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News Expose reveals WDC control in online fan community

scottieRoss

Active Member
Haha I knew I was going to be called out for ticket booklets. The tickets were fair and affordable. You knew exactly what you were buying in plain English. In some ways it was actually more transparent than today. If you do research into the booklets, you’ll find that a collection of tickets was sold for one price at gate. You were guaranteed a day of fun at one price. Now you have to buy a base ticket. Then if you really want to enjoy more than a handful of attractions, you’ll need to buy additional fast passes (coming soon!) or buy into a special event. Worst of all, sometimes those events cut into regular park hours. On October 17th, I’d have to pay 124 USD to go to the Magic Kingdom even though the park closes at 6 PM for “a special ticketed event.”

Instead of building attractions, Disney is keen to just kick people out and charge people again for special events or line cutting. The more and more they do this, the less and less valuable a park ticket is. It’s starting to feel like a park ticket is kind of the lowest class of citizens. Then we have our resort hotel guests. Then we have the individuals willing to pay out for the holiday events. Then we have our nighttime and morning access events. Then we have the tours. Soon they’ll add on the paid Fast Passes too!

The best comparison is to buy a ticket booklet. Then to use the tickets you just bought you have to buy another booklet and be staying at the Disneyland Hotel.

Oh and as for Batuu. I’ve been trying to stay open minded. I haven’t visited. But I’ll tell you this, there was nothing “thoughtful and intentioned” about cramming it into Disneyland. Nothing. I’ll see how the storytelling is in a few months!

May the Spires keep you!

Edit:Corrected date
there is so much wrong here. While yes, the ticket books were affordable, they were also misleading. You would buy your ticket book and head over to the magic kingdom at 10:00am, just to realize that the ticket book did not let you do everything. While there were less attractions than today, you had even less tickets. And those dang A and B tickets. You wanted a book full of E tickets. So it meant that Dad had to find one of those ticket booths to buy more tickets or give you dollars for more rides.
As afternoon settled in, armed with those additional tickets, you headed off to ride the haunted mansion only to discover that the whole place was shutting down. That's right, the whole park closed at 6pm every day. (not just on select days in August thru December)
So now what was Bob and the family supposed to do for the rest of the day?
Pay for a Dinner Show
Pay for a Sunset Cruise on 7 Seas Lagoon
Pay for the Water Ski Show out front
Pay for a horse ride over at the Fort.
Pay for scuba diving lessons.
Pay for cocktails on the junk.
Pay to use the tennis courts at the Contemporary.
Pay for a few rounds of golf.
Pay for the Dinner Show at the Fort.
Pay for the Luau at the Polynesian Village.
Watch the free fireworks? What fireworks?
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
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there is so much wrong here. While yes, the ticket books were affordable, they were also misleading. You would buy your ticket book and head over to the magic kingdom at 10:00am, just to realize that the ticket book did not let you do everything. While there were less attractions than today, you had even less tickets. And those dang A and B tickets. You wanted a book full of E tickets. So it meant that Dad had to find one of those ticket booths to buy more tickets or give you dollars for more rides.
As afternoon settled in, armed with those additional tickets, you headed off to ride the haunted mansion only to discover that the whole place was shutting down. That's right, the whole park closed at 6pm every day. (not just on select days in August thru December)
So now what was Bob and the family supposed to do for the rest of the day?
Pay for a Dinner Show
Pay for a Sunset Cruise on 7 Seas Lagoon
Pay for the Water Ski Show out front
Pay for a horse ride over at the Fort.
Pay for scuba diving lessons.
Pay for cocktails on the junk.
Pay to use the tennis courts at the Contemporary.
Pay for a few rounds of golf.
Pay for the Dinner Show at the Fort.
Pay for the Luau at the Polynesian Village.
Watch the free fireworks? What fireworks?
There was nothing at all misleading about the ticket books. They stated how many coupons were included and exactly which attractions required which coupons. A ticket book also included about 12 tickets whereas now Disney only wants you to have 8 experiences (a definition wider than attractions) in that same day, for more money and has spent billions to maintain that limit. Disney has driven down attractions per guest per hour and you praise them for it.
 

