Remember that "free" dining = paying rack rate for the room. Rarely is the "free" dining package worth it vs. booking a room with other discounts and just paying for food as you go.
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FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was
- Thread starter MisterPenguin
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Remember that "free" dining = paying rack rate for the room. Rarely is the "free" dining package worth it vs. booking a room with other discounts and just paying for food as you go.
Yep. Don’t have to tell me.
Absolutely.
PirateFrank
Well-Known Member
I'll be perfectly honest here: I greatly prefer staying on-property and I have a few small reasons why. The primary reason is the bubble. To date, I have not been able to put a price on shutting myself off from the real world. I much prefer being on a cruise for that, but being inside the world of purple street signs is a close second. If I had to stay off property - all of a sudden mainstream news, driving amongst idiots with their heads in their phones and other stressors of life while not on vacation start to get under my skin. I'm able to shed all of that when I stay on property - and I value that tremendously. The second reason is driving - I do way too much of it up here in NY (and most drivers here are class A a-holes). I love vacays where I dont have to do any of it - and WDW is one of those vacations where I simply don't need to. Also, depending on where you stay on property, there is a *huge* time advantage over driving.
I know some folks dont see it that way, and I'm cool with that. I'm a DVC owner at Bay Lake since 2008 and being able to walk to the MK or take the monorail to Epcot is huge (see my comment above about huge advantage over driving). I'm fine with taking the bus to DHS/AK, even if its a longer trip than just driving. I paid for all of that upfront - but the value of it is increasing over time, not decreasing. I could barely afford staying at a monorail resort in 2008. The price today would have pushed me to moderate/value resort by now or off property - as it has with friends of ours who never bought into DVC when we did. They've gone from staying at the poly 10 years ago to staying at Pop for their next trip - and I think after it, they'll likely be off-property.
I know some folks dont see it that way, and I'm cool with that. I'm a DVC owner at Bay Lake since 2008 and being able to walk to the MK or take the monorail to Epcot is huge (see my comment above about huge advantage over driving). I'm fine with taking the bus to DHS/AK, even if its a longer trip than just driving. I paid for all of that upfront - but the value of it is increasing over time, not decreasing. I could barely afford staying at a monorail resort in 2008. The price today would have pushed me to moderate/value resort by now or off property - as it has with friends of ours who never bought into DVC when we did. They've gone from staying at the poly 10 years ago to staying at Pop for their next trip - and I think after it, they'll likely be off-property.
disneyfreak0710
Active Member
I can't see us ever staying on site again, especially if they monetize FP+. Granted, we're one of those middle-classers they're trying to price out, y'know, the All Star budget folk
However, in pricing our trip for 2022, compared to our 2019 trip, the same hotel room at All Star Movies for same time has increased $50 per night. That's a huge jump.
Magical Express is gone, so we'll have to add on roughly $150-200 for airport transportation.
The price of food has increased - having looked at menus it looks like it would be an increase of about $200+ for our family of four for a week (based on two meals a day plus snacks and one character meal breakfast).
So....already we're at an increase of $700-750 for the EXACT same trip we took 3 years ago, and that doesn't even include the increase in ticket prices!!! Those are just direct resort-related costs.
Now add in the fact that EMH will have gone from 1-2 hours morning or evening (and we LOVED the evening hours) to 30 minutes AND potentially the loss of free FP+??? It's asinine.
Dreaming of Disney World
Well-Known Member
It's worth it if you have 3-4 people staying in a value resort. We saved $1000 last time.
CastAStone
5th gate? Just build a new resort Bob.
Yes most people don’t benefit from free dining vs the standard cash promotion but some do.
The reason people on message boards harp on don’t do free dining is that for most people it’s not a better deal but most newbs assume it is a better deal for everyone. If it’s better for your family,
My family would theoretically have saved more with free dining on paper for our 2019 trip, but we never eat expensive enough food to “pay for” the dining plan in the first place, and when we sat down and compared it to what we actually prefer to eat, we were still better off with the hotel discount.
RobbinsDad
Well-Known Member
They ended the only perk I really cared about 2 years ago - free resort parking.
