FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[Touchdown]

I live 50 min away from Cedar Point. The last time I went was ~10 years ago? I have been to WDW maybe 8 times in the past 5 years. One of the reasons that WDW appeals to me where Cedar Point doesn't (even though they have phenomenal coasters) is the ability to enjoy a park day however I want and with very little waits in line.

I waited no more then 45 min for a ride while I was there, without Fastlane, but with early entry. It’s not really that hard. Valraven, MF, TTD, Steel Vengence and Maverick are the only rides that consistently have 45+ min waits, all the others it’s about timing. Focus Early Entry/Rope Drop on those rides and your set.

 

[matt9112]

This isn't FP
You didn't pay for FP before anyways - so you can't claim you were already paying for it

Yes, they are removing stuff and still charging you for more. But that doesn't mean we make up our own facts and twists to justify the disfavor for what is happening.

Did anyone make the complaint that "they were already paying for extra hours" when Disney reduce them? Or did anyone claim "we already paid for that attraction to be open" when Disney changes their lineup. No.. it's a contrived complaint that makes bad associations to try to justify a pre-defined point. Having value reduced is not the same thing as being charged twice for something.

I think this system will be awful too - but that doesn't mean we make things up to make it sound worse.

I mean nights use to be a 5 dollar wristband.....we have fallen very far.

 

[matt9112]

Every time I read the word "free" on here, I want to gag.

People say it all the time, even when they are mad about changes "they now want to charge me for something that was once free!".

Nothing was ever free at Disney.

When they tack a fee on to something that was once inclusive, they are finding ways to charge you a second or (in some cases) third time for something you've already paid for, if you've ever been before.

If you've never been before, you can't fully comprehend the way they've been able to create leapfrogging price increases by using this tactic over and over now of breaking out these things once include while also continuing to raise the core price in the process.

If you've been before and haven't noticed this trick, or noticed and are totally cool with it, congratulations, you're their target audience. Physical park maps, if you want them, will now be $3, each.*



*to everyone ready to respond to this last thing, let me save you the time: "Good! I always use my phone, anyway!", "This is better for the environment because it forces people to not use maps.", "Old people that don't want to use smart phones are dumb and need to die so society can march forward!", etc, etc.. - trees, meet forest.

I think its more so the combination of orice increases across the board coupled with less offerings and additional upcharging. (Splitting the same product into multiple pieces) people get mad when you pay more for less.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I think its more so the combination of orice increases across the board coupled with less offerings and additional upcharging. (Splitting the same product into multiple pieces) people get mad when you pay more for less.

And this is why I think Disney may be in trouble in the future. Nothing travels faster than word of a bad experience.

 

[Jedijax719]

Thing is, if Fast Passes now come with a cost, people still have a choice as to whether they use them or not. But this time, if you do, you will pay more than you did before. Call it "inclusive", "free" or whatever, it is what it is. People will have to pay more for it than they did before.

The real kicker is that if you don't pay for it, you will STILL be paying a LOT more than you did before COVID because everything else has gone up a lot. If that doesn't hurt business, it will certainly hurt WOM. That eventually catches up.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Nobody can blame you for trying, MrPenguin

Nevermind him…black widow is out and he’s probably “charting”

You aren't reading. I said there isn't much overlap between DVC and LOCAL AP-holders. A "LOCAL" AP-holder is local to the parks and doesn't need to spend multiple tens of thousands of dollars on a timeshare because they already live there.

