FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[flynnibus]

So much to unpack here.

You consider Disneyland Park miserably overcrowded?

You realize it comes in as #2 for annual attendance behind the MK but has way more attractions, right?

Because crowding isn't just a function of people vs attractions. Disneyland gets crowded with less crowds due to it's physical lack of space. Adventureland anyone? NOS water front?

You're so bent on this attraction capacity thing you are ignoring everything else.

Anyway, the opening of TRON is not going to suddenly make any of the mountains a walk-on. It'll barely move the needle.

It won't change the wait time for Peter Pan's flight.

If people got what they wanted, and had FP-like line bypasses no amount of new attractions will lower those waits because people will goto the attractions they want, if their wait tolerance is met.

MK has excess capacity that is under utilized... the problem is those attractions aren't that popular. And many replacements have proven equally mediocre.

Yes the park needs more - but this is not some unilateral solution. More attractions = more overhead.

 

[flynnibus]

Once the standby wait hits a targeted wait time they close the standby line and activate standby pass. Standby pass works like max pass at DLR giving you the option to reserve a return time which will be a window when you can return and ride the ride

No need to muddy this up with MaxPass references. MaxPass was nothing more than FP with app based access. It was bundled with Photopass to justify/mask the world of monetizing FP app access.

 

[Waters Back Side]

Another reason why it might be implemented differently here in terms of how much it will cost and who has to pay for it is that it would be unrealistic to think EVERY onsite guest has to pay for Premier Access to go to the front of a line considering there are 32 resort hotels in WDW compared to 8 in DLP. There are 4 parks and a lot more people. I can only afford a moderate resort at this time in my life and will continue to return to Disney annually IF I can continue to ride the rides i want without paying more. If that is no longer the case, I will not go or I'll stay at a non Disney hotel/off property and be forced into buying DPA. And I think a lot of people will have that attitude with no incentive to stay on property. They will not make as much from me as a guest as they would have if I stayed onsite.

 

[GoofGoof]

The standby line doesn't get closed with maxpass.

Right, that’s what I said would be unique to WDW, although technically used at Intl parks.

 

[GoofGoof]

No need to muddy this up with MaxPass references. MaxPass was nothing more than FP with app based access. It was bundled with Photopass to justify/mask the world of monetizing FP app access.

Standby pass that you can book online with app that gives you a return time is a lot like maxpass where you book a fast pass online with a set return time.

 

[GoofGoof]

So if you pay for a premier pass to the #1 attraction in the park and it goes down for the day then what? Are they going to replace all the dvc kiosks with guest relations?

Maybe they will just refund the money and/or offer it for a different day.

 

[flynnibus]

Standby pass that you can book online with app that gives you a return time is a lot like maxpass where you book a fast pass online with a set return time.

While they both use return times, Maxpass returned you to 'expedited' boarding, while standby pass is to just the standby line. Maxpass was 'allocate until all are distributed' while standby pass maybe more targeted to throttle itself and reopen itself. Standby pass is not advertised in anyway as a 'skip the line' or similar benefit... it's simply a 'wait elsewhere' tool. This is why any FP variation blurring is just making the confusion worse.

The real thing it shares with FP is the intent of deferring demand. How it allocates, how it will be positioned, what it offers, all differ widely.

 

[flynnibus]

So if you pay for a premier pass to the #1 attraction in the park and it goes down for the day then what? Are they going to replace all the dvc kiosks with guest relations?

Digital Economy - store credit or immediate refund. None of this requires human interaction. This is a stretch to make a big deal of.

Disney will probably force everyone to use the app. Thus they have profiles and means to offer continuity.

 

[IanDLBZF]

Interesting read from Joshua Harris, who was a Designer for Disney:

 

[Po'Rich]

I’m not sure this is something even blue cards would welcome.

Remember a lot of DVC members rent out points from time to time.

If discounted fast passes are only available to blue cards it diminishes the rental market effecting all DVC members.

Right now, there are a number of perks that are only available to blue cards, and Disney keeps raising the number of points necessary to get a blue card. Adding in discounted FP as a blue card perk would provide one more reason for people to buy direct. Disney has already shown that they aren't concerned about current DVC members renting out or selling points (or about DVC members who don't buy direct). Disney seems most interested in getting people to buy direct and discounted FP would provide a great incentive while also encourage more $ spent in the park without incurring any additional expense.

 

[el_super]

You consider Disneyland Park miserably overcrowded?

Oh you've never been?

Yes, or to be more precise, precovid Disneyland was overcrowded.

You realize it comes in as #2 for annual attendance behind the MK but has way more attractions, right?

Yeah, and it's also what... 70 to 80% of the size? Maybe less. The big attractions are all still 60+ minute waits and the smaller ones soak up almost no people (like Lincoln). Rise of the Resistance still has to deal with Boarding Groups and virtual queues despite all DL having more attractions, no advanced Fastpass bookings and a paid option for Fastpass.

So what's your point?

That adding new attractions does nothing to solve for overcrowding. You add new attractions to increase crowds. That's like Theme Park 101.

My point with bringing DL up is that people talk about the MK being overbuilt compared to the other three and it's not overbuilt at all - it's under-built for the crowds they push in and the other three are WAY under-built.

I don't disagree really that they need to add new stuff. I just disagree that it would have a negative effect on overcrowding.

Anyway, the opening of TRON is not going to suddenly make any of the mountains a walk-on. It'll barely move the needle.

