FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[drizgirl]

They've been pretty transparent that the Park Pass system is staying and a key reason for that is to manage crowds. If you let all the day guests in you want but put a tight cap on APs that is a pretty compelling way to limit attendance for them.

Not necessarily. The park pass system is here to stay. That’s to help them staff properly for the expected crowd level. That doesn’t mean they are limiting attendance.

 

[DisneyCane]

They've been pretty transparent that the Park Pass system is staying and a key reason for that is to manage crowds. If you let all the day guests in you want but put a tight cap on APs that is a pretty compelling way to limit attendance for them.

Most of the APs are blocked out for the absolute busiest days. I'd be curious to know what percentage of people in a park on an average (pre-COVID) day were passholders.

Certainly the least profitable guest is a passholder who lives within 30 minutes of WDW and pops in for a few hours frequently to ride the major attractions and doesn't purchase food or merchandise. I just don't know how many of those there are.

I live over 3 hours away and use my pass 9-12 days a year. Partially due to the free parking, it comes out cheaper than the equivalent in day passes, especially with park hopping. On the days that I visit, I almost always make some kind of in park purchase of food or merchandise or both. I'd be perfectly fine if, for the same cost, there was a maximum number of days I could go as long as the maximum is reasonable like 20 or so.

I'd personally prefer a limit to the park pass system so that I can be more spontaneous and decide that I want to take a trip two days from now but park pass isn't a deal breaker.

What will be a deal breaker is if they create a paid FP system which bogs down the standby lines to the point that if I don't pay what is essentially an admission surcharge I have to wait in barely moving, 1-3 hour lines for every major attraction.

If they limit the new FP to 20% or less of the attraction capacity (and charge a lot for it) so that the standby lines move continuously, then I'll be somewhat OK with it.

 

[dovetail65]

Not necessarily. The park pass system is here to stay. That’s to help them staff properly for the expected crowd level. That doesn’t mean they are limiting attendance.

I think he meant the pass reservation system is here to stay and that is what Chapek said. Truly that's not a big deal most people know which park they are going to anyhow.

I believe when AP comes back it will be closer to what it was for WDW, possibly even be exactly the same as it was before Covid for WDW. I also think FP will be closer to what it was as well, possibly be the same for the first year or two. Disney has never said FP is 100% gone and going to be paid, only we have, AND that started in 2006 and rumored since.

They need get back to 100% capacity, many of the comments I read dont even apply when they are at 100% capacity. Disney should share their plan, this keeping quiet about when full capacity is going to happen just has to be costing them money. I won't go back, the lines are worse than first week of Aug and with no FP. The trip in 2021 was the worst Disney trip we ever had regarding line wait I can remember and that's going back to 72.




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[dovetail65]

Most of the APs are blocked out for the absolute busiest days. I'd be curious to know what percentage of people in a park on an average (pre-COVID) day were passholders.

Certainly the least profitable guest is a passholder who lives within 30 minutes of WDW and pops in for a few hours frequently to ride the major attractions and doesn't purchase food or merchandise. I just don't know how many of those there are.

I live over 3 hours away and use my pass 9-12 days a year. Partially due to the free parking, it comes out cheaper than the equivalent in day passes, especially with park hopping. On the days that I visit, I almost always make some kind of in park purchase of food or merchandise or both. I'd be perfectly fine if, for the same cost, there was a maximum number of days I could go as long as the maximum is reasonable like 20 or so.

I'd personally prefer a limit to the park pass system so that I can be more spontaneous and decide that I want to take a trip two days from now but park pass isn't a deal breaker.

What will be a deal breaker is if they create a paid FP system which bogs down the standby lines to the point that if I don't pay what is essentially an admission surcharge I have to wait in barely moving, 1-3 hour lines for every major attraction.

If they limit the new FP to 20% or less of the attraction capacity (and charge a lot for it) so that the standby lines move continuously, then I'll be somewhat OK with

I have not been blocked out for my AP on any day. I tested Christmas last week an even first week of October for the 50th, I can get in. Give me a day ill try right now and see what day they block me from going.

Disney silently upped the capacity, I know they did because days I could not go a month ago I could now.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Not necessarily. The park pass system is here to stay. That’s to help them staff properly for the expected crowd level. That doesn’t mean they are limiting attendance.

