Express Monorail Problems..

[hpyhnt 1000]

For me, this is no different than having an overpass or bridge collapse on World Dr. Look at it this way: if a something were to collapse on World Dr. (say the Osceola Pkwy bridge), would Disney forever close it off and declare it inoperable? No, they would (I'd like to think) take the time and money to fix it because its a main crossroads through the resort.

The monorail isn't an attraction; its a transportation system and thus part of the infrastructure of the resort. At peak times, the Express and Resort Lines must be transporting at least ten to twelve thousand passengers in an hour. How would you replace the loss of the system? Buses back and forth between the MK and the MK resorts? Parking trams up and down World Dr. to/from the TTC? Its just not a long term viable thing. When a road crumbles, you fix it. The beamway is the "road" for the monorail, and since the monorail is an integral part of the transportation structure of the resort, it can't simply be left vacant. :shrug:

 

[hrcollectibles]

the fleet will HAVE to be replaced one day.... nothing lasts forever...

Sorry But Diamonds are Forever and so is Ric Flair.... Wooooo

And Didn't the monorails get an interior refurbishment not to long ago?

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Sorry But Diamonds are Forever and so is Ric Flair.... Wooooo

And Didn't the monorails get an interior refurbishment not to long ago?

Yes they did. From what I can tell, they got new linoleum (replaced the old carpeting), new padded siding, a new handrail configuration (along with the removal of the center lean post), and new LED ceiling lighting. Also, don't forget the computer upgrades the fleet got in 2007 I believe.

In short, I think the Mark VI trains will be with us for some years to come.

 

[Phonedave]

I think if were any other attraction, yes. Then it's a matter of profit. But when you tinker with something that's beloved, and a symbol, I think it just comes down to HAVING to do it.:shrug:

Also remember that River Country was tucked away in an out of the way place.

They did not have to demo the whole place. Simply shutter the place and put up some fencing. Nobody sees it unless they wander over there or rent a boat.

On the other hand, Disney would have to remove just about all of the beamway (at quite a cost) or else anbody approaching MK or EPCOT would be reminded of the monoral that once was.

-dave

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Also remember that River Country was tucked away in an out of the way place.

They did not have to demo the whole place. Simply shutter the place and put up some fencing. Nobody sees it unless they wander over there or rent a boat.

On the other hand, Disney would have to remove just about all of the beamway (at quite a cost) or else anbody approaching MK or EPCOT would be reminded of the monoral that once was.

-dave

Not to mention that if it was left unattended for some time, structural integrity would prove a problem. The liability of falling chunks of concrete anyone? Yeah, that would look great as you drive into the MK or walk through Epcot. :dazzle: :lol:

 

[coastermaster83]

Oh so I know this is an odd idea here but couldn't they just switch the express and resort sides for a few weeks or days. What I mean is the resorts would run off the express beam on shuttle mode since they get used less and the express would run off the resort beam since its not broken. All it would take is putting up a sign change for a week wouldn't it. Its been about 2 years since Ive been to the park but i think it could work that way right?:shrug:

 

[DisneyEverest]

There is so many stuff Disney needs to fix for Disney World. I remember a thread about the monorails being refurbished but IMO they look nothing refurbished.

 

[wvdisneyfamily]

Slightly off topic...What's with all of the severe storms pounding the East lately? We had a terrible storm yesterday afternoon. A tree branch came within inches of smashing my husband's truck. It's been a very tough year to build a house. I think we're about a month and a half behind my ideal schedule.

 

[joel_maxwell]

You know, I've actually become to prefer boat travel these days as well. We love the little boats to the GF and Poly. The Ferry is also just a nice ride across the lagoon instead of the crammed up, no A/C monorails these days.

The only boat that i refuse to take since my grandmother could move faster is the boat from Epcot to DHS. Holy Cow. It seemed the boat went idle speed since the stops were so close in proximity. Stops at BC, S&D then to DHS.... that ride was torturous.

