Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
I understand that and I have no issue with how people do the parks. For me the only reason I would spend that kind of money for Disney is to ride attractions.
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FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was
- Thread starter MisterPenguin
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MrPromey
Well-Known Member
More than that, it's a matter of sheer numbers. Look at how many seats are available for FOP in a given day. Look at how many seats are available for 7DMT. Is that more or less than the number of people visiting the respective park?
So right off the bat, the number of people that want to do these attractions is likely above the number of people who can. Now add a layer of FP to that and the number of people who would like to do these attractions with a 25 minute or less wait, far exceeds the number of people who can.
Congrats to you both if 100% of the time, you've always fallen into the category of the "haves" with every single day of every single trip you've ever made. For most "normal" guests, that number is closer to 0% and for it to work so well for you, that has to be the case.*
Also consider that even just since the time of those two attractions opening attendance has continued to rise meaning more people wanting your ideal goodness and even fewer by percentage being able to find it.
So the good argument is, it wouldn't be practical for Disney to make something like FOP and 7DMT large enough to accommodate all those people. It just wouldn't make sense.
That's true but what would make sense, is to have more attractions of that caliber and "freshness" in each park so that overall, guests all get to feel like they have a crack at a headliner.
Disney hasn't done this.
Instead, they attempted to use FP+ to avoid it.
So I think a lot of the animosity towards FP+ that you feel is discounting your experience, is based on the fact that it alone, has not sustained the growth in visitors that Disney somehow thought it would because shockingly, people didn't think triceraTop Spin was a suitable substitute for FOP.
Even with the projects already under construction, it's a matter of too little, too late. Once those are complete, do you think Test Track and Soarin' are suddenly going to have short waits?
FP+ could have worked wonderfully for a majority of guests if they'd had the capacity in top tier attractions to accommodate it but in at least two out of the three parks, it was painfully obvious from the very start that they did not.
If it always worked without fail for you, cool. Just remember, for every person who made it onto a life raft on the Titanic, there were enough of them, too.
Sorry, I know that last line was a bit dramatic.
Anyway, I don't personally think any system they've thus tried would "work" with the current spread of attractions on offer and modern crowd levels. That includes FP+, FP, and just regular old standby-only lines... especially in a more instant gratification crowd who refuses to wait more than 25 minutes and would not wait an hour, even though there are plenty of people now waiting 2 hours in standby to give them that 25 minute wait.
I don't like what appears to be coming any more than anyone else, though, to be clear.
*it doesn't really matter if the cause is you being able to book at 60 days and them not being able to, you using they system while they totally ignore it, you knowing better what things "need" fast-pass or not or being willing to commando to get all those passes by refreshing the app all day, etc. For you to win at that level, there has to be someone who looses equally because that's how it always works in situations of scarcity.
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EricsBiscuit
Well-Known Member
International travelers who have previously never been to the parks and have 0 idea of what to expect. The combination of a language barrier and no previous experience would ruin their trip with this incredibly stupid system that they’re proposing.
EricsBiscuit
Well-Known Member
If it goes to all virtual queues with paid FP, I’m canceling my AP and never going back. That’s my line in the sand. What an incredibly stupid idea.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
More than a little.
To read posts like yours, you'd think I (and others) had cracked some impossible code in order to use FP+ effectively, when all I did was wake up early to make my advance reservations and refresh the app fairly often once in the parks. To frame this in life-or-death terms, or as a case of "haves" and "have nots", is not only dramatic but also fairly insulting to people like me who simply availed ourselves of a system open to all.
I think people need to remember that a Disney holiday is a luxury undertaken voluntarily, not some God-given right.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
Cool!
You do that!
More room for the people willing to pay full daily retail rate who are also willing to book a room, do a dessert party, and pay for premier fastpass access.
Sounds like a win for Disney!
Unfortunately, TDO's wins and our wins as guests are largely no-longer aligned.
Hopefully this is much ado over nothing and the rumors and speculation are all wrong.
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People have been determining for the past dozen pages who regards whom as stupid.
flynnibus
Premium Member
No, it's just the opposite. People don't acknowledge or face that the model they hold dear FORCES everyone to stick to that model vs being one that is adaptive and serving multiple audiences.
When people resort to "It works for me, sucks for you" -- that's what it really means. They don't care the system is exclusionary because they get what they want.
Like the people that say "I never wait more than 25mins"... do they really think that happens for EVERYONE? They happily ignore that an average means there are people above, and below the average. But as long as they are on the lean side... they don't care how bad it can be on the other side.
It literally is people not caring about the bigger picture as long as their own itches are scratched.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
All true but if everyone availed themselves of the system the way you do, you'd be miserable.
That's the part you seem to either not see or choose to ignore and that's the point I'm trying to make which is that in order for it to work as well as it does for you, it has to work equally (relatively speaking) unwell for others.
Sorry if you find that insulting.
I don't know what else to say.