There are 3 types of APs by my count:

1. locals…the “pop ins”
2: DVC…the “demanders”
3: far away/out of state (group California Disney nuts here too)…make a trip out of it even if they don’t have too

I believe current management hates 2 outta the 3

I don’t think they will move to such an app based park experience in the near future because there are too many people who will not understand it. They can kiss goodbye to their foreign visitors and less tech savvy guests if they implement something this complicated. It will hurt the guest experience for literally everyone except the few who pay for the premium service. What they have now is perfect. I would prefer to pay more for admission and keep what is now in place than go to such a convoluted and stupid system. I understand Disney has to raise prices every year because costs go up. I’m fine with dinner parties and other upsells. It all helps offset their massive costs and means more rides. I’m even fine with paying a small to moderate increase every year in prices. I’m not okay with having a convoluted system shoved down my throat that will hurt my experience and increase the cost of my trip even more. There are so many other ways for these people to make money it is not even funny. For a company that loves to call themselves creative, they are just trying to apply AI technology to a theme park. The Aladdin service is what this is really all about. New flash: a theme park is an economy. Wait times are prices. Everyone has different preferences and tolerances. No system disney can possibly implement will ever maximize the guest experience as efficiently as wait times and standby queues. Disney is going to kill their theme parks business if they do this. They will still have all the same rides. The same capacity. But, everyone will have a worse experience because they don’t understand that people can’t be managed.

Do they care/want people in the park that aren’t app/micro transactions savvy?

that’s almost rhetorical.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think its more so the combination of orice increases across the board coupled with less offerings and additional upcharging. (Splitting the same product into multiple pieces) people get mad when you pay more for less.

No company gets around that more than Disney. Name one other?

And this is why I think Disney may be in trouble in the future. Nothing travels faster than word of a bad experience.

I wouldn’t bet that. And I’ve been known to be “hard” on them.

 

[RobbinsDad]

And this is why I think Disney may be in trouble in the future. Nothing travels faster than word of a bad experience.

People have been having bad experiences at WDW and spreading the word since the turn of the century. I don't think many leave Disney World thinking, "Wow, that without a doubt the most worthwhile use of my money ever!" The Disney machine drives demand for the Disney parks, simple as that. As long as Disney entertainment remains the king of the hill, demand to experience the magic will outpace what any bad word of mouth could stifle.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

No company gets around that more than Disney. Name one other?

I wouldn’t bet that. And I’ve been known to be “hard” on them.

They've had lulls in attendance before where they weren't as popular as they were prior. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they experience that again as more and more people get sick of being raked over the coals and getting way less than they used to in return.

 

[MJM]

Who go EVERY year? Yes, it’s a small percentage. Heck, 20% are international— they aren’t coming every single year.

We do.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They've had lulls in attendance before where they weren't as popular as they were prior. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they experience that again as more and more people get sick of being raked over the coals and getting way less than they used to in return.

They had a drop/reaction in attendance just a few years back…I think it was like 16-17???

things went down in a “boom economy”…unprecedented…a “reset point” that is NEEDED for value.

but it didn’t hold…no change of course…more cost cutting, really obvious upsells driven by crowding that is “tolerated”

and here we is

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We do.

Tons of people do…the entire eastern seaboard, Ontario, the UK, the Deep South the upper Midwest.

quite a silly question/claim

 

[ImperfectPixie]

They had a drop/reaction in attendance just a few years back…I think it was like 16-17???

things went down in a “boom economy”…unprecedented…a “reset point” that is NEEDED for value.

but it didn’t hold…no change of course…more cost cutting, really obvious upsells driven by crowding that is “tolerated”

and here we is

Yup. I don't think it will happen immediately, but given some time, I think people are going to be coming home from trips feeling very used and abused.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

You’re right…nobody goes EVERY year.

no AP holders…no florida residents…the pools of about 500,000 DVC contracts…nobody at run Disney events…holiday travelers…spring breakers…Halloween nuts…food and wine diehards.

nope…no one.

where do you live? Maybe we’re on two different geographic wavelengths

Haha seriously. I have a dozen people in my family across multiple states that go more than once per year. Some with DVC, some without. Annual, repeat visitors are a huge stable chunk of their revenue. Which is why these changes are so perplexing because it jeopardizes that (potentially).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yup. I don't think it will happen immediately, but given some time, I think people are going to be coming home from trips feeling very used and abused.

