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FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

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seascape

Well-Known Member
So many flaws in this, where to start though I guess we could start with the fact that many are unaware that middle class is roughly $40,000 - $120,000, with the median middle class income being around $65,000. Median national income is roughly $34,000. So yes, if you make 3x that, you're still middle class. And regardless of that, within the scale of middle class, an on-site Disney vacation is doable. Even yearly, if you're on the upper end of the scale.
At least you agree that those making more than 3 times the median income, 195,000 using your numbers are not middleclass. You have a very large range of middleclass 40k to 120k. I personally would put someone at 40k in the 4th quintile and not consider them middleclass. On the otherhand, my person view is any family that makes more than twice the median income is in the upper class. Yes, they are not in the middleclass, in fact according to the US Census Department the top 20% of US households make $131,350. How anyone can claims a family that makes more than 80% of all other families is middleclass is just wrong. In fact this is the breakdown of US income:

Annual household income in U.S. dollarsPercentage of U.S. householdsUnder 15,0009.1%15,000 to 24,9998%25,000 to 34,9998.3%35,000 to 49,99911.7%50,000 to 74,99916.5%75,000 to 99,99912.3%100,000 to 149,99915.5%150,000 to 199,9998.3%200,000 and over10.3%

Showing entries 1 to 9 (9 entries in total)

© Statista 2021
 
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larryz

My Last Trip was in 2018
Premium Member
Annual household income in U.S. dollars Percentage of U.S. households
Under 15,000.........................................................9.1%
15,000 to 24,999...................................................8%
25,000 to 34,999 .................................................8.3%
35,000 to 49,999 ................................................11.7%
50,000 to 74,999..................................................6.5%
75,000 to 99,999.................................................12.3%
100,000 to 149,999............................................15.5%
150,000 to 199,999 ...........................................8.3%
200,000 and over .............................................10.3%
 

disneyfreak0710

Active Member
At least you agree that those making more than 3 times the median income, 195,000 using your numbers are not middleclass. You have a very large range of middleclass 40k to 120k. I personally would put someone at 40k in the 4th quintile and not consider them middleclass. On the otherhand, my person view is any family that makes more than twice the median income is in the upper class. Yes, they are not in the middleclass, in fact according to the US Census Department the top 20% of US households make $131,350. How anyone can claims a family that makes more than 80% of all other families is middleclass is just wrong. In fact this is the breakdown of US income:

Annual household income in U.S. dollarsPercentage of U.S. householdsUnder 15,0009.1%15,000 to 24,9998%25,000 to 34,9998.3%35,000 to 49,99911.7%50,000 to 74,99916.5%75,000 to 99,99912.3%100,000 to 149,99915.5%150,000 to 199,9998.3%200,000 and over10.3%

Showing entries 1 to 9 (9 entries in total)

© Statista 2021
Yeah, 3 x$ 340000 (the median US income) = $102,000, so still in middle class. And I do not have a wide range, the US statistics/financial world does. That is what they have set as middle class. Whether you agree with it or not is moot. 🤷‍♀️ And at the end of the day, even if you want to go with lower numbers for middle class, say $50-60K, an onsite Disney vacation is still doable. In fact people do it all the time. Not everyone is staying at the Poly.
 

GaBoy

Well-Known Member
So about these fastpasses… 👀

(trying to reset the discussion)
Oh yeah fastpasses.... yep, we need some of those. But.... its gonna cost us.
Somebody is screaming, " I want my money back!"
267x367.jpeg
 

acup313

Active Member
I am starting to wonder why they haven't announced the new system yet. I would think as soon as possible they would want the money from it. With distancing removed they should be able to use all of the queues. Hopefully, staffing will be less of a problem with the CP starting back up. I guess the only thing slowing them down is that they want to make sure they have the system they want ready so they don't have to make a changes in a few months. Because if it is ready, I think the parks would be capable of handling them soon and there would definitely be people willing to pay for it.
 