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
I'm sure that those who didn't use FP had their reasons and they are varied. Some wanted to be more spontaneous and not put forth the effort before the trip. Some couldn't for various reasons. However, for those that used the system and implemented it correctly, there was no drawback to it. I'd much rather use the non-vacation time before the trip to plan than to have to plan every move while it's happening in real time. We were fine with doing the 3 fast pass rides/experiences before lunch and then land more during lunch. It beats getting into the park and THEN having to decide what to FP rather than getting a ride or two in during that time. Even during spring break, there were plenty of FP's left after our first 3 were done.
What made FP+ work the best, in my opinion, is that not everyone used it. It was there for everyone to use in the same way, but not everyone did. It would be a truly broken system if it were not equally available for everyone.
We found that dining reservations for the top spots (Be Our Guest, Cinderella Castle, etc.) were more restrictive and difficult to land than rides. If you wanted an optimal reservation for restaurants and were staying on-site, waking up on the 180 day mark was more essential. For rides, waking up at the break of dawn on the 60-day mark was not that important. Maybe it was for FoP, but that wasn't even available at all for anyone using FP. Everything else had plenty of spots. That's probably because the rides are open all day and, for meals, you want a time that is around meal time.
WannaGoNow
Active Member
People have been priced out of Disney theme parks since 1955. I don’t see people here complaining that most families living at or below the poverty line - which is 2021 is projected to be 1 in 7 Americans - in all likelihood have never been able to save enough money to visit WDW even once. It’s always been a place for people with enough discretionary income to afford it. And price has always been Disney’s favorite method of gate control. I went to a presentation while in business school by Disney executives who were open about the strategy. The goal was to never shut their gates, to never say no to the guest who walks up on the day of, if they can help it. So they use price to ensure not everyone can walk up on the day of, and to keep a Disney vacation aspirational instead of common and ordinary.
Sucks when Disney’s pricing gate controls become so expensive they affect one personally - I remember when the price of premium annual passes started to skyrocket at DLR after being relatively affordable for years and being extremely salty about it - but trying to pretend Disney theme parks are supposed to be an eglatarian utopia and only now is Disney trying to gouge the hardworking average Joe is... pretty amusing.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
Thing is, it would also be a truly broken system if people used it, equally.
You're absolutely right, it worked because not everyone used it which is also one of the reasons the original FP worked for those who used it.
I have, myself, exploited that with both systems over the years many times - I won't deny. (although from the sounds of it, not nearly as well as others around here)
Heck, I remember briskly walking with my party at rope drop to TSMM to get paper fastpasses for later, and then hoping on the ride with almost no wait. I didn't realize or understand at the time but that essentially meant two groups of people wouldn't get to ride that day as a result of us getting to ride it twice.
When the system is that easy to game, it's broken.
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MrPromey
Well-Known Member
You're responding to me so I assume you think that's what I'm doing? Getting mad because it affects me, personally?
I get Florida pricing and I'm close enough that the decision to stay on property, close off property, or to just drive round trip in a day is all an option. I'll be one of the last groups priced out of the middle-class on all of this, personally.
That doesn't mean I'm happy about any of it, though and unless you're wealthy enough to throw money around and not worry about where any of it lands, I'm not sure why you would be either... and if you are that wealthy, why are you wasting your time with Walt Disney World?
There are way better options open to you.
The point I'm trying to make is, it seems like Disney is taking an approach that they will make enough return in gouging the top end and lobbing off the bottom end of their audience while ignoring that the bottom end is likely the majority of their audience. (which by the rooms they have built for, seems to indicate they know)
And what are they doing to court this top end? It seems, mostly offering what they have to the bottom end for 50 years but now acting like it's something exclusive.
This is the direction they've been picking up pace towards for a few years now but they clearly have yet to hit the equilibrium.
Are there enough people at the top end foolish enough to fall for that?
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ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
It's very similar to a HUGE freakout someone had in my FB group...she was APPALLED that the lawsuit over DAS front-of-line access didn't result in that privilege being restored. No matter how many times people explained that it was too easily gamed and that it was so bad it became useless to those who needed it most, she didn't care. She was adamant that her autistic grandson should get front-of-line access no matter how miserable it made going to Disney...because she just didn't see that it would have made Disney miserable for her grandson, too.
HoustonHorn
Premium Member
This thread contains some of the best uses of the "Ignore" feature on this site and is also the best example of our need for an "eyeroll" emoji under the "Like" menu.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
The issue has to do with people not willing to accept change is coming.
Because for some of us, WDW isn't just about rides. We normally stay 8-9 days, multiple times per year, and on a few of those trips, while we visited a park every day, we didn't ride a single attraction until day 5 or 6. People visit in all kinds of ways.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
I would understand that if you have an AP. To buy a ticket package and waste that money makes no sense to me.
Yes, we have APs, but we are not locals by any means. Hmm, waste money is certainly up to the individual. What is a waste to you, is not to others. Just like some are willing to fork over extra for the night time events, and others are not.
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