Economic masochism…

“yes, mistress Minnie”

…what?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

People have been having bad experiences at WDW and spreading the word since the turn of the century. I don't think many leave Disney World thinking, "Wow, that without a doubt the most worthwhile use of my money ever!" The Disney machine drives demand for the Disney parks, simple as that. As long as Disney entertainment remains the king of the hill, demand to experience the magic will outpace what any bad word of mouth could stifle.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sirwalter is DVC so....

..:that’s a viscous rumor

 

[MrPromey]

They had a drop/reaction in attendance just a few years back…I think it was like 16-17???

things went down in a “boom economy”…unprecedented…a “reset point” that is NEEDED for value.

but it didn’t hold…no change of course…more cost cutting, really obvious upsells driven by crowding that is “tolerated”

and here we is

In fact, at the time, people on these very boards defended those cutbacks as some sort of needed belt-tightening as they coped with the loss in revenue.

So what’s the pattern? In times of less, Disney cuts back and charges more. In times of prosper, Disney….

I mean, to be fair, they have been building (at a glacial pace) in recent years but I’d be willing to bet a lot of that comes from perceived competition, alone, which is why they are pulling as much media attention in as they possibly can for nearly half a decade before some of these things open rather than waiting until they are near opening to promote them.

Their concern is more with the perception of having great new stuff to do for people booking than it is to actually having it once people are in the gates.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

*Onelove8187.............

What he means are, there are 2 VERY adamant sides of FP+

1) First side (his and almost all others here in this forum, mostly local AP holders) have read studies that FP+ causes too much back up in the Stand by lines to negate the positive effect of skipping the lines for rides

2) Other side (Mine and by the sounds of it likely yours) know that if you can get the top, longest wait rides at the 60 day window and skip these really long lines, there's no way in cold fusion that the longer time we have to wait in the other rides in stand by takes up the amount of time you saved on the really long lines


The problem lies in the fact that most people who support his theory are local AP holders who cannot get FOP, SDD, ToT, RNR, TT, Soarin, etc. at the 30 day mark since all those are taken up by resort guests at the 60 day mark and they have to wait a VERY long time while the resort guests dont......


**EDIT**

There was a hack that local AP holders would use........They would book a Disney hotel outside of the 60 day window, book their 3 FP's, then once it got to the 30 day window, cancel the hotel and keep the FP's........Unfortunately for them, Disney caught onto this and when you cancelled your hotel, all FP bookings cancelled with it..............I'm willing to bet a dole whip Flynnibus and Sirwalter did that more than once!

You silly, desperate little boy…

i live in New Jersey…and my young teens have spent several months (bout 6) of their lives in Disney hotels and using fastpass at our leisure…

and yet…it was still over all less effective as a Prebook as it was day of…

…and it exposed their lack of capacity for their crowd loads quite publicly with those 60/30 rules….but also the tiering. Dead giveaway from dia uno…

but that was an amusing stab at it…even if it’s coming from a somewhat sad level of desperation for a system that appears to be over

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In fact, at the time, people on these very boards defended those cutbacks as some sort of needed belt-tightening as they coped with the loss in revenue.

So what’s the pattern? In times of less, Disney cuts back and charges more. In times of prosper, Disney….

I mean, to be fair, they have been building (at a glacial pace) in recent years but I’d be willing to bet a lot of that comes from perceived competition, alone, which is why they are pulling as much media attention in as they possibly can for nearly half a decade before some of these things open rather than waiting until they are near opening to bring attention to them.

…same as other boards.

we weren’t “doing our part”…which was swallowing 10-15% year over year hotel and dining cost increases and 20% AP bumps while tolerating more crowding…

how dare we not donate to the charity?

…Praetorians die with their boots on.

And excellent “glacial pace”
Reference…people ignore this way too much. Such a bait and switch.

ill remind: they have a completed attraction sitting for at least 6 months that they won’t open. The people attending now? Aren’t good enough.

that is indefensible.