FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[WDWTrojan]

FP+ was literally a small portion of the MM+ investment. It started as a way to turn an analog system digital. Then they realized they could use it to redirect crowds and create demand for attractions which were not popular.

If FP was that broken, it would not have remained at Disneyland for this entire time, with the slight addition of MaxPass, which is literally just FP on your phone.

Ironically, what didn't really work was FP+/MM+, as it was supposed to roll out at every single resort across the globe, but it wound up going nowhere beyond Florida because it didn't provide anywhere near the ROI or guest satisfaction they expected.

 

[Jeff4272]

FP+ was literally a small portion of the MM+ investment. It started as a way to turn an analog system digital. Then they realized they could use it to redirect crowds and create demand for attractions which were not popular.

If FP was that broken, it would not have remained at Disneyland for this entire time, with the slight addition of MaxPass, which is. just FP on your phone.

What didn't really work was FP+/MM+, as it was supposed to roll out at every single resort across the globe, but it wound up going nowhere beyond Florida because it didn't provide anywhere near the ROI they expected.

Not true. All of the parks have different systems for a reason. Paper FP was a failure at WDW. If it worked, then we should see it again? Wouldn’t cost them anything to reintroduce it.

which will never happen.

 

[UNCgolf]

Not true. All of the parks have different systems for a reason. Paper FP was a failure at WDW. If it worked, then we should see it again? Wouldn’t cost them anything to reintroduce it.

which will never happen.

It was such a failure they used it for 15 years.

Something being replaced doesn't mean it was a failure. Something newer can be better without the original being a failure -- in fact, if it was actually a failure in Disney's eyes, there would never have been a new version at all. FastPass would have disappeared entirely.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Not true. All of the parks have different systems for a reason. Paper FP was a failure at WDW. If it worked, then we should see it again? Wouldn’t cost them anything to reintroduce it.

which will never happen.

I’m sorry but this is just factually wrong. Truly, factually wrong. They did not invest over $1B in MM+ solely or even mostly for FP+ and they also absolutely did not intend for MM+ to stay only at WDW.

Paper FP lasted 14 years. It was not a failure, but they found a way to digitize it and, better yet, improve it in a way that would save them money by directing crowds to less popular attractions.

It’s not coming back because there’s no reason to bring it back. Also, if FP+ worked so well, you’d see it back already, but alas it is not and will not be coming back.

By your argument FP was a failure. However, here are the dates on their tombstones:

Paper FP: 2000-2013
FP+: 2013-2020

Which one lived longer?

 

[WDWTrojan]

They spent $1B as part of a large expenditure for a wide variety of guest-facing and backend improvements that were designed to optimize crowd flow, increase spending, mine data and a host of other functions.

One facet of this was FP+. The original FP was not broken for its original intention. However, as the system was being proposed, the bean counters realized that there were a number of underutilized attractions. Example: Living with the Land and Spaceship Earth were always walk-ons and being underutilized, the arrival FP+ ensured that these attractions were always meeting their hourly capacity by artificially creating demand via forcing people to select “second tier” attractions. Why did the bean counters like this? Because by distributing the crowds enough, it took some of the demand off the e-tickets and allowed them to rest on their laurels and not build anything new.

They certainly did not spend $1B+ on creating this only for WDW. It was during the terrible “One Disney” phase where they were trying to unify systems, operation and branding across the board (see also: Disney Parks bags & napkins). However MM+ wound up backfiring and the cost trumped any ROI they got on it. This is why it stayed local to Orlando.

 

[wutisgood]

Paper fast pass was a system that could be good or bad depending on ones ability to utilize it well.

MM+ was all about data mining to maximize profits that Disney tried to pass off as a benefit for guests. Specifically after it was implemented prices spiked regularly beyond inflation and staffing and benefits got cut. Touring plans in particular had enough data to know that cuts were impacting wait times. At the time people viewed it as a massive waste of money but it is prob one of the most successful investments ever for Disney from a profit standpoint. But in general the trend of pushing prices to the breaking point using advanced data has been a trend for many other ticket events besides Disney parks. It sucks as a consumer.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Paper fast pass was a system that could be good or bad depending on ones ability to utilize it well.