Agreed. But the thing is, the perks is part of what allowed them to get away with raising prices much faster than inflation. Back when "on site" was only 50% more than staying off-site, the location and "Disney bubble" could be more than sufficient reason to stay on-site. But with on-site locations charging 200% to 300% more than off-site, how long can Disney sustain those prices without offering something more?
And at least in my mind, this is especially true of the "value" resorts that aren't on the skyliner. The "old days" of WDW didn't have value resorts -- The classic resorts could typically boast locations far superior to off-site. But what is the draw of the All-Star resorts?? Their location really isn't much better than many superior and/or cheaper off-site hotels. Without on-site perks, what really is the point?
So without at least a fair level of on-site perks, I do think some resorts may gradually find greater occupancy difficulties, especially at the prices Disney wants to charge. We may never go back to having daily EMH + Magic Express + free dining + 60 day FPs, etc. But Disney will find they need some level of on-site perks.
Willmark
Well-Known Member
Why wouldn’t they though.
I mean most people are going to like paying more for less.
Exactly. But until the guest reservoir dries up they’ll keep trying to find their (the companies) tipping point.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
They have proven they will. This past year you got little for full price. Why offer perks with "UNPRECEDENTED DEMAND" and people will pay full price for a lesser experience.
Where did you stay, and what dining plan did you get "for free"? I’m not saying it’s not possible to save, because shrewd people can save some money with it, but I highly doubt you stayed at a value resort and saved $1000 with the QS dining plan. Disney does not provide "free" dining to lose that kind of money per room.
KCheatle
Well-Known Member
I agree with you on the bubble. Just about a month ago, my brother called me and convinced our family to meet his family down there in late October. He said we would stay at a Hilton in the Disney Springs resort and it would be very reasonably priced. We jumped on board after seeing the prices of rooms. But, the next day, I spent hours researching options to try and get us on what I consider "official" Disney property at a reasonable price. I had such FOMO about going down there and being so close to the bubble but not quite in it. Ultimately, we got a very close price for balcony rooms at Dolphin with my AAA discount. So, we moved over. Not a Disney resort per se, and I will admit I still have a feeling of FOMO even staying there, but I feel like we'll at least be within the "bubble." That makes me content, but the pull of being in the bubble is strong (at least for me)!!
Willmark
Well-Known Member
Glad I’m not in the Disney hype bubble, Mrs Willmark is the fan, I’m not.
EeyoreFan#24
Well-Known Member
There is a price I’m willing to pay for staying in the bubble. The convenience of being able to directly access a park or two with a boat or skyliner is worth it for me as well as the concept of being “At Disney”. Every time we have to go to the store across from Downtown Disney feels like it breaks the immersion and back to the real world for a minute.
M:SpilotISTC12
Well-Known Member
What your saying makes sense. But I can't help but think that if it starts to dry up, Disney will just take a part of a resort that is underpreforming and turn into DVC. GF (cash side) was sitting empty so they turn a building into DVC and it will sell like hotcakes. Obviously this is a deluxe hotel solution but Disney will find a way to keep the well wet.
StarshipDisney
Well-Known Member
Really? Where did you get such low numbers?
I know for a fact that my Contemporary reservation for September 2021 went up by exactly $550.62 over September 2020 (which was cancelled due to COVID). That is an 8.1% price increase from 2020 to 2021 and the numbers cannot lie. This is also lower than normal as Disney prices normally increase by 10% every year.
I would be very surprised if any Disney resort has under 5% yearly inflation.
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Andrew M
Well-Known Member
But those 'perks' is what justified the ridiculous ticket and hotel increases. Yes Disney was expensive compared to other costs at the time in the 70s, but the tickets and room rates have increased at over double the rate of inflation. My dad has a receipt for the Contemporary in 1972 for $40/night. about $260 in today's money. The average rack rate is almost 3 times that. Park entrance and a ticket book was $10, $64 in 2021 dollars.In the 70's the only 'perks' available were, well none. You could get the monorail from your hotel but that was it. The reality is that there'll always be those who find joy in staying in Disney, just because they're in Disney. Some hotels give you park views, some don't but you're already in Disney and that's enough for some.