PirateFrank

Well-Known Member
I nwver cease to be amazed at those families that make 3 times the median income and still claim to be middle class. The lack of knowledge of how the real middle class Americans live is shocking. Middleclass Americans have never been able to afford an onsite WDW vacation. Some did manage to visit if they stayed with relatives or stayed offsite and only visited once, but too many here claim WDW or DL used to be affordable for the middleclass to visit yearly. THAT IS PURE BS. Walt always charged prices that allowed his to live a rich lifestyle.

I really wish we'd all stop using these antiquated terms. For as long as most of us have lived, there has not been a simply-defined lower, middle or upper class in this country. There are several layers to these 'classes' that fluctuate heavily depending on what part of the country you're standing in and lumping them all together doesn't do anyone any favors.

Also - measuring someone's or a family's gross income to determine whether someone is "middle class" is bass ackwards. It's like trying to determine if you can get a helicopter off the ground before you put people in it while disregarding how fat everyone is. I'll avoid why people prefer to measure someone's ability to afford something based on their income - but it's an ignorant and myopically wrong way to approach this.

Let's take a family making $200k a year. In San Francisco or metro NY, that family is cutting coupons, driving used cars, living in a crappy rental with very little space and struggling to make ends meet. They don't have alot of net assets and they're probably far more in debt than they are willing to admit to anyone. If that family has college age children, they're going to have a very hard time paying for it because most financial aid offices across the country don't make the extreme COLA adjustment they need to for folks living in these parts of the country (which will result in more of that aforementioned debt). These people are considered "upper class" by the rest of the country because of the money they make with absolutely zero regard for how much they have to bleed out where they live. What you call upper class is *decidedly* middle class in NY or parts of Cali...

Contrast that with a $200k income in suburban/rural Iowa or Oklahoma. The cost of housing and local/state taxes are a fraction of what they are in SF or NY. A salary like that would allow for alot of disposable income. Income that can buy a house, a new car, go to WDW.

...and yes, before you say it, a great deal of this is choice. For the most part, people who live in NYC or San Francisco chose to live there (though they are seriously on the move right now - both Cali and NY are hemorrhaging residents for political and financial reasons). But we all can recognize that picking up and moving is difficult. It might be near impossible depending on your choice of career. But the fact of the matter is that we all want a live a certain way. To have a roof over our heads, put food on the table and see our kids turn into respectable adults. If we all agree that those three things are not 'choices' but basic goals for most Americans - the cost to do those basic things is WILDLY different throughout the country.
 

larryz

My Last Trip was in 2018
Premium Member
I really wish we'd all stop using these antiquated terms. For as long as most of us have lived, there has not been a simply-defined lower, middle or upper class in this country. There are several layers to these 'classes' that fluctuate heavily depending on what part of the country you're standing in and lumping them all together doesn't do anyone any favors.

Also - measuring someone's or a family's gross income to determine whether someone is "middle class" is bass ackwards. It's like trying to determine if you can get a helicopter off the ground before you put people in it while disregarding how fat everyone is. I'll avoid why people prefer to measure someone's ability to afford something based on their income - but it's an ignorant and myopically wrong way to approach this.

Let's take a family making $200k a year. In San Francisco or metro NY, that family is cutting coupons, driving used cars, living in a crappy rental with very little space and struggling to make ends meet. They don't have alot of net assets and they're probably far more in debt than they are willing to admit to anyone. If that family has college age children, they're going to have a very hard time paying for it because most financial aid offices across the country don't make the extreme COLA adjustment they need to for folks living in these parts of the country (which will result in more of that aforementioned debt). These people are considered "upper class" by the rest of the country because of the money they make with absolutely zero regard for how much they have to bleed out where they live. What you call upper class is *decidedly* middle class in NY or parts of Cali...

