FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

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dovetail65

Well-Known Member
I disagree with this premise. I would anticipate DHS becoming the #2 park in Orlando attendance wise.
Maybe, It's in 4th right now, not to far from catching EPCOT or AK
 

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UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
There are lots of factors that went into achieving the Federation's economy in Star Trek. And no doubt, what you say about a shift in attitudes was an important part of that. But I don't think it's possible to underestimate the role that replicator technology played in making all that possible. Replicators literally created a post-scarcity environment where there is no competition for resources. That is the deus ex machina that made all of the other wonderful sounding stuff about the evolution of humanity possible. Without it, the economy Trek depicts doesn't work.

I think it's worth pointing out that in the original Star Trek, when there were no replicators, there was plenty of talk about money. Kirk talks about how much money Starfleet has invested in Spock. There is reference to earning one's pay for the week. Heck, we even see people buying stuff. Only when you get to TNG and the replicator society is money truly gone from the picture.

The Star Trek post scarcity economy still doesn't really make sense because of land/real estate. That will always be a limited resource -- beyond just living on a holodeck, I suppose -- because there will always be more desirable and less desirable areas. I don't think any of the Star Trek shows/movies ever really needed to deal with that, though, since they're almost entirely focused around life on a spaceship.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I disagree with this premise. I would anticipate DHS becoming the #2 park in Orlando attendance wise.
Maybe…but not because the redesign did such a “great” job.

they landlocked it - more or less - again and what does a day look like now that’s leaps and bounds ahead of what it’s always been at the “little brother” park?
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Supposedly, Guest surveys all report the same thing. WDW is too expensive. WDW is too crowded. So yes, both can be true.


Yes, there is such a thing as overcrowding. Perhaps more than anything, overcrowding and price are what hurts Guest satisfaction the most. Overcrowding and price probably are the two leading factors that cause Guests to return less often.


Except "let the market figure it out" is not what Disney sells. Disney sells magic. Disney sells dreams.

Disney has to be careful - their financial success revolves around their image.

From a marketing & sales perspective, perhaps the most important aspect of Premier Access is that it's an impulse buy. It's not something you purchase ahead of time. You don’t factor in its cost when deciding where to vacation.

This is central to its success. Premier Access costs nothing before you arrive. You make your decision literally in the heat of the moment. You're hot. You're sweaty. You're tired. The thought of waiting in line for an hour makes you miserable. For only $10 (or $20) per person, Disney can send a little magic your way. You just spent $5000. What's another $40 (or $80) more?

What Disney cannot do is let Guests feel as if "the market is figuring it out." That's not magical. Getting to the front of the line - that's magical.
I missed this yesterday…but it’s fantastic 👏

And lays out one of my biggest pet peeves about fans defending Disney…

they want to defend the Bob’s semi-ridiculous price increases as “worth it because you can’t put a price on magic”…while at the same time saying it’s all “supply and demand…blame the market” when they have bad PR/backlash…

sometimes in the very same sentence. Can’t be both ways - In truth.
 

RobbinsDad

Well-Known Member
Supposedly, Guest surveys all report the same thing. WDW is too expensive. WDW is too crowded. So yes, both can be true.


Yes, there is such a thing as overcrowding. Perhaps more than anything, overcrowding and price are what hurts Guest satisfaction the most. Overcrowding and price probably are the two leading factors that cause Guests to return less often.


Except "let the market figure it out" is not what Disney sells. Disney sells magic. Disney sells dreams.

Disney has to be careful - their financial success revolves around their image.

From a marketing & sales perspective, perhaps the most important aspect of Premier Access is that it's an impulse buy. It's not something you purchase ahead of time. You don’t factor in its cost when deciding where to vacation.

This is central to its success. Premier Access costs nothing before you arrive. You make your decision literally in the heat of the moment. You're hot. You're sweaty. You're tired. The thought of waiting in line for an hour makes you miserable. For only $10 (or $20) per person, Disney can send a little magic your way. You just spent $5000. What's another $40 (or $80) more?

What Disney cannot do is let Guests feel as if "the market is figuring it out." That's not magical. Getting to the front of the line - that's magical.
Great points. Rational consumer behavior doesn’t exist for many at WDW. Even I have fallen prey to the magic at times. It’s not like I wear Disney shirts everyday outside the parks but by golly I’ll still spend 40 bucks for one at the Emporium.
 