bsiev1977

Well-Known Member
Back to the original point of the article referenced in this post. Every company with a large online community following tries as hard as they can to influence the course of the conversation.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I think you missed the point. The park's original operating hours were 10-6 daily and was full of up-charges.
As for the tickets, the first ticket books were 7 attractions. The first upcharge was an 11 attraction booklet. Not 12
I might be confusing Disneyland books with Magic Kingdom ones, but it doesn’t matter. It was anticipated that you could do 7 attractions in the shorter day. A longer day offered the same attractions at the same cost per attraction that was known, advertised up front and, outside of the three Six Flags parks, the industry standard for admission. Now in a much longer, much more expensive day, Disney only wants you to do one more experience. Today is also a pretty lousy day to be complaining about past park hours seeing as the Magic Kingdom closes at 6:00 tonight. If someone didn’t get 8 experiences into their day today they can’t pay a nominal fee and use the rest of their admission tomorrow or even a future visit.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Back to the original point of the article referenced in this post. Every company with a large online community following tries as hard as they can to influence the course of the conversation.
Sometimes they do it themselves, and other times they rely on creepily devoted fans who defend anything the organization does, and who would blast the same decision if a competitor did it. ;)

I don’t know whether the Snyder column is 100% accurate. I do know that Disney plants audience members for Q&A sessions, and that they have a small department that monitors fan forums, and that they encourage their employees to check forums for feedback on new initiatives.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
I might be confusing Disneyland books with Magic Kingdom ones, but it doesn’t matter. It was anticipated that you could do 7 attractions in the shorter day. A longer day offered the same attractions at the same cost per attraction that was known, advertised up front and, outside of the three Six Flags parks, the industry standard for admission. Now in a much longer, much more expensive day, Disney only wants you to do one more experience. Today is also a pretty lousy day to be complaining about past park hours seeing as the Magic Kingdom closes at 6:00 tonight. If someone didn’t get 8 experiences into their day today they can’t pay a nominal fee and use the rest of their admission tomorrow or even a future visit.
I don't know where you're getting this "Disney only wants you to do 8 experiences". That's a bit of a warping of the concept that they found that guests needed to have at least 8 experiences to feel satisfied, to feel that they've gotten their money's worth.

It's very easy, even on the most crowded of days, to get in well more than 8 experiences, especially if you go rope drop to close.
 

Monorail_Red_77

Well-Known Member
Sometimes they do it themselves, and other times they rely on creepily devoted fans who defend anything the organization does, and who would blast the same decision if a competitor did it. ;)

I don’t know whether the Snyder column is 100% accurate. I do know that Disney plants audience members for Q&A sessions, and that they have a small department that monitors fan forums, and that they encourage their employees to check forums for feedback on new initiatives.
I know that my Disney related Facebook Group has Disney CM's in it. Some regular CM's, while others are Manager level. I'm pretty sure some are there to keep an eye on things.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I don't know where you're getting this "Disney only wants you to do 8 experiences". That's a bit of a warping of the concept that they found that guests needed to have at least 8 experiences to feel satisfied, to feel that they've gotten their money's worth.

It's very easy, even on the most crowded of days, to get in well more than 8 experiences, especially if you go rope drop to close.
It is the underlying reason for the small attraction roster of Disney’s Animal Kingdom, Disney’s Hollywood Studios, Disney’s California Adventure, Walt Disney Studios Park and Hong Kong Disneyland. Even with its massive size, Shanghai Disneyland is filled with empty space and not attractions.

It is the underlying reason behind FastPass.

It is the underlying reason why Disney spent billions on Next Gen.

It is the underlying reason why the world’s most visited theme park has abandoned space from when it was less visited.
 

