News Expose reveals WDC control in online fan community

[Phil12]

This is a very interesting point. Thanks for posting this! I’ve never really thought about the notion that these hyper-immersive, single-IP lands are giving us setting at the expense of story. What an interesting idea.

Mind if I play devil’s advocate? Maybe you aren’t giving some of the creative choices behind these lands enough credit. For example, you mention the lack of music in GE as an example of poor storytelling. I propose the opposite: I think lackadaisical storytelling would be simply reusing a movie soundtrack. That music was to written engage with you emotionally within the context of the film. When removed from that context, it only serves as a reminder of the film itself. In the context of a theme park land, it does not tell a story; it merely reminds of a story you've already seen.

I think Pandora and Batuu actually do tell a story through their soundtracks (or lack thereof). Instead of recreating something from the films or reminding you of certain scenes from those films, the sound effects serve to weave an entirely new narrative. Pandora could have relied upon James Horner's gorgeous music to connect with guests; instead it crafts a wholly unique living, breathing soundscape that tells you far more about the world you're visiting. When you walk past Cantina and overhear a bounty hunter threatening a smuggler to pay his debts Oga before she comes calling, that communicates much more about the story and emotion of Black Spire Outpost than simply playing the Imperial March.

Anyways, I just used music as an example. I do think there is some great storytelling that has come out of these modern single-IP lands. But I also see what you mean: the era of deliberate, in-depth storytelling being the driving force of a large-scale land seems to have come to an end with Potter. Fascinating stuff to think about. Thanks again for posting your POV!

That's why I have advocated for the inclusion of Star Wars rap in GE:

 

[Darth Snips]

That's why I have advocated for the inclusion of Star Wars rap in GE:

 

[wdwtopten]

For example, you mention the lack of music in GE as an example of poor storytelling.

Wait. GE doesn't have any music in the outdoors areas?

 

[tirian]

Quick Update: The Motley Fool has released a retraction of sorts for its Disney recommendations from early 2019. Back then, the financial analysts proclaimed Disney was still underpriced because of its broad scope of IP and customer loyalty. Now the Fool is saying it was wrong, and the market has proven Disney is overpriced, and the company is paying for its greed.

Obviously, Disney’s internal analysts also thought they could raise prices forever, as if families delight in unlimited discretionary income and don’t have any other bills in life. The latest MK Dessert Party price hikes have crossed from silly to offensive.

Let’s see what happens.

Motley’s recent admission Disney costs too much:
Read It Here.

Motley’s first glib analysis suggesting Disney could never be too expensive:
Read It Here.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Quick Update: The Motley Fool has released a retraction of sorts for its Disney recommendations from early 2019. Back then, the financial analysts proclaimed Disney was still underpriced because of its broad scope of IP and customer loyalty. Now the Fool is saying it was wrong, and the market has proven Disney is overpriced, and the company is paying for its greed.

Obviously, Disney’s internal analysts also thought they could raise prices forever, as if families delight in unlimited discretionary income and don’t have any other bills in life. The latest MK Dessert Party price hikes have crossed from silly to offensive.

Let’s see what happens.

Motley’s recent admission Disney costs too much:
Read It Here.

Motley’s first glib analysis suggesting Disney could never be too expensive:
Read It Here.

TMF had been beating up Disney for years over ESPN. I don't regard them as... good.

Poor, poor Disney...

 

[tirian]

TMF had been beating up Disney for years over ESPN. I don't regard them as... good.

Poor, poor Disney...

View attachment 410089

TMF is a group of analysts, one of which has been singing Disney’s praises for years. (Read the first article.) They’re regarded as a good source for snippets of industry news—even if you don’t personally like them.

The ESPN concern was a very real, albeit premature, conversation on Wall Street. And as with many other recent developments, the WS analysts tend to overreact before settling down into reality.

Also, ESPN has nothing to do with the growing concern that Disney has finally overpriced itself.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

TMF is a group of analysts, one of which has been singing Disney’s praises for years. (Read the first article.) They’re regarded as a good source for snippets of industry news—even if you don’t personally like them.

The ESPN concern was a very real, albeit premature, conversation on Wall Street. And as with many other recent developments, the WS analysts tend to overreact before settling down into reality.

Also, ESPN has nothing to do with the growing concern that Disney has finally overpriced itself.

TFW you kill the golden goose.