Jeff4272

Well-Known Member
I think WDW will have a problem with occupancy after the 50th and COVID recovery is over if they do not reinstate perks for their hotels. I know its been awhile because we have been in a 10 year economic boom but WDW has had to incentivize resort sales many times in the past.........these changes dont happen over night but they will happen.........When you think of it, if WDW gets rid of free FP, then the combination of FP, parking, magic bands, ME, etc, these additional costs will all add up and people will either not be able to afford it or will find value elsewhere (either offsite or another location altogether like Atlantis)
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
You started by trying to compare them....

Also, didn't AK have more rides/shows running in July 2019 than they do today?

We could go on for days about the differences between the two dates.

Fact is, lines are in fact shorter at FOP and Navi without FP today compared with FP in 2019, despite what you posted.

Boom.
Well, again, not really. I didn't compare this date to the last. I noted that FoP had a very long wait yesterday, almost 2 hours (actually the average wait time for the day ended up being 125 minutes, over 2 hours). It was you who decided to compare date-to-date, which is completely meaningless because there are so many variables.

Regarding rides/shows, there was one more ride/show in 2019 (Nemo) than there is today. That'll have a small impact but not really.

Again, the crowd at AK yesterday was only a level 5, and only the second level 5 since the parks reopened in July of last year. So it's really one data point and we'll need more data before we can form a trend. But it falls in the range of historical CL 5 days, albeit on the lower end of that range. Because trends are far more important than single day comparisons, I decided to look at other CL5 days that TouringPlans had cataloged.

From Jan 1, 2019 through March of 2020 when COVID closed the parks, there were 50 days with a CL5. The average wait time for FoP for those days was 139.88 minutes, a full 18 minutes higher than yesterday's average. That does seem like a lot, but one must dig into the data more to understand it in context.

For one, yesterday's date does not fall outside the range of daily wait times from 2019/early 2020. On CL5 days, the wait times ranged from 117 minutes to 168 minutes. Of the 50 CL5 days, there were 7 other days that had lower wait times for FoP than yesterday. So that shows that, while on the lower end, yesterday's number was not so low that it was appreciably less than what you would have seen before 2019. In fact, it was 13th percentile of the dataset.

The trouble is that this is one data point compared against a sizeable dataset. To make a real comparison, we will have to wait for more CL5 days and do a proper comparison. Given that Disney is now expanding capacity, I hope to do that soon. I suspect the average post-Covid will fall in the low 130s, but we'll see.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Maybe…but not because the redesign did such a “great” job.

they landlocked it - more or less - again and what does a day look like now that’s leaps and bounds ahead of what it’s always been at the “little brother” park?
The park was already land locked. You can certainly argue that another attraction in Toy Story Land and/or Star Wars land would have helped. You can also definitely argue that Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway should have been built as an addition as opposed to as a replacement. With all that said, I think it is positioned well for future growth in the Animation Courtyard area. Similarly, I think Animal Kingdom is positioned well for future growth in the Dinorama area and I'd argue that Animal Kingdom needs it more right now.

As for it being land locked, expanding into the parking lot is still very much an option. There were plans for a parking structure and that would expand the footprint of the park should it need it. Galaxy's Edge and Toy Story wiped a lot of the slate clean as well as setup that park for future expansion when the time comes.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
The park was already land locked. You can certainly argue that another attraction in Toy Story Land and/or Star Wars land would have helped. You can also definitely argue that Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway should have been built as an addition as opposed to as a replacement. With all that said, I think it is positioned well for future growth in the Animation Courtyard area. Similarly, I think Animal Kingdom is positioned well for future growth in the Dinorama area and I'd argue that Animal Kingdom needs it more right now.

As for it being land locked, expanding into the parking lot is still very much an option. There were plans for a parking structure and that would expand the footprint of the park should it need it. Galaxy's Edge and Toy Story wiped a lot of the slate clean as well as setup that park for future expansion when the time comes.
Yeah…you had me until here.

so it took them 30 years of piecemeal, teeth pulling crawl for minor additions/renovations…and now they are eager to expand after maybe a $1.5 bil reworking of the place to get to the black Diamond courses and sell movies (4) that collapsed before the “crown jewel” even Opened??

call me a skeptic that ever happens.
 
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