MAGICFLOP

Active Member
Back to the original point of the article referenced in this post. Every company with a large online community following tries as hard as they can to influence the course of the conversation.
Yes, but as a few of us have pointed out in here in other threads, there has been a moral decline in the direction of Disney (esp since Iger), they run ABC news, ESPN and now own Fox. Disney has gone from deflecting the narrative to creating the narrative. Before the internet, Disney was able to crush any story negative about them, but they lost control when the internet came of age. Look for Disney to buy more and more media outlets and then they will play a major role in king making in America.
 

kpilcher

Well-Known Member
Sometimes they do it themselves, and other times they rely on creepily devoted fans who defend anything the organization does, and who would blast the same decision if a competitor did it. ;)

I don’t know whether the Snyder column is 100% accurate. I do know that Disney plants audience members for Q&A sessions, and that they have a small department that monitors fan forums, and that they encourage their employees to check forums for feedback on new initiatives.
There is no question what gets posted is watched to some extent. I expect that in my day job, but some things I’ve discussed / reacted to here have been mentioned before. And it’s not just Disney who watches.
But are you surprised?? These are companies with tens to hundreds of millions to $1+ billion at stake with each roll of the dice. They’d be foolish not to monitor sites like this one.
 

larryz

Can't 'Member Anything
Premium Member
Irregardless*, while Disney may try to influence opinion online, it is clear there are a few sites where their efforts are fruitless... this being one of them.

Do something good and we applaud. Do something stupid or selfish and we condemn.

Sycophants we are not.

Most of us.

Just for those of you who h8 this non-standard synonym...
 

Darth Snips

Well-Known Member
Disney took the lesson to abandon “theme” from theme parks. It’s really hard to convey themes or messages through physical spaces. The setting is just a tool that the artist uses to tell the story. The lesson Bob and Co took, was to build the setting minus the story. I could have been the creative director of Cars Land. See this town from the movie? Build it. See this street from Ratatouille? Build it. See the palace from Frozen? Build it.

Instead of being told a story, Iger decided what people really wanted was to be able to live action role play (larp). He decided that what people really wanted was to sight see their favorite things from movies. No story needed.

Thus the experience is a meaningless collection of attractive to hideous buildings with no story or soul. That’s how we got Star Wars Land with no music. It’s not a story to be told, but just a place to walk around in. It’s super easy to make a replica of a street. Heck, Joe Rohde could make a compelling replica of an African village street. But he didn’t. Why? Because instead he had a story to tell and then drew on real places to create a fictional one.

Edit: I hit the post button too early! I’ll add one further example. I could make a compelling replica of the Taj Mahal, but would it be theme entertainment? No, because it would have no meaning. It would just be a building made to look like the Taj Mahal. The meaning comes from a story to tell. Suppose I was telling a story about the Indian people (though the idea of an “Indian people” is a little bit of a modern construct), and as part of the story I showcased Indian architecture. That building would have meaning.

Disney has been creating buildings that look like the movies (heck we’re supposed to pretend they’re from the movies) but have no greater storytelling message. Imagineering was never about “tricking” you into thinking you’re in a story. It was about telling a story so compelling that you’d be brought into it as a participant! That is Imagineering!
This is a very interesting point. Thanks for posting this! I’ve never really thought about the notion that these hyper-immersive, single-IP lands are giving us setting at the expense of story. What an interesting idea.

Mind if I play devil’s advocate? Maybe you aren’t giving some of the creative choices behind these lands enough credit. For example, you mention the lack of music in GE as an example of poor storytelling. I propose the opposite: I think lackadaisical storytelling would be simply reusing a movie soundtrack. That music was to written engage with you emotionally within the context of the film. When removed from that context, it only serves as a reminder of the film itself. In the context of a theme park land, it does not tell a story; it merely reminds of a story you've already seen.

I think Pandora and Batuu actually do tell a story through their soundtracks (or lack thereof). Instead of recreating something from the films or reminding you of certain scenes from those films, the sound effects serve to weave an entirely new narrative. Pandora could have relied upon James Horner's gorgeous music to connect with guests; instead it crafts a wholly unique living, breathing soundscape that tells you far more about the world you're visiting. When you walk past Cantina and overhear a bounty hunter threatening a smuggler to pay his debts Oga before she comes calling, that communicates much more about the story and emotion of Black Spire Outpost than simply playing the Imperial March.

Anyways, I just used music as an example. I do think there is some great storytelling that has come out of these modern single-IP lands. But I also see what you mean: the era of deliberate, in-depth storytelling being the driving force of a large-scale land seems to have come to an end with Potter. Fascinating stuff to think about. Thanks again for posting your POV!
 