 

[Timon]

wvdisneyfamily: Slightly off topic...What's with all of the severe storms pounding the East lately?
- Don't know about the weather in the rest of the East but here in Orlando it's "Welcome to Summer - The Lightning Capital of the World"

Broken Beams: If they are driving trains over the damage this is just surface damage. The beams are made of tons of tensioned rebar with a foam filled center. Disney still has their "beam factory" over in the Admin Area for beams and posts. FYI: When they cut the track to add the Epcot switch (1980) it took weeks longer than expected, to cut and remove that section because they were that tough.

WDW Trains: Are built by Bombardier of Canada, a mass transit company. They are very heavy duty compared to Disneyland's Monorail Ride. Most Mass Transit Cars last 30 to 40 years and these people have the experience to build them.
Who ever said no air conditioning regarding WDW trains is wrong, WDW trains have always been air conditioned, although not so good in the old Mark IV's. Disneyland only has AC in the cabs - go figure! They would have to upgrade the power service for their entire system to support full train AC and that's if there is spare space to be found in each car. Love their style though!!!!
FYI - The Las Vegas Monorail is a variation on the current Mark VI trains and are 100% automated - no pilots!
FYI - Train capacity: One Disneyland Train holds 122 people vs WDW Train hold 360 people and One TDL Train by Hitachi holds 571 people.

And just for fun -

 

[Phonedave]

wvdisneyfamily: Slightly off topic...What's with all of the severe storms pounding the East lately?
- Don't know about the weather in the rest of the East but here in Orlando it's "Welcome to Summer - The Lightning Capital of the World"

Broken Beams: If they are driving trains over the damage this is just surface damage. The beams are made of tons of tensioned rebar with a foam filled center. Disney still has their "beam factory" over in the Admin Area for beams and posts. FYI: When they cut the track to add the Epcot switch (1980) it took weeks longer than expected, to cut and remove that section because they were that tough.

In a prestressed concrete beam loaded from above, the load bearing meduim in the upper portion is the concrete. In the lower portion it is the steel. Concrete does not do too well in tension.

I do not know the exact make up of the Monorail beams, but they are a bit of a different design because they are a dynamic loading situation. As the trains pass over they are loaded and unloaded. In such a situation, too much prestressing of the steel can work against you inthe deloaded phase.

Depending on where, and to what extent, the concrete has failed, it may be cosmetic or strucural.

Based on the fact that they patched it and continued to use it, I would say its cosmetic

The failing patch would of course effect the tires on the monoral, and that is why they would stop using it.

To get that patch to "stick" the have to make sure the substrate conceret is clean and sound, and provide some sort of bond assistance. Either with a chemical bonding agent, or by mechanical means.

All those classes in reinforced concrere design just came flooding back to me

-dave

 

[montyz81]

Also remember that River Country was tucked away in an out of the way place.

They did not have to demo the whole place. Simply shutter the place and put up some fencing. Nobody sees it unless they wander over there or rent a boat.

On the other hand, Disney would have to remove just about all of the beamway (at quite a cost) or else anbody approaching MK or EPCOT would be reminded of the monoral that once was.

-dave

It is entirely possible. The People Mover track is still there in Disneyland and very visable. It doesn't get used.

 

[nolatron]

The only boat that i refuse to take since my grandmother could move faster is the boat from Epcot to DHS. Holy Cow. It seemed the boat went idle speed since the stops were so close in proximity. Stops at BC, S&D then to DHS.... that ride was torturous.

Yeah, you could probably walk there faster, heh.

 

[nolatron]

Who ever said no air conditioning regarding WDW trains is wrong, WDW trains have always been air conditioned, although not so good in the old Mark IV's.

Yup, I do know there *is* A/C in the WDW Monorails, it just seems that more times than none they either are not on, don't work, or are blowing warm outside air. I don't really recall ever stepping on a "cool" monorail before. :shrug:

 

[archangel2790]

yeah, I have to agree about the a/c on the WDW system. I've experienced cool air, and have actually stepped onto a cool car, but that was late at night, after most of the park had cleared.

