FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[MrPromey]

You must be confusing me with someone else, because I've never bragged about not waiting more than 25 minutes. All I've said is that I enjoyed and benefitted from FP+.

While I don't fully understand the point you've been trying to make, I don't believe I've grossly mischaracterised the tone of your rhetoric. Indeed, I simply repeated the terms and concepts that you yourself introduced.

At any rate, I'm here to discuss, not argue. I didn't mean to cause any offence.

Your right, I am confusing you. There were too other people talking about the 25 minute thing.

One was just explaining how they won't wait it (and may skip things as a result) and the other was the one that was more bragging. I got you mixed up with the second one - my apologies.

 

[Waters Back Side]

Sure - but for a few reasons
1) the MK is still way behind/overdue for more attraction capacity given the crowds they push in it - incremental bumps don't wipe out the larger deficit
2) TRON is a low capacity ride
3) You can't really compare the impacts during 'new/fresh' periods - what we are talking about here is more once the attraction and park reach a more steady state

New fantasyland was the first real 'growth' in the park in basically 20 years... while many things have reduced, and others have only turned over, and others stagnant.

The park needs attractions of length that people want to do. Unfortunately TRON is not length nor is it high capacity. So it's an example of probably creating more load then gain.

Here is the thing though...when Tron is completed, it will definitely pull guests away from Spsce Mountain because of the novelty and anticipation right next to it. However Space Mountain will still have long periods of 60 minute waits. They doubled in attractions in that confined area of space and it improved bit not enough. Just like when Maelstrom was reimagined into Frozen (which btw is vastly overrated). Nothing was added onto open space sure. But it was a new experience. And Test Track is still always 60 minutee or more.

And there will be a large group of people that will feel their experience is hampered due to...lines.

 

[el_super]

The park needs attractions of length that people want to do. Unfortunately TRON is not length nor is it high capacity. So it's an example of probably creating more load then gain.

TRON is generally, a terrible idea, but surely Disney has a reason for picking it.

I fullly expect one or multiple attractions will go down for a multi-year rehab/replacement as soon as TRON is open.

 

[el_super]

However Space Mountain will still have long periods of 60 minute waits.

Moreso if TRON is generating additional guest visits to the park (which is what new attractions do). More people in the park = longer lines.

If things stayed status quo through the opening of TRON, lots of attractions in MK would see wait times go UP and Fastpass availability would shift to TRON, Mine Train and .... ????

 

[UNCgolf]

Moreso if TRON is generating additional guest visits to the park (which is what new attractions do). More people in the park = longer lines.

I'm not sure this is really true anymore -- especially at the Magic Kingdom.

Not that there won't be some people that show up specifically for the new ride, but it's likely to be a short-term issue right when the ride first opens. So many people attend Disney year round now that I don't think there's a very large population just sitting around and only planning a trip to correspond with a new ride.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I'm not sure this is really true anymore -- especially at the Magic Kingdom.

Not that there won't be some people that show up specifically for the new ride, but it's likely to be a short-term issue right when the ride first opens. So many people attend Disney year round now that I don't think there's a very large population just sitting around and only planning a trip to correspond with a new ride.

Not taking into account Galaxy's Edge (because that tapped into an enormous fandom that previously weren't likely to have visited the parks), I agree. I don't think new attractions are going to cause huge attendance spikes anymore, generally speaking.

 

[UNCgolf]

Not taking into account Galaxy's Edge (because that tapped into an enormous fandom that previously weren't likely to have visited the parks), I agree. I don't think new attractions are going to cause huge attendance spikes anymore, generally speaking.

And even Galaxy's Edge didn't dramatically increase attendance/cause huge crowds at DHS. Disney had that whole system in place to manage it and it was never really necessary.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

And even Galaxy's Edge didn't dramatically increase attendance/cause huge crowds at DHS. Disney had that whole system in place to manage it and it was never really necessary.

I'm wondering what the opening of the Halcyon is going to look like...

 

[hopemax]

I hate to agree but I think thats exactly what TWDC has planned. Its always been crazy to me that it took soooo long to add new attractions to any of the WDW parks. Look how fast Hagrids and Veloci COaster went up at Uni. Not to mention how long HP stuff took compared to Pandora......

