Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
…good eye
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FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was
- Thread starter MisterPenguin
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Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
You mean the very pinnacle of 80’s Gipper largesse? The start of the last run for “blue collar America”?
Park cannibalization. A very old story that no one wants to believe exists each time they start a “fifth gate?” Thread on a board out of sheer boredom
There are two things that happened there. One is a macro issue…this is the “micro”.
but hypothetically to your point about “natazu”…what if they built a big, expansive hotel with the same theme? And what if - hypothetically - they found that the demand didn’t come close to their estimates? Would they have had to then slash prices (which were actually higher than the grand Floridian at opening) almost immediately and see low bookings for years? And would then start something nuts like a “DVC conversion” program there?
nah…”hypothetical”
kong1802
Well-Known Member
You mean the very pinnacle of 80’s Gipper largesse? The start of the last run for “blue collar America”?
Park cannibalization. A very old story that no one wants to believe exists each time they start a “fifth gate?” Thread on a board out of sheer boredom
There are two things that happened there. One is a macro issue…this is the “micro”.
but hypothetically to your point about “natazu”…what if they built a big, expansive hotel with the same theme? And what if - hypothetically - they found that the demand didn’t come close to their estimates? Would they have had to then slash prices (which were actually higher than the grand Floridian at opening) almost immediately and see low bookings for years? And would then start something nuts like a “DVC conversion” program there?
nah…”hypothetical”
That's fascinating. I didn't know they overshot that pricing initially so badly.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
This is why I pointed out that MGM was open for most of 1989 too, though. That's why it was weird the drop only happened in 1990; if it was solely due to park cannibalization you'd think there would have been at least a smaller decline in 1989 as well.
kong1802
Well-Known Member
Instead of fighting these anti maskers I need to quell my boredom with this history.
It is a great hotel, but it really shows that its MK and then the rest.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
Funnily enough, they were right -- at least in terms of overall quality. No other resort on property is comparable to AKL there, although there are obviously other considerations for where people stay.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I didn’t disagree with him. It was the “last hurrah” of Disney decade hotel design.
we just didn’t know it at that time
I think Disney could easily open a 5th gate and have plenty of people to fill it if they offered discounts accordingly. When animal kingdom and MGM opened prices were already much lower so there weren't as many ways to offer "deals". Of course today the company seems more concerned with average guest spend going up every year regardless of how sustainable it might be.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
That would nearly 100% contrary to all their corporate goals in 2021
Right I'm just saying demand or cannibalization wouldn't be much of an issue for Disney today. It is a choice they make to run the current way they do.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
The history of dak actually tells a different story. Park attendance has grown over time as more people flew/take those types of trips…
but the “wall” is about 7 days…they saw signicant increase in length of stay from parks 1-2-3…and it hit the wall at 4 (dak, blizzard, west side, boardwalk, etc)
any other Parks will cannibalize days from others at higher overhead costs…
Jeff4272
Well-Known Member
I just read Len's article and the more and more I hear about what's coming the more frustrated I get.........
The question is, will there be enough pushback to have WDW change? In the past I would say no. But this time, i'm not so sure..........This topic seems very controversial.........
For AP holders, no longer having rope drop hurts them........Also, what's the benefit to having an AP if you need park reservations for it? you cant just go when you want
Resort guest have lost almost all of their incentives.........I don't think WDW will be able to continue to command major premiums for only proximity
Costs are through the roof and if people think the standby lines are going to be lower with fewer FP offerings they are in for a rude awakening
The question is, will there be enough pushback to have WDW change? In the past I would say no. But this time, i'm not so sure..........This topic seems very controversial.........
For AP holders, no longer having rope drop hurts them........Also, what's the benefit to having an AP if you need park reservations for it? you cant just go when you want
Resort guest have lost almost all of their incentives.........I don't think WDW will be able to continue to command major premiums for only proximity
Costs are through the roof and if people think the standby lines are going to be lower with fewer FP offerings they are in for a rude awakening
EeyoreFan#24
Well-Known Member
This is what I think the real issue is too. I usually take the same ammount of days per trip. (4-5). My calander drives the schedule, not the offerings. Disney is good for me at 4 parks, I can do most everything I want at my pace. I would need to squeeze the 5th into that same timeframe, which is doable and I would probably enjoy the content, but same hotel nights, same number of meals, etc. Maybe once in a great while I would add a day if it was that good.
universal was a different boat. It got repetitive (not bad or boring) somewhere on the 3 day. Its a lot easier to shorten a trip(which I am doing next one, already bought) but I look forward to a third gate to fill out the original time.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
They have data…it’s not a guess
blame ‘Merica…which is most of their clientele and recreation/vacations are still frowned upon/viewed as loss or inconvenience to the almighty buck
dsinclair
Active Member
Also blame income. Taking a 7 day vacation no matter the place is quite spendy. When people on this board discuss 14+ day trips, I'm always curious both how they get the vacation time, but also the money to finance it. Unless it's the only vacation for the year, but that never sounds like the case.
kong1802
Well-Known Member
Also the "problem" is that MK will always be the draw. I think it pulls almost 2-1 vs the others.
No matter how many parks they have, this will remain the same.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
That’s easy to answer: they're mostly Europeans - who value rest and aren’t shamed away from vacation and in fact compensated with them in mind…
…or Disney fanatics who would pay anything to stay long as a “badge of honor” that only they see…
…the second type also tend to usually complian about taxes, “freeloaders”, and equate buying tech stocks when they were cheap (as I did) as “back breaking, sweat earned work”…like using a sledgehammer in a rock quarry or something
you often see the second “variant” (bad pun) tossing “club level” and “grand villa” as the “look at me” bait on the hooks too.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
One by one:
1. I haven’t read it…but if Len is saying that construction is going to be locked off…then I would fully agree. That was inevitable no matter what.
2. Nope. This too shall pass and the bill will be paid.
3. The benefit is what it always was: a daily reduction off the bonkers daily price the more you go. More fun…‘ more satisfied each time.
4. The primary incentives are still there:
Most convenient/time saving access
The “D” above the door that makes them feel really proud/special
5. Who knows?…changing fastpass/lines is a big what if? In Orlando
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