That is part of it, but part of it is that they are absolutely using it to throttle attendance. They'd rather have a park slightly less crowded where guest satisfaction is higher and where they don't need as many CMs to manage insane crowds... so long as the guests filling that slightly less crowded park are the types of guests they want. They can trim the fat, both on cast and guest sides.

 

[DisneyCane]

I have not been blocked out for my AP on any day. I tested Christmas last week an even first week of October for the 50th, I can get in. Give me a day ill try right now and see what day they block me from going.

Disney silently upped the capacity, I know they did because days I could not go a month ago I could now.

I meant the AP tiers. Many have blackout dates. You can get reservations any day except 10/1 for the most part.

 

[drizgirl]

That is part of it, but part of it is that they are absolutely using it to throttle attendance. They'd rather have a park slightly less crowded where guest satisfaction is higher and where they don't need as many CMs to manage insane crowds... so long as the guests filling that slightly less crowded park are the types of guests they want. They can trim the fat, both on cast and guest sides.

People are dying to believe that. I don’t. They absolutely want to sell all those spots. Just at full price instead of discounted AP rates.

 

[dovetail65]

That is part of it, but part of it is that they are absolutely using it to throttle attendance. They'd rather have a park slightly less crowded where guest satisfaction is higher and where they don't need as many CMs to manage insane crowds... so long as the guests filling that slightly less crowded park are the types of guests they want. They can trim

Client satisfaction only matters if it reduces profit. My opinion is that they will not throttle attendance, ever that seems strange to me as a businessman. They will fill the park to 100% capacity when they can and they have done. 100% is so rare it's just not a huge issue.

I have been to Disney so many times over so many years and crowds just doesn't seem like their worst problem to me

People are dying to believe that. I don’t. They absolutely want to sell all those spots. Just at full price instead of discounted AP rates.

You are so right, throttling attendance makes no sense and they don't have to.

Now in CA where 50% of tickets were AP they ended the old system, they had to, but they didn't throttle anything. They will still pack the parks. In WDW AP's are fractional in comparison and WDW needs AP for the off season, Disneyland doesn't.

 

[StaceyH_SD]

I don’t know what the other park capacity is but I have heard that max capacity for WDW MK is 100,000. Normal attendance on any given day is 40-50k. On super busy days it’s around 75k.

 

[Goofyernmost]

One other thing I noticed without FP in operation. Having people in queues all the time seemed to make the walkways less crowded.

Something that was surprising was how much linear queue space (with no social distancing) a short wait requires. For EE, a 20 minute wait filled the entire former standby queue, part of the former FP queue plus a supplemental switchback in front to the old FP distribution area with the line starting past the first set of steps down towards the exit.

If the wait was 40 minutes (which is still a very reasonable wait for an E ticket), the line would have extended to Dinorama.

For some attractions, some kind of virtual queue will be needed. Not to skip the line but to get into the line just to keep all the walkways from being turned into queues.

I was very struck by this also. We kept trying to figure out if it was because the fp lines are empty, there is nothing else to do but rides so more people are in lines, or what. The physical lines are way outside of many show buildings and clogging walkways but the wait times are reasonable. Can anyone explain this?

This would probably be known as conflicting observations within two or three posts of each other. What is one to believe.

 

[DisneyCane]

This would probably be known as conflicting observations within two or three posts of each other. What is one to believe.

Nothing conflicting. I meant the walkways in areas that aren't turned into queues are not crowded. The entrance to Pandora was pretty sparse but the path towards Africa was filled with people on line for FoP.

 

[Chomama]

Nothing conflicting. I meant the walkways in areas that aren't turned into queues are not crowded. The entrance to Pandora was pretty sparse but the path towards Africa was filled with people on line for FoP.

Yeah. I think we experienced the same thing!

 

[Goofyernmost]

Nothing conflicting. I meant the walkways in areas that aren't turned into queues are not crowded. The entrance to Pandora was pretty sparse but the path towards Africa was filled with people on line for FoP.

Yeah. I think we experienced the same thing!

Pretty much what everyone has experienced since WDW opened originally. Some attractions are more popular then others and since things to do in DAK are limited, it isn't surprising that a longer line will form at one over another. With social distancing still a reality it looks worse than it really is.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Client satisfaction only matters if it reduces profit. My opinion is that they will not throttle attendance, ever that seems strange to me as a businessman. They will fill the park to 100% capacity when they can and they have done. 100% is so rare it's just not a huge issue.