I am curious to experience Secret Life of Pets too. Everyone said, "Universal has too many screenz!" And then we got Hagrid's, Velocicoaster; the west coast got SLOP and Nintendo stuff is in the pipeline. Feels like they listened.

Whatever Disney ends up with post-pandemic, will run smack into Universal's vision of the modern day theme park experience at Epic Universe. I was so happy that Hogsmeade got built because it was the perfect representation of what everyone in forums said for years, couldn't happen in modern theme parks. And then they did it again with Diagon Alley. It's amazing to realize that Forbidden Journey is now 11 years old. I am eager to see what lessons Universal learned. The "misses" with Fallon, Kong (not a miss with me, but I can see why it is to others) and Fast and the Furious represented lessons too. In the past, whatever good Universal did, WDW benefited from by proximity. But how long can that continue if it's too expensive to do both?

 

[jpinkc]

I just hope I like Galaxys Edge as much as I like the Wizarding World over at Universal. They truely went all out on the Harry Potter stuff.

 

[flynnibus]

Here is the thing though...when Tron is completed, it will definitely pull guests away from Spsce Mountain because of the novelty and anticipation right next to it. However Space Mountain will still have long periods of 60 minute waits. They doubled in attractions in that confined area of space and it improved bit not enough. Just like when Maelstrom was reimagined into Frozen (which btw is vastly overrated). Nothing was added onto open space sure. But it was a new experience. And Test Track is still always 60 minutee or more.

And there will be a large group of people that will feel their experience is hampered due to...lines.

Headliner attractions will always have lines that are long. 60mins isn't a big deal... what they need to avoid is the line being abnormally long.. like 3hrs+... or one ride being a hour wait while everything else is <15mins. The huge variances or choke points for a style of attraction is what you try to avoid.

Something like Space will in general have short lines vs the lesser attractions around it.

What matters is not 'a 60min wait' vs a '45min wait' - wait times are always going to be a function of the attractions desirability and the crowd level.

What matters is the ability for the park to spread the load among different attractions effectively, vs being very lopsided.. where one thing is oversubscribed radically while others are under utilized. This is what solutions like FP+ try to diffuse by indirectly directing crowds away from the peak to where there is availability. Doing it with actual desirable attractions and capacity is the less-artificial way to do the same thing... pull vs push.

In the case of something like MK... a E-ticket like space may always have a 60min wait on a normal day.... but adding another C/D ticket can shorten up the lines elsewhere.... or keep space's line from growing abnormally large compared to the rest of the park.

Desirability will always keep the higher demand attractions higher than the peers... the key is to spread that load to keep it from becoming lopsided.

 

[bcoachable]

I just hope I like Galaxys Edge as much as I like the Wizarding World over at Universal. They truely went all out on the Harry Potter stuff.

I am anxious to hear what you have to say after you have had the chance to compare the two…

 

[flynnibus]

I'm wondering what the opening of the Halcyon is going to look like...

Negligible... because Disney is capping it's capacity.

This is the recurring theme... crowds aren't such a sore if you don't try to stuff 15lbs into a 5lb bag

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Negligible... because Disney is capping it's capacity.

This is the recurring theme... crowds aren't such a sore if you don't try to stuff 15lbs into a 5lb bag

Oh, I realize that. What I'm wondering is if those who are among the first to stay are people who would have been going at that time anyways and just stayed elsewhere if it didn't exist, or if people are going to come specifically for that resort and Galaxy's Edge.

 

[flynnibus]

Oh, I realize that. What I'm wondering is if those who are among the first to stay are people who would have been going at that time anyways and just stayed elsewhere if it didn't exist, or if people are going to come specifically for that resort and Galaxy's Edge.

The latter - by far. This is an event - no one will 'fall into' booking this because they planned on being at WDW and just found this as an alternate

 

[Willmark]

I'm wondering at what point people start to actually feel that they're being herded and squeezed...because that's exactly what Corporate is doing and thinks they can continue to do more and more.

I’ve used the phraseology of cattle on the site for years.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

The latter - by far. This is an event - no one will 'fall into' booking this because they planned on being at WDW and just found this as an alternate

I should have been more clear...