Don't get me wrong, there's definitely less 'perks' than there was just over a year ago. I fully get that some have that perspective and understand why. At times though I read on here about how great Disney was in the 70's whereas now it's rubbish, yet that's not entirely true if at all. Back then the CM's were probably more engaging, well more of them were than they are now. But back then it was harder to get the job as a CM as they employed far, far, far less. This meant the ones you got were usually the best of the best, the ones with no personality or enthusiasm rarely got the job. I remember my first Visit to the MK and Space Mountain was the only 'mountain' in Disney World and MK was the only park. When the MK opened, there were no 'mountains' at all.
Granted back then, Disney had less money. But the idea that they'd just throw it around on everything for the guests was wrong. They did more for the guests but it was still a business. MK opened with less attractions than it has now, no coasters at all. No perks for hotel guests as such, just the perk of staying in Disney. If an attraction is built now if it's not cutting edge technology and bigger, better, longer or faster then anything else we're led to believe that Disney only ever built these type of attractions in the past with no 'filler', also not strictly true.
I also think the older we get and the more times we've been to Disney, the more we notice. For instance as a teen in the mid 80's I started to notice all the things you could see from the monorail that I'd not noticed before. The dirty bin areas around the Contemporary, out of control shrubbery near the monorail station, the bins and junk behind Space Mountain as you neared the MK, the show buildings and backstage areas from the MK skyway and the not so well hidden backstage area from the railroad. Now these things had probably always been there, but hadn't been noticed because there was so much nice stuff to see that your eyes weren't attracted to it. With familiarity after many visits though, you start looking around and noticing these things more because you're not as distracted by the good stuff and realise that everything isn't as perfect as you once thought.
On here we're a bit fanatical beyond 'normal folks' about Disney World, well I am at least. This means we want what's best for us and sometimes miss the bigger picture. Some on here almost have this idea that if a new attraction is built that doesn't appeal to their age group, that it means Disney doesn't care about what they want. Some think "I've done that attraction for 10 years and I'm bored with it now, it needs replacing" without realising the joy it still gives millions of people who aren't bored with it. Disney are certainly financially greedier than they were, some CM's don't seem as engaging and at times the budget cuts are frustrating especially if the ride length of a new attraction suffers. But they still do build new attractions, many very good. Most slated the idea of Pandora on here, "Who's interested in that, it'll be rubbish" etc. Yet one of it's attractions is one of the highest rated rides anywhere by many people. When Galaxy's Edge opened people were falling over each other to call it terrible and yet when ROTR opened many people were blown away by it. If Guardians follows suit in Epcot it will again be hugely popular as will Tron and Rat.
Disney can and should do better at times, yet to me anyway it seems a bit lazy to just rubbish everything Disney does and say everything was better 'back in the day'. I'm not saying nothing wasn't, but a bit of perspective is needed I feel rather than the minority who just hate everything. Constructive criticism is fine, as is hating everything if that's your bag. But again the idea that everything was perfect and now isn't, just doesn't seem as cut and dry to me as it does to some others.
By the way to the OP, I'm not saying you are all negative or falling out with you. Just quoted you for one thing and then kind of got carried away so don't think I'm calling you out on my reply
Look at what you got in late 2019 vs what you get now for essentially the same price. Free Magicbands, 60 day Fastpass+ Window, 2-3 hours extra in a different park every day, luggage transfer to and from the airport, fireworks, parades, character meets, park hopping whenever you wanted. All of that is now gone, albeit atleast temporarily for some of them. I just don't think it's reasonable to ask the same price for a greatly reduced product.
Then again the shortened Halloween party for $160, which I thought was a complete rip-off, brought down the Disney phone lines for 3 days, so what do I know. I guess there is an inexhaustible supply of people who would pay anything.
mergatroid
Well-Known Member
Not arguing with you on that, we rarely stay in Disney. 1 night in last 20 years just for early access to DHS when GE opened.
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