FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[DisneyHead123]

If the Paris system gets implemented at Disney, I will actually be curious to see the psychology of how people react to it. I find myself disliking it, because it just “feels wrong.” When I sit back and run the logistics of the way I’ve spent money at Disney in the past - dessert party tickets, Halloween party tickets, etc. - I have to admit that financially my attitude probably doesn’t make sense, in terms of sheer numbers. But something about paying for an “extra”, vs. getting out your credit card and paying endless upcharges on an experience you’ve already paid for once, really rankles. I’ve gone from a sense of escapism in mentally planning my next visit all the time to thinking that it would be better to wait 4 or 5 years until my son is older. Which maybe in Disney’s mind is the point - not to drive guests away entirely but to slow visit rates and stagger them much more.

That said, I also dislike new things in general sometimes. It’s possible I’d end up liking such a system in the long run, who knows? Again, in terms of consumer psychology, this will be an interesting one if it happens.

 

[LittleBuford]

All true but if everyone availed themselves of the system the way you do, you'd be miserable.

That's the part you seem to either not see or choose to ignore and that's the point I'm trying to make which is that in order for it to work as well as it does for you, it has to work equally (relatively speaking) unwell for others.

Sorry if you find that insulting.

I don't know what else to say.

Talk about a First World notion of misery! As much as I care about fairness in society, I have a hard time mapping such concerns onto WDW, just as I don't feel guilty for reserving the best seats in the cinema or that nice table over by the window at my favourite restaurant. We're talking about a theme park, for goodness' sake.

 

[WannaGoNow]

You're responding to me so I assume you think that's what I'm doing? Getting mad because it affects me personally?

I get Florida pricing and I'm close enough that the decision to stay on property, close off property, or to just drive round trip in a day is all an option. I'll be one of the last groups priced out of the middle-class on all of this, personally.

That doesn't mean I'm happy about any of it, though.

The point I'm trying to make is, it seems like Disney is taking an approach that they will make enough return in gouging the top end and lobbing off the bottom end of their audience while ignoring that the bottom end is likely the majority of their audience.

And what are they doing to court this top end? It seems, mostly offering what they have to the bottom end for 50 years but now acting like it's something exclusive.

This is the direction they've been picking up pace towards for a few years now but they clearly have yet to hit the equilibrium.

Are there enough people at the top end foolish enough to fall for that?

Sorry, didn’t mean to address you personally - that was just the latest post claiming Disney doesn’t appear to understand the consequences of its pricing. I’m of the opinion they know all too well and it’s a deliberate strategy that is constantly under analysis.

You said it yourself: they clearly have yet to hit equilibrium. They raise prices and lower benefits, and still people pack the parks. This suggests they have even more room to raise prices and decrease costs to get to their desired metric.

And when they fall below that metric: then they will discount prices and increase guest benefits.

Also? The Walt Disney Company lost $7 billion last year and supply chains and the labor market, among other aspects of the economy, are still shaking themselves out after the pandemic. What things look like now are not what things will look like two or five years from now.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

International travelers who have previously never been to the parks and have 0 idea of what to expect. The combination of a language barrier and no previous experience would ruin their trip with this incredibly stupid system that they’re proposing.

15-20% of the total…and a decent percentage of repeats there too on Holiday

 

[LittleBuford]

No, it's just the opposite. People don't acknowledge or face that the model they hold dear FORCES everyone to stick to that model vs being one that is adaptive and serving multiple audiences.

But multiple people in this very thread have discussed very different approaches to their Disney trips. Some, like me, cram as much into their day as possible, while others go in the afternoon and do only a handful of attractions.

 

[G00fyDad]

No, it's just the opposite. People don't acknowledge or face that the model they hold dear FORCES everyone to stick to that model vs being one that is adaptive and serving multiple audiences.

When people resort to "It works for me, sucks for you" -- that's what it really means. They don't care the system is exclusionary because they get what they want.

Like the people that say "I never wait more than 25mins"... do they really think that happens for EVERYONE? They happily ignore that an average means there are people above, and below the average. But as long as they are on the lean side... they don't care how bad it can be on the other side.

It literally is people not caring about the bigger picture as long as their own itches are scratched.

I never wait more than 30 minutes for a ride. No. I don't think that happens for everyone. You may be misunderstanding my comment when I say that. It does not mean that I get to the parks and the lines are automatically under 30 minutes. It means that even though there are a number of rides that have 45+ waits that I am not getting in those lines. I can get to the parks at open, rides several headliners, eat lunch when the crowds build and use my three FP+ selections after lunch and then walk around riding things at my leisure after that. It does not mean that all rides have magically become 30 minutes or less when I am in the parks. It means I am not getting into the lines that are long and that is my choice. That touring plan works for me and my family but may not for others. And no, I don't care how bad it can be "on the other side" because that is not my family and I am not part of that group that chose to forego FP+ selections 60 days out, sleep in and get to the parks after the crowds have built up to 45 to 90 minute waits.