Phil12

Well-Known Member
This is a very interesting point. Thanks for posting this! I’ve never really thought about the notion that these hyper-immersive, single-IP lands are giving us setting at the expense of story. What an interesting idea.

Mind if I play devil’s advocate? Maybe you aren’t giving some of the creative choices behind these lands enough credit. For example, you mention the lack of music in GE as an example of poor storytelling. I propose the opposite: I think lackadaisical storytelling would be simply reusing a movie soundtrack. That music was to written engage with you emotionally within the context of the film. When removed from that context, it only serves as a reminder of the film itself. In the context of a theme park land, it does not tell a story; it merely reminds of a story you've already seen.

I think Pandora and Batuu actually do tell a story through their soundtracks (or lack thereof). Instead of recreating something from the films or reminding you of certain scenes from those films, the sound effects serve to weave an entirely new narrative. Pandora could have relied upon James Horner's gorgeous music to connect with guests; instead it crafts a wholly unique living, breathing soundscape that tells you far more about the world you're visiting. When you walk past Cantina and overhear a bounty hunter threatening a smuggler to pay his debts Oga before she comes calling, that communicates much more about the story and emotion of Black Spire Outpost than simply playing the Imperial March.

Anyways, I just used music as an example. I do think there is some great storytelling that has come out of these modern single-IP lands. But I also see what you mean: the era of deliberate, in-depth storytelling being the driving force of a large-scale land seems to have come to an end with Potter. Fascinating stuff to think about. Thanks again for posting your POV!
That's why I have advocated for the inclusion of Star Wars rap in GE:
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Quick Update: The Motley Fool has released a retraction of sorts for its Disney recommendations from early 2019. Back then, the financial analysts proclaimed Disney was still underpriced because of its broad scope of IP and customer loyalty. Now the Fool is saying it was wrong, and the market has proven Disney is overpriced, and the company is paying for its greed.

Obviously, Disney’s internal analysts also thought they could raise prices forever, as if families delight in unlimited discretionary income and don’t have any other bills in life. The latest MK Dessert Party price hikes have crossed from silly to offensive.

Let’s see what happens.

Motley’s recent admission Disney costs too much:
Read It Here.

Motley’s first glib analysis suggesting Disney could never be too expensive:
Read It Here.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
Quick Update: The Motley Fool has released a retraction of sorts for its Disney recommendations from early 2019. Back then, the financial analysts proclaimed Disney was still underpriced because of its broad scope of IP and customer loyalty. Now the Fool is saying it was wrong, and the market has proven Disney is overpriced, and the company is paying for its greed.

Obviously, Disney’s internal analysts also thought they could raise prices forever, as if families delight in unlimited discretionary income and don’t have any other bills in life. The latest MK Dessert Party price hikes have crossed from silly to offensive.

Let’s see what happens.

Motley’s recent admission Disney costs too much:
Read It Here.

Motley’s first glib analysis suggesting Disney could never be too expensive:
Read It Here.
TMF had been beating up Disney for years over ESPN. I don't regard them as... good.

Poor, poor Disney...

410089
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
TMF had been beating up Disney for years over ESPN. I don't regard them as... good.

Poor, poor Disney...

View attachment 410089
TMF is a group of analysts, one of which has been singing Disney’s praises for years. (Read the first article.) They’re regarded as a good source for snippets of industry news—even if you don’t personally like them.

The ESPN concern was a very real, albeit premature, conversation on Wall Street. And as with many other recent developments, the WS analysts tend to overreact before settling down into reality.

Also, ESPN has nothing to do with the growing concern that Disney has finally overpriced itself.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
TMF is a group of analysts, one of which has been singing Disney’s praises for years. (Read the first article.) They’re regarded as a good source for snippets of industry news—even if you don’t personally like them.

The ESPN concern was a very real, albeit premature, conversation on Wall Street. And as with many other recent developments, the WS analysts tend to overreact before settling down into reality.

Also, ESPN has nothing to do with the growing concern that Disney has finally overpriced itself.
TFW you kill the golden goose.
 
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