I don't think this is going to draw huge numbers of Star Wars fans that weren't already big fans of Disney.

 

[G00fyDad]

Well not just that DPA, Genie, Genie+ ... oh and have heard that DPA may be coming to water parks. Enjoy.

 

[hopemax]

Headliner attractions will always have lines that are long. 60mins isn't a big deal... what they need to avoid is the line being abnormally long.. like 3hrs+... or one ride being a hour wait while everything else is <15mins. The huge variances or choke points for a style of attraction is what you try to avoid.

Something like Space will in general have short lines vs the lesser attractions around it.

What matters is not 'a 60min wait' vs a '45min wait' - wait times are always going to be a function of the attractions desirability and the crowd level.

What matters is the ability for the park to spread the load among different attractions effectively, vs being very lopsided.. where one thing is oversubscribed radically while others are under utilized. This is what solutions like FP+ try to diffuse by indirectly directing crowds away from the peak to where there is availability. Doing it with actual desirable attractions and capacity is the less-artificial way to do the same thing... pull vs push.

In the case of something like MK... a E-ticket like space may always have a 60min wait on a normal day.... but adding another C/D ticket can shorten up the lines elsewhere.... or keep space's line from growing abnormally large compared to the rest of the park.

Desirability will always keep the higher demand attractions higher than the peers... the key is to spread that load to keep it from becoming lopsided.

After going through all of this for the upteenth million time, I started thinking about what if FP never gave you "20 minutes or less." Which was way too cheap for free. Like the Marvel, "What If" show. What if it was a way to return people to what should be the "expected" wait for that ride category. If E-Tickets should be 60 minutes and the queue is 90 or 120 minutes. You can get a pass to come back later and ride with a 60 minute wait. You reallocate FP space back to standby to make sure the line is 60, and all the people who are unwilling to wait 60 don't gobble up all the freebies ahead of those that were. And since the benefit really isn't much real time, maybe then you do go into a store or have a snack instead of hopping into another queue. The question I've been asking this time around is why the most demanding guests, the most impatient guests should have their experienced prioritized over others willing to wait.

The technology and algorithms maybe weren't good enough to do it when FP started. And now the tools exist, but people won't go for it when they've been conditioned to 20 or less. The standby pass seems like it is an attempt to do something like this. But at the cost of other people's ability to be in a standby at all. And Disney still wants to charge for "20 min or less."

The main problem remains 30,000 people trying to squeeze themselves into a space that only serves 20,000. We're still just trying to solve who gets the finite capacity.

 

[pdude81]

After going through all of this for the upteenth million time, I started thinking about what if FP never gave you "20 minutes or less." Which was way to cheap for free. Like the Marvel, "What If" show. What if it was a way to return people to what should be the "expected" wait for that ride category. If E-Tickets should be 60 minutes and the queue is 90 or 120 minutes. You can get a pass to come back later and ride with a 60 minute wait. You reallocate FP space back to standby to make sure the line is 60, and all the people who are unwilling to wait 60 don't gobble up all the freebies ahead of those that were. And since the benefit really isn't much real time, maybe then you do go into a store or have a snack instead of hopping into another queue. The question I've been asking this time around is why the most demanding guests, the most impatient guests should have their experienced prioritized over others willing to wait.

The technology and algorithms maybe weren't good enough to do it when FP started. And now the tools exist, but people won't go for it when they've been conditioned to 20 or less. The standby pass seems like it is an attempt to do something like this. But at the cost of other people's ability to be in a standby at all. And Disney still wants to charge for "20 min or less."

The main problem remains 30,000 people trying to squeeze themselves into a space that only serves 20,000. We're still just trying to solve who gets the finite capacity.

You mean standby pass? I thought they announced that too. Unless you mean that you would show up 2 hours later from a posted 2 hour wait and walk in rather than 1 hour or standby wait and 1 hour of line wait. In that circumstance, any line that has a physical option would be wrecked.

Unless of course all lines were digital... but then nobody knows how long they really are except the mouse.

edit: now I think I understand your post better. 10 pounds of $$$$ in a 5lb bag.