You're sort of right. I didn't care about other people's bigger picture because my itch was getting scratched. Right now I have an itch that needs scratching and Disney has yet to give me a back-scratcher. If they do then so be it. If not then I will modify our park touring plans to maximize our time and fun in the parks.

 

[Jrb1979]

Yes, we have APs, but we are not locals by any means. Hmm, waste money is certainly up to the individual. What is a waste to you, is not to others. Just like some are willing to fork over extra for the night time events, and others are not.

I get that and it doesn't bother me how people do the parks. It does make me happy they are going more away from the ultra planning that was once involved. I hope they continue down that road.

 

[flynnibus]

But multiple people in this very thread have discussed very different approaches to their Disney trips. Some, like me, cram as much into their day as possible, while others go in the afternoon and do only a handful of attractions.

What you are citing is how there are multiple audiences - not how individuals are accepting the negatives others have experienced.

 

[MrPromey]

Talk about a First World notion of misery! As much as I care about fairness in society, I have a hard time mapping such concerns onto WDW, just as I don't feel guilty for reserving the best seats in the cinema or that nice table over by the window at my favourite restaurant. We're talking about a theme park, for goodness' sake.

Wait - who said you should feel guilty about anything?

 

[G00fyDad]

I get that and it doesn't bother me how people do the parks. It does make me happy they are going more away from the ultra planning that was once involved. I hope they continue down that road.

It's cute that you think people are not having to plan everything out. Just because FP+ is not back in place it does not mean that people do not have to plan everything every day. Dining, parties, park selections, park hopping, small things like Oga's, Savi's, BBB, etc.

 

[LittleBuford]

What you are citing is how there are multiple audiences - not how individuals are accepting the negatives others have experienced.

You’ve lost me, but that’s OK.

 

[G00fyDad]

What you are citing is how there are multiple audiences - not how individuals are accepting the negatives others have experienced.

Why should I have to accept those other tourist's negatives? If I did that then my trip would be negative and we'd have a bad time. Modify your approach to meet the current availability and you will be just fine. FP+ comes back, GREAT! If not then "oh well. Time to figure things out differently.".

 

[LittleBuford]

Wait - who said you should feel guilty about anything?

Then I’m not sure what your point was. I never denied that there are those for whom FP didn’t work; on the contrary, I’ve acknowledged it repeatedly.

 

[Jrb1979]

It's cute that you think people are not having to plan everything out. Just because FP+ is not back in place it does not mean that people do not have to plan everything every day. Dining, parties, park selections, park hopping, small things like Oga's, Savi's, BBB, etc.

I get for some there is planning involved. Outside of reservations which my local park does as well so it doesn't bother me, I don't book any of those things. My way of doing parks is I rope drop and am spontaneous on how my day goes. The last time I went to MK I rope dropped, picked my FP on the app throughout my day and did standby for those I couldn't get. I picked the shortest lines as my day went on. As far as dining goes, I take whatever is available that day. I eat off site for dinner.

To each their own but what I posted is how I wish Disney would be like going forward.

 

[G00fyDad]

I get for some there is planning involved. Outside of reservations which my local park does as well so it doesn't bother me, I don't book any of those things. My way of doing parks is I rope drop and am spontaneous on how my day goes. The last time I went to MK I rope dropped, picked my FP on the app throughout my day and did standby for those I couldn't get. I picked the shortest lines as my day went on. As far as dining goes, I take whatever is available that day. I eat off site for dinner.

To each their own but what I posted is how I wish Disney would be like going forward.

Your touring plan is exactly the way I used to do it way back in the day. Disney has slowly but surely made it very hard work to go to the parks and be spontaneous and impulsive. Did I prefer it that way? Absolutely, but it just doesn't work that way for most people anymore. I know several people that refused to allow me to help them plan their first Disney trip (trips in 2016, 2017, and 2019) and came back ticked off and refusing to go back. They couldn't get into the restaurants they wanted as a walk-in and the rides were 60+ minutes by the time they got up, got dressed, ate lunch and got to the parks. (Duh!) They felt like they spent thousands of dollars to go to Disney and stand and eat fast food. I wish it would be less structured but it just doesn't work for us anymore.

 

[el_super]

This makes no sense. FP solved my long line waits every summer for the last decade.

There are still long lines and people complaining about lines. That's why it solved nothing. It defined a class of people who were given priority over others, to give the illusion of solving the problem, but has made more people miserable than it helped.