MM+ was all about data mining to maximize profits that Disney tried to pass off as a benefit for guests. Specifically after it was implemented prices spiked regularly beyond inflation and staffing and benefits got cut. Touring plans in particular had enough data to know that cuts were impacting wait times. At the time people viewed it as a massive waste of money but it is prob one of the most successful investments ever for Disney from a profit standpoint. But in general the trend of pushing prices to the breaking point using advanced data has been a trend for many other ticket events besides Disney parks. It sucks as a consumer.

It's not been a successful investment. Nowhere near what was forecasted. As mentioned above MM+ was intended to be rolled out worldwide, but the cost to implement it was just too high for what their ROI was.

Yes, it increased revenue, but not enough to justify what they spent and doing it at the other resorts (which are a hodgepodge of different systems, so implementing MM+ is not simply a turnkey endeavor) is not worthwhile.

 

[graphite1326]

Not true. All of the parks have different systems for a reason. Paper FP was a failure at WDW. If it worked, then we should see it again? Wouldn’t cost them anything to reintroduce it.

which will never happen.

I am curious. Did it fail because of the tour groups abuse of the system? It was always my theory that is why they started FP+. Or at least part of the reason.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Beyond that, look at a place like the Georgia Aquarium. It's one of the best aquariums in the country (probably the world), but most people aren't going to spend more than 2 hours there. That roughly 2 hour experience will cost you $37. Or a sporting event, where you're likely paying well over $100 (or more, depending on how close you want to be) for 2-3 hours.

I recently went to an Atlanta Braves game and paid $15 for bleacher seats. Infield seats cost $70 or more, sometimes a lot more. Truist park is new and state-of-the-art, a great place to watch a game.

Back in the day, I used to pay $3 for a bleacher seat at Fenway, which converts to about $20 today. Now Fenway bleacher seats start at about $31.

Then I used to pay $10.50 for Golden Box (i.e. infield) seats at Comiskey, about $26 today. When the White Sox opened a new ballpark in 1991, those seats jumped to $25, about $50 today. Now infield seats start at about $40.

The first WDW ticket I paid for myself was in 1983, when I bought a 3-day hopper for $35 (tax included). Converted for inflation, that's about $95.

One of the myths is that WDW once was cheap. WDW never was cheap but today's equivalent of $95 was affordable.

Today, a 3-day hopper ticket will set you back $390 or more!

WDW ticket price increases have been insane.

 

[FantasiaMickey2000]

I’m sorry but this is just factually wrong. Truly, factually wrong. They did not invest over $1B in MM+ solely or even mostly for FP+ and they also absolutely did not intend for MM+ to stay only at WDW.

Paper FP lasted 14 years. It was not a failure, but they found a way to digitize it and, better yet, improve it in a way that would save them money by directing crowds to less popular attractions.

It’s not coming back because there’s no reason to bring it back. Also, if FP+ worked so well, you’d see it back already, but alas it is not and will not be coming back.

By your argument FP was a failure. However, here are the dates on their tombstones:

Paper FP: 2000-2013
FP+: 2013-2020

Which one lived longer?

Apples and oranges. The technology for FP+ and MDE wasn’t available to the masses until smart phones became common place. FP+ ending because of a once in a century pandemic doesn’t mean it was a failure. FP+ worked fine. It’s not coming back right now for the same reason paper fastpasses haven’t come back at DL. They are still working on a paid system. Wanting to charge for something previously free is no indictment on FP+s effectiveness.

 

[dovetail65]

I recently went to an Atlanta Braves game and paid $15 for bleacher seats. Infield seats cost $70 or more, sometimes a lot more. Truist park is new and state-of-the-art, a great place to watch a game.

Back in the day, I used to pay $3 for a bleacher seat at Fenway, which converts to about $20 today. Now Fenway bleacher seats start at about $31.

Then I used to used to pay $10.50 for Golden Box (i.e. infield) seats at Comiskey, about $26 today. When the White Sox opened a new ballpark in 1991, those seats jumped to $25, about $50 today. Now infield seats start at about $40.

