off, but they are the best ones I've been able to find:

Year	Attendance	% Change	Global Rank
2019	12,444,000	0.0%	7
2018	12,444,000	2.0%	7
2017	12,200,000	4.2%	7
2016	11,712,000	-0.7%	6
2015	11,798,000	3.0%	6
2014	11,454,000	2.0%	6
2013	11,229,000	1.5%	5
2012	11,063,000	2.2%	6
2011	10,825,000	0.0%	6
2010	10,825,000	-1.5%	5
2009	10,990,000	0.5%	6
2008	10,935,000	0.0%	6
2007	10,930,000	4.5%	6
2006	10,460,000	5.7%	6
Pre 2005 data courtesy of WDWMagic.com user donsullivan
Year	Attendance	% Change	Walt Disney World Rank
2005	9,900,000	5.3%	2
2004	9,400,000	9.3%	2
2003	8,600,000	3.9%	2
2002	8,280,000	-8.0%	2
2001	9,000,000	-15.1%	2
2000	10,600,000	5.0%	2
1999	10,100,000	-4.7%	2
1998	10,596,750	-10.2%	2
1997	11,800,000	5.4%	2
1996	11,200,000	4.7%	2
1995	10,700,000	10.3%	2
1994	9,700,000	2.1%	2
1993	9,500,000	-5.0%	2
1992	10,000,000	-3.6%	2
1991	10,372,619	1.0%	2
1990	10,273,810	-18.9%	2
1989	12,675,000	0.8%	2
1988	12,576,190	-5.3%	2
1987	13,277,381	19.8%	2
1986	11,078,571	27.6%	2
1985	8,679,762	-10.3%	2
1984	9,680,952	1.0%	2
1983	9,582,143	209.1%	2
1982	3,100,000	–	2

 

[DisneyDodo]

The biggest example of this is EPCOT. Here are attendance numbers I've gathered for EPCOT going back to 1982. Pay particularly close attention to 1998 - Present. This is significant because Animal Kingdom opened in 1998 and it also marks the most significant directional change in that park with the closure of World of Motion a few years earlier. These numbers may be slightly off, but they are the best ones I've been able to find:

Year	Attendance	% Change	Global Rank
2019	12,444,000	0.0%	7
2018	12,444,000	2.0%	7
2017	12,200,000	4.2%	7
2016	11,712,000	-0.7%	6
2015	11,798,000	3.0%	6
2014	11,454,000	2.0%	6
2013	11,229,000	1.5%	5
2012	11,063,000	2.2%	6
2011	10,825,000	0.0%	6
2010	10,825,000	-1.5%	5
2009	10,990,000	0.5%	6
2008	10,935,000	0.0%	6
2007	10,930,000	4.5%	6
2006	10,460,000	5.7%	6
Pre 2005 data courtesy of WDWMagic.com user donsullivan
Year	Attendance	% Change	Walt Disney World Rank
2005	9,900,000	5.3%	2
2004	9,400,000	9.3%	2
2003	8,600,000	3.9%	2
2002	8,280,000	-8.0%	2
2001	9,000,000	-15.1%	2
2000	10,600,000	5.0%	2
1999	10,100,000	-4.7%	2
1998	10,596,750	-10.2%	2
1997	11,800,000	5.4%	2
1996	11,200,000	4.7%	2
1995	10,700,000	10.3%	2
1994	9,700,000	2.1%	2
1993	9,500,000	-5.0%	2
1992	10,000,000	-3.6%	2
1991	10,372,619	1.0%	2
1990	10,273,810	-18.9%	2
1989	12,675,000	0.8%	2
1988	12,576,190	-5.3%	2
1987	13,277,381	19.8%	2
1986	11,078,571	27.6%	2
1985	8,679,762	-10.3%	2
1984	9,680,952	1.0%	2
1983	9,582,143	209.1%	2
1982	3,100,000	–	2

Crazy that Epcot's highest attendance year on record is 1987

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Crazy that Epcot's highest attendance year on record is 1987

That was the year of my first visit.

 

[DisneyDodo]

That was the year of my first visit.

Without you, it would have been only 13,277,380

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Without you, it would have been only 13,277,380

Well, technically 13,277,372...my family and my cousins and their parents.

 

[UNCgolf]

I wonder why attendance dropped so much from 1989 to 1990. I guess Disney MGM being new and open was part of it, but it was open for most of 1989 too. Maybe there was an overall decline across all of WDW.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It was a post 9/11 decision. It was also one of the first post 9/11 cutbacks to be reversed, basically 1 year to the date they announced it was gone. It came back October 1, 2002.

Yeah…I wasn’t 100% I had that pegged…

you can’t really take anything in that catastrophic period and make a current correlation…it was the worse period in Disney’s overall outlook in the modern era

Did he though?? They are about to make bank on no investment what so ever….

Longterm? Yes

for quarterlies?
Winner, winner dinner!!

 

[Rickcat96]

Completely agree. Except it’s just a problem on here today. Will only be a problem for them if paid capacity is maxed out. (Which I never see happening)

I do foresee it, even with a paid program, they still have to staff it so it does not become another long waited line. Which is the issue now-Staff the rides and capacity improves, wait times are better.