That's why it can't be continued and why it must be changed. It's great that your personal experience with Fastpass was positive, but if you look at the system as a whole, look at the long lines in the parks, how can you say that's working?

I know we won’t be the only ones feeling this way

How many of them would be willing to pay more to maintain that level of experience then? If the answer simply comes down to, we can't keep supporting these numbers using Fastpass so we need to reduce demand, how much is maintaining that worth for you?

It doesn't seem outrageous at all to expect people to pay more for increased access.

This whole thread is starting to feel like a coffeehouse in Vienna.

 

[Jrb1979]

Your touring plan is exactly the way I used to do it way back in the day. Disney has slowly but surely made it very hard work to go to the parks and be spontaneous and impulsive. Did I prefer it that way? Absolutely, but it just doesn't work that way for most people anymore. I know several people that refused to allow me to help them plan their first Disney trip (trips in 2016, 2017, and 2019) and came back ticked off and refusing to go back. They couldn't get into the restaurants they wanted as a walk-in and the rides were 60+ minutes by the time they got up, got dressed, ate lunch and got to the parks. (Duh!) They felt like they spent thousands of dollars to go to Disney and stand and eat fast food. I wish it would be less structured but it just doesn't work for us anymore.

Because it's so structured is why I don't go that often anymore and enjoy other parks better. I plan enough when I am at home, its the last thing I want to do on vacation. My vacations consists of booking my flight, hotel and car. The rest I figure out when I get there. It's why I visit the other Orlando parks over Disney right now. They fit my vacation style. All I have to do at those parks is show up.

 

[MrPromey]

Then I’m not sure what your point was. I never denied that there are those for whom FP didn’t work; on the contrary, I’ve acknowledged it repeatedly.

Sorry. I've tried repeatedly to explain my point. I don't have the energy to keep trying.

I'm willing to accept that might be a failure on my part to articulate my thoughts.

If you now understand that I was not trying to attack you personally, that's good enough for me to end this back-and-forth.

Flynnibus is feisty so he may have a few rounds left in him.

I think he is trying to make the same point I was.

For what it's worth, I don't think he's trying to "hate the playa", either.

 

[Waters Back Side]

The planning of your day made things less stressful and allowed for a more leisurely vacation WITH the 60 day booking window. I do not see how this is an arguement. It actually creates more spur of the moment decisions also. I could walk into the said park for the day, knowing I have dinner reservations at 7:30pm somewhere in the park or at a near by hotel. Then I'd have a total of 2 hours on the high end we know would be for rides specifically from the walk to the ride, the wait. The ride itself and exiting from the ride (and with FP it would be way less then 2 hours used). My family and I actually did not use FP like the common trend suggested. We never booked 3 rides in a row so that we can get more later. We would book them at 10 am, 1pm and 4pm. And all the time we saved on the ride waits along with the hours in between we would decide on a show, a meet and greet, grabbing a snack etc.

Its amazing how differently people do disney and there really is no wrong way if it suits you and your family.

But for someone to say get rid of the 60 day booking window and the planning aspect when it has ZERO affect on a non planner to keep it and a lot of affect on planners, makes no sense to me.

Pay vs free aspect aside, I really hope they at least make whatever system as flexible with the option of planning in advance or if not, allowing you to go on your chosen rides any time during the day.

 

[UNCgolf]

Talk about a First World notion of misery! As much as I care about fairness in society, I have a hard time mapping such concerns onto WDW, just as I don't feel guilty for reserving the best seats in the cinema or that nice table over by the window at my favourite restaurant. We're talking about a theme park, for goodness' sake.

That's not a one to one comparison, though. Everyone in the cinema is still seeing the movie and everyone at the restaurant is still able to order their meal. The experience might be slightly lessened, but everyone is still getting more or less the same thing. At WDW, some people aren't getting even remotely the same thing. They're unable to even get on some rides, or have to spend almost the entire day waiting in line for a small handful of rides.

Of course it's a first world problem. Any complaint about anything at WDW is a first world problem by default, but taking that position is essentially arguing there should be no discussion forum whatsoever.

It's not that eliminating FP+ is going to magically cure the aforementioned problems -- that's not really the point. The point is that people who have been able to take advantage of the FP+ system seem unwilling to accept the fact that it's impossible for the system to work that well for every guest. There have to be people with a horrible experience for other people to have the kind of experience you've had, because there's just not enough capacity for the attendance.

If someone only cares about their own experience, that's completely legitimate, but it's disingenuous to argue/imply that FP+ makes things better for everybody. It's logistically impossible for everyone to get every FP they want, and if everyone tried, it would quickly turn into a Rise BG situation where you would have to get incredibly lucky to be able to get more than 3 per day (or at least 3 that you actually wanted).