The first WDW ticket I paid for myself was in 1983, when I bought a 3-day hopper for $35 (tax included). Converted for inflation, that's about $95.

One of the myths is that WDW once was cheap. WDW never was cheap but today's equivalent of $95 was affordable.

Today, a 3-day hopper ticket will set you back $390 or more!

WDW ticket price increases have been insane.

I just do not agree, the park entrance costs are in line. Even from you own numbers they are not out of line. Your 3 dollar ticket went to 31 which is 10.1 times more and our 35 dollar 3 Day hopper is about 11.1 times more, but Dinsy has two more parks now and the overhead is spread across the entire 4 park system.

Why not take a ten day ticket or a 4 day local at WDW at 54 a day and compare to an NFL game nosebleed at 151.00. I can compare so many things that show the actual park fees are not that expensive

I think the pricing is actually very good for what we get compared to many things, but taking away3 free Fp in any form changes that up for many people. Once the FP goes paid the prices may seem outrageous compared to what we had only 18 months ago. Going to a paid FP is a far more outrageous increase than over the last 30 years. It will be an overnight increase that has neer been seen especially for anyone that had any luck using FP like we did.

 

[flynnibus]

I just do not agree, the park entrance costs are in line. Even from you own numbers they are not out of line. Your 3 dollar ticket went to 31 which is 10.1 times more and our 35 dollar 3 Day hopper is about 11.1 times more, but Dinsy has two more parks now and the overhead is spread across the entire 4 park system.

Why not take a ten day ticket or a 4 day local at WDW at 54 a day and compare to an NFL game nosebleed at 151.00. I can compare so many things that show the actual park fees are not that expensive

when you compare unlike things you can draw an unlimited number of false conclusions too.

why are nfl tickets so much more than baseball? Because there are only 8 home games… not 80 plus. Why is the nba so expensive? Small arenas

the magic kingdom alone has more attendance then the entirety of the nfl each year.

you are comparing entertainment- but not like products or products that are consumed the same.

might as well compare the cost of high end spirits to soda…. They are both drinks right??

 

[wutisgood]

I think the pricing is actually very good for what we get compared to many things, but taking away3 free Fp in any form changes that up for many people. Once the FP goes paid the prices may seem outrageous compared to what we had only 18 months ago. Going to a paid FP is a far more outrageous increase than over the last 30 years. It will be an overnight increase that has neer been seen especially for anyone that had any luck using FP like we did.

Pricing is very good for a a place that was already not cheap and has continually cut services while raising prices beyond inflation? I want whatever you are smoking.

Is that you Bob?

 

[UNCgolf]

I recently went to an Atlanta Braves game and paid $15 for bleacher seats. Infield seats cost $70 or more, sometimes a lot more. Truist park is new and state-of-the-art, a great place to watch a game.

Back in the day, I used to pay $3 for a bleacher seat at Fenway, which converts to about $20 today. Now Fenway bleacher seats start at about $31.

Then I used to pay $10.50 for Golden Box (i.e. infield) seats at Comiskey, about $26 today. When the White Sox opened a new ballpark in 1991, those seats jumped to $25, about $50 today. Now infield seats start at about $40.

The first WDW ticket I paid for myself was in 1983, when I bought a 3-day hopper for $35 (tax included). Converted for inflation, that's about $95.

One of the myths is that WDW once was cheap. WDW never was cheap but today's equivalent of $95 was affordable.

Today, a 3-day hopper ticket will set you back $390 or more!

WDW ticket price increases have been insane.

You're obviously arguing the opposite, but everything you just posted sounds like it supports what I'm saying to me! All prices have increased tremendously in the past few decades. The best comparison is Universal, and Universal tickets and Disney tickets are pretty comparable. Disney is a bit more expensive, but that's to be expected considering there are twice as many parks and the overall demand is higher.

It's the cost of everything else at Disney that's ballooned wildly out of control. The food prices, the hotel prices, etc. are far higher than they should be for the quality offered. If I knew absolutely nothing about Disney and you described it to me, then told me the price for a ticket, it would be roughly in line with my expectations.