More often, it seems like there is somewhat cooler air on the monorail, but it never seems to work very well. I guess this could be caused by the constant opening and closing of the doors, that they really don't get a chance to truly cool off. Maybe it's also the fact that the ambient outside temperature being near the 90's or higher somewhat keeps the thing from cooling as well.

Ah well... any car filled full of hot and sweaty tourists is going to heat up, that much is certain. Commercial walk-in coolers, anyone? lol

 

[DougK]

Yup, I do know there *is* A/C in the WDW Monorails, it just seems that more times than none they either are not on, don't work, or are blowing warm outside air. I don't really recall ever stepping on a "cool" monorail before. :shrug:

Wow are you kidding? Sometimes I get onto a WDW monorail car and it is FREEZING. If you get in a monorail car with no A/C just go to the next car.

 

[hardcard]

The trains at WDW indeed DO have a/c... and it was quite 'the cold' the other night when I boarded.

 

[Timon]

In a prestressed concrete beam loaded from above, the load bearing meduim in the upper portion is the concrete. In the lower portion it is the steel. Concrete does not do too well in tension.

I do not know the exact make up of the Monorail beams, but they are a bit of a different design because they are a dynamic loading situation. As the trains pass over they are loaded and unloaded. In such a situation, too much prestressing of the steel can work against you inthe deloaded phase.

Depending on where, and to what extent, the concrete has failed, it may be cosmetic or strucural.

Based on the fact that they patched it and continued to use it, I would say its cosmetic

The failing patch would of course effect the tires on the monoral, and that is why they would stop using it.

To get that patch to "stick" the have to make sure the substrate conceret is clean and sound, and provide some sort of bond assistance. Either with a chemical bonding agent, or by mechanical means.

All those classes in reinforced concrere design just came flooding back to me

-dave

I'm not an enigineer but the "track record" (sorry, I just had to) for monorail beams is pretty good. Disneyland monorail since 1959, Seattle monorail since 1963 and WDW since 1971 (ignoring expansions)

The fact that they are driving over the damage speaks to the stability of the beam. Driving slowly implies - don't make it worse until the real fix is ready. Someone commented about damaging the tires. I know the tires are tough and last 100,000 miles, which sounds amazing, how much do they cost!

If you ever have the chance to walk under the beams you'll notice the occasional patch. Evidently they are checked and repaired regularly.

The picture of beam construction in my previous post is a Las Vegas monorail beam and pretty much the same as the WDW beams. They are building the loose frame phase before it is lifted to an automated form where curves and elevations are introduced, pretensioning and then concrete is added. Later the new beams are cured out in the open before transport.

When they build the EPCOT line I was amazed how fast they build it. Once the foundations are in the posts and beams pop up as fast as they can make them. Later the gaps are filled, electrical and signaling installed. Lots of prefab very little local custom work. Way faster and cheaper than elevated rail.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

When they build the EPCOT line I was amazed how fast they build it. Once the foundations are in the posts and beams pop up as fast as they can make them. Later the gaps are filled, electrical and signaling installed. Lots of prefab very little local custom work. Way faster and cheaper than elevated rail.

The irony is that while the Epcot beam is about 10 years younger, I hear its in worse shape than the original beam around Seven Seas Lagoon. :hammer:

You're right though about the "track record" of monorail lines. I was thinking about how Disneyland has made it about 50 years now with no major problems (of course, their line is much shorter and the weather conditions are bit less extreme, but even still). And if the WDW beams were made along the lines of the beams in your Vegas pic, then they should be able to stick around for a good number of years still; thats A LOT of rebar!

 

[Timon]

The only place I noticed as being too warm was the cab. Might just act like a greenhouse. Maybe a former Pilot can speak to that. I would think a packed train would overwhelm the AC. I usually find myself on the Resort line with light crowds so I haven't had to battle sweaty tourists.

Did a video shoot once on a monorail and darn near froze to death, even with lights! OK it was February with the AC on.