I have been to Disney so many times over so many years and crowds just doesn't seem like their worst problem to me

You are so right, throttling attendance makes no sense and they don't have to.

Now in CA where 50% of tickets were AP they ended the old system, they had to, but they didn't throttle anything. They will still pack the parks. In WDW AP's are fractional in comparison and WDW needs AP for the off season, Disneyland doesn't.

There's a certain number of guests that each park can accommodate where the revenue starts being dwarfed by the labor needed to manage the crowds. Restaurants, shops and attractions can only feed so many people per hour over the course of the day. They want to hit that number without exceeding it.

 

[larryz]

They've been pretty transparent that the Park Pass system is staying and a key reason for that is to manage crowds. If you let all the day guests in you want but put a tight cap on APs that is a pretty compelling way to limit attendance for them.

So what they have is a version of DVC for the Parks... you have to buy in up front (get your ticket) before you can rent a room (schedule a park day).

It's only a matter of time before they start offering "Disney Park Memberships."

 

[GhostHost1000]

crowds don’t seem as bad when there are more people eater attractions, shows, and expansion areas for everyone to spread out. Then guests are more happy and spending more time in the parks spending additional money rather than standing in line not buying anything

*cough cough Disney management*

 

[matt9112]

^^THIS

Employers are having a hard time hiring. Regions pays starting tellers around $17 an hour, with benefits. That's $35K. And no degree required.

When you're having problems HIRING because you're not getting applications, that's a shortage of labor. Daughter's branch in Florida is down 4 positions.

If a financial institution willing to pay a starting employee $35K can't get applicants, what makes you think Disney can?

35k to deal with some of the upset people im sure walk through? No thanks. Besides being a good employee and having good character traits as well as work ethic has nothing to do with a piece of paper. I have seen people graduate from florida state that still have a head full of air. Wage stagnation compared to inflation had been a thing for decades.

 

[matt9112]

People should use their time wisely then. Get to the parks at open, ride a bunch of stuff with little to no wait (5-10 min), then use your FP's after lunch. I have been to WDW many times and I have never waited in a line for more than 30 minutes. We usually go in October so that is another part of using your time wisely. Don't go in the summer or during Christmas.

But why....why should you have to execute a military manuver to go to a theme park thats the fundamental problem! Your okay with it! You think it is totally okay to HAVE to do it that way or have a sub par experience.

Hey i used to do it that way too could ride everything big in MK by 2. Than leave as the mob became unbearable. But that dosen't make if right it not only creates a duality of know enoughs and know nothings within the park guests but its simply rediculous. Than again men make appointments for there barbers now so its probably a society thing.

 

[Jedijax719]

But why....why should you have to execute a military manuver to go to a theme park thats the fundamental problem! Your okay with it! You think it is totally okay to HAVE to do it that way or have a sub par experience.

Hey i used to do it that way too could ride everything big in MK by 2. Than leave as the mob became unbearable. But that dosen't make if right it not only creates a duality of know enoughs and know nothings within the park guests but its simply rediculous. Than again men make appointments for there barbers now so its probably a society thing.

Likewise, one could say they could use their time wisely to plan ahead of time. Do the 180 day dining reservations, the 60 day fast pass, etc. If people can/should rearrange their schedule to go in October, then people should also be able to go at peak times and plan. We went in March 2018 at the peak time and had no issues because we planned ahead of time. There shouldn't have to be one specific formula. Some can go in September and October but don't/can't plan ahead of time. Some can plan ahead of time but cannot go outside of peak times. If lines were 40 minutes or less on ALL rides, all the time, then people wouldn't have to worry about it. But that's not possible, with or without fast passes. So people have to make the best arrangements for them and their families if they feel the need to go. There should be several ways to do that, not just one.

Disney will most likely wait until the lines and crowds start getting ridiculous again before making an announcement. Simple supply and demand. Right now, there doesn't seem to be a full demand for any kind of fast pass. When things get desperate, they will announce their packages. If they announce it now when there isn't even full capacity, very few will buy them and there will be a lot of complaints. For all we know, they already have their plan in place but are waiting to release it.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Parks don't seem that crowded when they don't let everyone in.