I mentioned this above, but it's a bit more complicated than that because the ticket price feels normal assuming you can actually experience most of what's offered in the park. That's not really true now due to crowding and lack of capacity, which throws off the analysis. Lowering the ticket prices wouldn't make that better, though -- it would make it worse. Even more people would be in the parks.

The problem isn't the admission ticket price; it's the fact that they haven't added nearly enough attraction capacity.


EDIT: With all that said, I'm sure part of the disconnect between me and some others is that I live in a large city (although you clearly do too, or at least did at one point) where everything costs more. I pay $75 to play golf for four hours, and it's not even on an especially nice course -- it's just what's available. When I occasionally play somewhere that is very good, it costs far more. The last time I was at WDW (winter 2020), I was only paying about $25 more than that for a full day park hopper ticket. That doesn't seem bad at all.

 

[RSoxNo1]

For the same reasons they got rid of paper fastpass

So it will fail because they want to respond to Harry Potter with infrastructure? I'm not trying to play dumb here, I'm legit confused by what you're suggesting as to why Max Pass wouldn't work.

 

[G00fyDad]

No word on fast passes yet?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not true. All of the parks have different systems for a reason. Paper FP was a failure at WDW. If it worked, then we should see it again? Wouldn’t cost them anything to reintroduce it.

which will never happen.

You don’t seem to remember anything about paper fastpass in Orlando…it worked fine. It was “replaced” for the reasons you keep being told and won’t listen to: they needed a massive overhead expense in a computer upgrade and needed window dressing for it. That is exactly what happened and exactly why they unceremoniously killed it last spring

I’m sorry but this is just factually wrong. Truly, factually wrong. They did not invest over $1B in MM+ solely or even mostly for FP+ and they also absolutely did not intend for MM+ to stay only at WDW.

Paper FP lasted 14 years. It was not a failure, but they found a way to digitize it and, better yet, improve it in a way that would save them money by directing crowds to less popular attractions.

It’s not coming back because there’s no reason to bring it back. Also, if FP+ worked so well, you’d see it back already, but alas it is not and will not be coming back.

By your argument FP was a failure. However, here are the dates on their tombstones:

Paper FP: 2000-2013
FP+: 2013-2020

Which one lived longer?

throw everything you’ve got at the borg shields, Mr. Worf!!!

 

[crazy4disney]

You're obviously arguing the opposite, but everything you just posted sounds like it supports what I'm saying to me! All prices have increased tremendously in the past few decades. The best comparison is Universal, and Universal tickets and Disney tickets are pretty comparable. Disney is a bit more expensive, but that's to be expected considering there are twice as many parks and the overall demand is higher.

It's the cost of everything else at Disney that's ballooned wildly out of control. The food prices, the hotel prices, etc. are far higher than they should be for the quality offered. If I knew absolutely nothing about Disney and you described it to me, then told me the price for a ticket, it would be roughly in line with my expectations.

I mentioned this above, but it's a bit more complicated than that because the ticket price feels normal assuming you can actually experience most of what's offered in the park. That's not really true now due to crowding and lack of capacity, which throws off the analysis. Lowering the ticket prices wouldn't make that better, though -- it would make it worse. Even more people would be in the parks.

The problem isn't the admission ticket price; it's the fact that they haven't added nearly enough attraction capacity.


EDIT: With all that said, I'm sure part of the disconnect between me and some others is that I live in a large city (although you clearly do too, or at least did at one point) where everything costs more. I pay $75 to play golf for four hours, and it's not even on an especially nice course -- it's just what's available. When I occasionally play somewhere that is very good, it costs far more. The last time I was at WDW (winter 2020), I was only paying about $25 more than that for a full day park hopper ticket. That doesn't seem bad at all.

You're obviously arguing the opposite, but everything you just posted sounds like it supports what I'm saying to me! All prices have increased tremendously in the past few decades. The best comparison is Universal, and Universal tickets and Disney tickets are pretty comparable. Disney is a bit more expensive, but that's to be expected considering there are twice as many parks and the overall demand is higher.

It's the cost of everything else at Disney that's ballooned wildly out of control. The food prices, the hotel prices, etc. are far higher than they should be for the quality offered. If I knew absolutely nothing about Disney and you described it to me, then told me the price for a ticket, it would be roughly in line with my expectations.