That wasn't the idea. The idea is that opening new attractions will put more pressure on Disney to close underperforming attractions like COP and eventually the park capacity would even out.

 

[flynnibus]

Interesting read from Joshua Harris, who was a Designer for Disney:

Spoken like a true business line manager who got punished for not generating enough revenue to support his initiatives.

I don't see how you convert his comments into anything more than 'more revenue = more potential to do things' and not be about guest experience first BECAUSE it's paid.

ETA: I don't even give him that much credit.. the guy gets his first job at Disney and claims that role as 20+ years relevant experience. Lol... fluffer activated!

 

[GoofGoof]

While they both use return times, Maxpass returned you to 'expedited' boarding, while standby pass is to just the standby line. Maxpass was 'allocate until all are distributed' while standby pass maybe more targeted to throttle itself and reopen itself. Standby pass is not advertised in anyway as a 'skip the line' or similar benefit... it's simply a 'wait elsewhere' tool. This is why any FP variation blurring is just making the confusion worse.

The real thing it shares with FP is the intent of deferring demand. How it allocates, how it will be positioned, what it offers, all differ widely.

But by default if standby pass doesn’t kick in until the standby wait is a certain length then they are going to cap the time at that length. In other word the standby line you come back to isn’t unlimited it’s capped so can’t be 2hrs unless they decide to do it that way but then what’s the point. I don’t know if the wait will be 20 min or 30 min or more. Yes, FP or maxpass wait is supposed to be shorter but can still sometimes 10+ mins depending on the day.

 

[LittleBuford]

Interesting read from Joshua Harris, who was a Designer for Disney:

Does he actually explain the reasoning behind these pronouncements?

 

[flynnibus]

But by default if standby pass doesn’t kick in until the standby wait is a certain length then they are going to cap the time at that length. In other word the standby line you come back to isn’t unlimited it’s capped so can’t be 2hrs unless they decide to do it that way but then what’s the point. I don’t know if the wait will be 20 min or 30 min or more. Yes, FP or maxpass wait is supposed to be shorter but can still sometimes 10+ mins depending on the day.

Think about it... Standby pass is never going to get you to a short 20min wait. Why? Because if it did, it would severely undercut the value of the paid line-skip.

Standby pass is not a 'line shorter' nor will it be pitched as such. It will be like the virtual queue/boarding groups... a tool to 'free you to enjoy other things' without being trapped in even greater lines. It's a tool that basically can replace the Boarding Group tool today AND be scaled down to deal with lower demand attractions AND give Disney the power to push demand around as desired.

 

[havoc315]

welcome to the class system.

IF youre rich, you can do whatever you want.

If you arent you will not be able to ride certain rides.

I think next years trip might be my last... and im stunned writing that.

So… Disney should give away tickets, meals and resorts for free?
It already was a class system. There already were people who couldn’t afford it. Or can’t afford to stay on-site. Or can’t afford park hoppers. Or who can’t afford it at all.

People who pay more can get more — that’s not new to Disney World, or anyplace else in a free country.

 

[havoc315]

So if you pay for a premier pass to the #1 attraction in the park and it goes down for the day then what? Are they going to replace all the dvc kiosks with guest relations?

Not very hard to automatically process a refund.

 

[GoofGoof]

Think about it... Standby pass is never going to get you to a short 20min wait. Why? Because if it did, it would severely undercut the value of the paid line-skip.

Standby pass is not a 'line shorter' nor will it be pitched as such. It will be like the virtual queue/boarding groups... a tool to 'free you to enjoy other things' without being trapped in even greater lines. It's a tool that basically can replace the Boarding Group tool today AND be scaled down to deal with lower demand attractions AND give Disney the power to push demand around as desired.

Standby pass as it exists today is a line shortener to make the physical lines shorter due to distancing for Covid. I don’t know how they plan to use it, but it is being pitched as once the line gets too long it‘s activated so guests have more time to spend in shops and less time in lines. If they took a 60+ minute standby wait and told you to come back in 2 hours only to still wait 60+ minutes what would the point be? I don’t think 20 mins is likely but 30 to 40 probably makes sense.

The line skip option if it stays fully per ride will only be profitable for a handful of rides in each park at best. Nobody is paying $40 for a family of 4 to ride Pooh or Peter Pan with no wait.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

Does he actually explain the reasoning behind these pronouncements?

In theory it would make Fastpass more efficient/exclusive and allow the park better control of standby wait times across the park. Let’s say you have 30k people in the park and they each get 3 FP, that’s 90k total. Under a paid system with dynamic pricing, you almost certainly will sell less than that, in fact, ideally, you should be able to use dynamic pricing to hit right around the number of FP you want to be sold per attraction. Let’s say itends up being about half, so 45k. That drives more people into standby and makes the standby line move quicker through the queue, though not necessarily reduce wait times as more people would line up in standby. Overall it should flatten real world wait times across the board though not necessarily reduce or lengthen them overall.

 

[Trauma]

I’m just wondering what the last major initiative that Disney launched that increased guest satisfaction?

What are we pointing to here thats gives us any hope that this will be a net positive?

I am fortunate to be able to afford paying for as many fast passes as I have to but other members of my travel parties don’t have the same financial situation.

This will make travel awkward for people who travel with friends or extended family who may have a lower income.

Do you pay for everyone or wait in standby lines all day?