Contrast that with a $200k income in suburban/rural Iowa or Oklahoma. The cost of housing and local/state taxes are a fraction of what they are in SF or NY. A salary like that would allow for alot of disposable income. Income that can buy a house, a new car, go to WDW.

...and yes, before you say it, a great deal of this is choice. For the most part, people who live in NYC or San Francisco chose to live there (though they are seriously on the move right now - both Cali and NY are hemorrhaging residents for political and financial reasons). But we all can recognize that picking up and moving is difficult. It might be near impossible depending on your choice of career. But the fact of the matter is that we all want a live a certain way. To have a roof over our heads, put food on the table and see our kids turn into respectable adults. If we all agree that those three things are not 'choices' but basic goals for most Americans - the cost to do those basic things is WILDLY different throughout the country.
So maybe we need to classify people by their Disney spending habits...? One suggested spectrum:

Deluxe Snob
Moderate Mediator
Value Vindicator
Off-site Slacker
Day-trip Trollop
 

bjlc57

Well-Known Member
listen.. I have ONE more trip in commitment that I made to the grandkids.. but if disney is going to price me out.. SO BE IT.. but just remember it was us DINOSAURS that built this place and we have the strong memories to keep it going and we are DYING OFF.. some EACH AND EVERY DAY.. so if the Bean counters want to rake in "record profits for a couple of year' and then go out of business.. well bully for them.. I am GOING ONE MORE TIME.. with the exception of some major family crisis.. but if you want to keep , and it not nickel and dime ing any more, its more like $20's and $50... well then take your couple of years of record profits.. I will buy and then sell my Disney stock.. and be done with you for the first time in 50 plus years.. and GUESS WHAT.. I don't think that i am alone in this thought pattern...
 

KCheatle

Well-Known Member
I'm really surprised there has not been ANY news on this. It seems like every day there is something now - fireworks coming back, restaurants re-opening, AKL re-opening date set, etc. etc.

I have to believe the discussion of if/how to bring FP back started months ago at corporate, and they have had travel predictions now for a while to compute numbers to analyze their bottom line. I am just really surprised that we're halfway through June on what is expected to be a crazy summer for travel and its just crickets from them??
 

pdude81

Well-Known Member
I'm really surprised there has not been ANY news on this. It seems like every day there is something now - fireworks coming back, restaurants re-opening, AKL re-opening date set, etc. etc.

I have to believe the discussion of if/how to bring FP back started months ago at corporate, and they have had travel predictions now for a while to compute numbers to analyze their bottom line. I am just really surprised that we're halfway through June on what is expected to be a crazy summer for travel and its just crickets from them??
Surprised here as well but all of this is hard to manage and predict. Perhaps they want to see the actual effect of more people in the park with standby only before making more adjustments. But for all we know they'll just unveil it as a feature for the 50th along with the other stuff they are mothballing.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
200k? You’re using 200k as your example? The median US income for an individual is $31,000 ($78,500 for households.). Do you know what median is? That means that half of all Americans make less than that amount. 200k is not middle class, per Pew research the start of upper class people are people who make more than twice the median income. Guess what 200k>78.5x2.

Upper class is not just the 1% or the 10%, by definition it is 1 in 3 Americans.
 
Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but HKDL also has a paid FP option (though free FP still exists also I believe…. Not clear if it was removed/suspended due to COVID).

$32 - $52 American depending on the day and how many passes you want
 

disneyfreak0710

Active Member
I'm really surprised there has not been ANY news on this. It seems like every day there is something now - fireworks coming back, restaurants re-opening, AKL re-opening date set, etc. etc.

I have to believe the discussion of if/how to bring FP back started months ago at corporate, and they have had travel predictions now for a while to compute numbers to analyze their bottom line. I am just really surprised that we're halfway through June on what is expected to be a crazy summer for travel and its just crickets from them??

My guess is part of the delay is because it's going to be tied into the Genie system, so maybe they aren't going to announce anything with FP until Genie is ready to go?
 
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