I mentioned this above, but it's a bit more complicated than that because the ticket price feels normal assuming you can actually experience most of what's offered in the park. That's not really true now due to crowding and lack of capacity, which throws off the analysis. Lowering the ticket prices wouldn't make that better, though -- it would make it worse. Even more people would be in the parks.

The problem isn't the admission ticket price; it's the fact that they haven't added nearly enough attraction capacity.


EDIT: With all that said, I'm sure part of the disconnect between me and some others is that I live in a large city (although you clearly do too, or at least did at one point) where everything costs more. I pay $75 to play golf for four hours, and it's not even on an especially nice course -- it's just what's available. When I occasionally play somewhere that is very good, it costs far more. The last time I was at WDW (winter 2020), I was only paying about $25 more than that for a full day park hopper ticket. That doesn't seem bad at all.

In regards to the price of Disney and comparison. I like to use my other trips i go on annually. Which consist of Hershey Park/Great Wolf Lodge/Kalahari Resorts all in that same category as Disney as far as theme parks/water park/amusement parks. It cost around $700 a day for these all in. Now i also go to Ocean City and Wildwood (beach resorts) but also have piers with rides and games etc. these actually run me slightly more after its all said and done. Now lets do Disney. Granted i stay value (to me pointless if im only gonna be sleeping and showering in room) my average daily cost is slightly cheaper than all other vacations for the Disney portion and that includes a DDP and 2 party tickets as well usually for 10 days around Thanksgiving time along with a decent amount of souvenirs to bring home. We do all character meals so DDP is “worth” it. Add in the “free” Dining Offer the savings get even more say another $70 per day and this. And when you add in Flights and rental car the price all in is not that much more. So yes i agree the Disney product has diminished as far as Parks and Resorts go been saying it for a couple years now but guilty by continuing to go but part of that reason is they are to me in line if not cheaper than some of the other similar products around. Now here comes the issue. NO dining plan currently. We all are assuming FP will now be a paid version. This will increase the cost astronomically which even tho i can afford does not mean i will pay it nor go as this may put me over the edge to an experience that will no longer be worth it.

 

[Hawg G]

FP+ was literally a small portion of the MM+ investment. It started as a way to turn an analog system digital. Then they realized they could use it to redirect crowds and create demand for attractions which were not popular.

If FP was that broken, it would not have remained at Disneyland for this entire time, with the slight addition of MaxPass, which is literally just FP on your phone.

Ironically, what didn't really work was FP+/MM+, as it was supposed to roll out at every single resort across the globe, but it wound up going nowhere beyond Florida because it didn't provide anywhere near the ROI or guest satisfaction they expected.

Funny, I recall a few folks saying it was a horrid change, and the usuals saying how wonderful it was.

 

[Hawg G]

In regards to the price of Disney and comparison. I like to use my other trips i go on annually. Which consist of Hershey Park/Great Wolf Lodge/Kalahari Resorts all in that same category as Disney as far as theme parks/water park/amusement parks. It cost around $700 a day for these all in. Now i also go to Ocean City and Wildwood (beach resorts) but also have piers with rides and games etc. these actually run me slightly more after its all said and done. Now lets do Disney. Granted i stay value (to me pointless if im only gonna be sleeping and showering in room) my average daily cost is slightly cheaper than all other vacations for the Disney portion and that includes a DDP and 2 party tickets as well usually for 10 days around Thanksgiving time along with a decent amount of souvenirs to bring home. We do all character meals so DDP is “worth” it. Add in the “free” Dining Offer the savings get even more say another $70 per day and this. And when you add in Flights and rental car the price all in is not that much more. So yes i agree the Disney product has diminished as far as Parks and Resorts go been saying it for a couple years now but guilty by continuing to go but part of that reason is they are to me in line if not cheaper than some of the other similar products around. Now here comes the issue. NO dining plan currently. We all are assuming FP will now be a paid version. This will increase the cost astronomically which even tho i can afford does not mean i will pay it nor go as this may put me over the edge to an experience that will no longer be worth it.

I know no universe where a trip to Hersheypark is even remotely close to WDW.