 

[jpinkc]

I love the Poly and GF and POR but I just cant justify a week at any of them without FP. For what we are charged its just not worth it. Yes they have beautiful theming, but so do other hotels for half price or even less

I do foresee it, even with a paid program, they still have to staff it so it does not become another long waited line. Which is the issue now-Staff the rides and capacity improves, wait times are better.

But staff costs $$$ and thats not Disney.. at least nowadays.

 

[Rickcat96]

I love the Poly and GF and POR but I just cant justify a week at any of them without FP. For what we are charged its just not worth it. Yes they have beautiful theming, but so do other hotels for half price or even less

But staff costs $$$ and thats not Disney.. at least nowadays.

Agreed- thats the issue

 

[ParentsOf4]

The ONLY Thing(s) that have ever caused attendance to “decline”….and it really was just a flattening…have been recessions

and one virus. And one terrorist event (that was really in a recession already)

Disney has never suffered reduced attendance/revenues due to cutting perks.

This generally is correct.

WDW also experienced attendance declines prior to the opening of new theme parks in 1981 (4%), 1982 (5%), and 1988 (5%). The idea was that vacationers delayed their trips to experience the Epcot and Disney-MGM Studios theme parks.

WDW also saw a 7% attendance decline in fiscal year 1984 (October 1983 to September 1984), the year after Epcot opened. Contrasting that, WDW experienced an 81% jump in attendance in the 12 months after Epcot opened in October 1982. (I was one of them!). The idea was that so many visited during Epcot's first year that there was a natural pullback the year after.

Oddly, this phenomenon did not occur for Disney's Animal Kingdom. Attendance was up 12% the year before DAK opened, but up only 6% (for an entire new theme park!) the year DAK opened. This gives you some idea of what people thought of the perceived "WDW zoo".

Who remembers the "Nahtazu" campaign Disney pushed after DAK opened to convince prospective Guests that DAK was "not a zoo"?

 

[ParentsOf4]

….it was I believe in the early 00’s?

may not be as significant as you think. Guest comm was much better then than now (they actually compensated people for PR purposes)…so that’s gone.

and what’s “numerous”? Enough to put a dent in 20,000 on property rooms at the time? How about the hundreds off property?

do you recall the exact date?…let me test a theory…

Sorry, can’t remember a date. I have slept a few nights since then. As far as numerous, of course they didn’t give me a number but it must have been quite a few to make that big of a change. I mean they didn’t just bring back early mornings but added evening hours too. I know Disney well enough that wasn’t just from the goodness of their hearts.

Perhaps this will help:

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Perhaps this will help:

View attachment 579165

Anything going on back then?

notice the biggest drop…and how it actually is something different than everyone assumes

 

[Roy G. Dis]

I'm currently at the acceptance stage of grief with regards to FP+, and perhaps WDW's entire perks model, changing. The water is warm folks.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Anything going on back then?

notice the biggest drop…and how it actually is something different than everyone assumes

Back then?

You mean the attendance declines in 2001, 2002, and 2010?

Recessions.

 

[runnsally]

Back then?

You mean the attendance declines in 2001, 2002, and 2010?

Recessions.

GW1 bookends

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Back then?

You mean the attendance declines in 2001, 2002, and 2010?

Recessions.

Well yeah…

but I like to point out (no one seems to want to believe me) that wdw was in a significant attendance lag in EARLY 2001…long before the Tuesday morning. The placed crashed hard after the 2000 thing ended. Which may be a reason why they don’t really try that kinda build up anymore.

GW1 bookends

No…we love Jorge…

but I guess you’re right too?

 

[Roy G. Dis]

Well yeah…

but I like to point out (no one seems to want to believe me) that wdw was in a significant attendance lag in EARLY 2001…long before the Tuesday morning. The placed crashed hard after the 2000 thing ended. Which may be a reason why they don’t really try that kinda build up anymore.

The graph you posted doesn't support this. Do you have something that shows attendance by months? That might help people believe you. Easy to think that a terrorist attack and a recession starting in September might've dampened the usually very busy Q4 for WDW parks.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The graph you posted doesn't support this. Do you have something that shows attendance by months? That might help people believe you. Easy to think that a terrorist attack and a recession starting in September might've dampened the usually very busy Q4 for WDW parks.

There are no “official “ graphs of anything.

I worked in business units during that time. The dot.com recession really didn’t hit wdw until 2001…it was 2000 on Main Street. What they found was that people - it was very much still the middle class clientele then - kept their 2000 plans intact even if it was economically counterintuitive to do so.
That ended in January 2001. By the spring of that year…and into the summer…on property hotels were seeing 40-60% occupancy at times when they had rocked 97% property wide the couple years prior.

What happened late in the year intensified the problem…it didn’t start it.

Never let a crisis go to waste on Wall Street…however.

You don’t have to believe me…and I don’t want to convince you.

 

[DisneyDodo]

Oddly, this phenomenon did not occur for Disney's Animal Kingdom. Attendance was up 12% the year before DAK opened, but up only 6% (for an entire new theme park!) the year DAK opened.

That probably at least partially explains why Disney has been in no rush to open a 5th gate at WDW, and why they were so quick to expand from 2 to 3 and 3 to 4.