 

[brb1006]

View attachment 409461

A classic from the early days of the Internet.

 

[bcoachable]

This is a very interesting point. Thanks for posting this! I’ve never really thought about the notion that these hyper-immersive, single-IP lands are giving us setting at the expense of story. What an interesting idea.

Mind if I play devil’s advocate? Maybe you aren’t giving some of the creative choices behind these lands enough credit. For example, you mention the lack of music in GE as an example of poor storytelling. I propose the opposite: I think lackadaisical storytelling would be simply reusing a movie soundtrack. That music was to written engage with you emotionally within the context of the film. When removed from that context, it only serves as a reminder of the film itself. In the context of a theme park land, it does not tell a story; it merely reminds of a story you've already seen.

I think Pandora and Batuu actually do tell a story through their soundtracks (or lack thereof). Instead of recreating something from the films or reminding you of certain scenes from those films, the sound effects serve to weave an entirely new narrative. Pandora could have relied upon James Horner's gorgeous music to connect with guests; instead it crafts a wholly unique living, breathing soundscape that tells you far more about the world you're visiting. When you walk past Cantina and overhear a bounty hunter threatening a smuggler to pay his debts Oga before she comes calling, that communicates much more about the story and emotion of Black Spire Outpost than simply playing the Imperial March.

Anyways, I just used music as an example. I do think there is some great storytelling that has come out of these modern single-IP lands. But I also see what you mean: the era of deliberate, in-depth storytelling being the driving force of a large-scale land seems to have come to an end with Potter. Fascinating stuff to think about. Thanks again for posting your POV!

I have not caught up in this thread- so please excuse how late I am to the table as I respond before finishing catching up... but I just came across this (your) post and wanted to add that it must take a very high opinion by the imagineers/creators of most park visitors intelligence to assume that most of us, as visitors, can muster up enough imagination to play their created game of immersion. I personally love it! But I have a feeling many visitors are not going to get it... and to the Imagineers that are reading- thanks for trusting us to get it!

 

[freediverdude]

That, and there's been plenty of members around here who have been more than....adamant towards their love and affection for everything TWDC has been doing....

This is what kind of clued me in eventually to the "other big board" that starts with "dis" being more than just fans discussing. You would be openly attacked by a certain gaggle of posters over there over anything negative to try to control the narrative about it, and got me to drift away from that particular site.

 

[Bender123]

A classic from the early days of the Internet.

That is next on the list of cutbacks...replacing Mickey and Pluto with "Worker and Parasite...Eastern Eurpoes favorite cat and mouse team"

 

[RobWDW1971]

I have not caught up in this thread- so please excuse how late I am to the table as I respond before finishing catching up... but I just came across this (your) post and wanted to add that it must take a very high opinion by the imagineers/creators of most park visitors intelligence to assume that most of us, as visitors, can muster up enough imagination to play their created game of immersion. I personally love it! But I have a feeling many visitors are not going to get it... and to the Imagineers that are reading- thanks for trusting us to get it!

Oh we get it. It's just poorly executed and the resulting experience is dull and not very entertaining. Your local Renaissance Faire has more immersion and entertainment.

 

[Mickeyboof]

This is a very interesting point. Thanks for posting this! I’ve never really thought about the notion that these hyper-immersive, single-IP lands are giving us setting at the expense of story. What an interesting idea.

Mind if I play devil’s advocate? Maybe you aren’t giving some of the creative choices behind these lands enough credit. For example, you mention the lack of music in GE as an example of poor storytelling. I propose the opposite: I think lackadaisical storytelling would be simply reusing a movie soundtrack. That music was to written engage with you emotionally within the context of the film. When removed from that context, it only serves as a reminder of the film itself. In the context of a theme park land, it does not tell a story; it merely reminds of a story you've already seen.

I think Pandora and Batuu actually do tell a story through their soundtracks (or lack thereof). Instead of recreating something from the films or reminding you of certain scenes from those films, the sound effects serve to weave an entirely new narrative. Pandora could have relied upon James Horner's gorgeous music to connect with guests; instead it crafts a wholly unique living, breathing soundscape that tells you far more about the world you're visiting. When you walk past Cantina and overhear a bounty hunter threatening a smuggler to pay his debts Oga before she comes calling, that communicates much more about the story and emotion of Black Spire Outpost than simply playing the Imperial March.

Anyways, I just used music as an example. I do think there is some great storytelling that has come out of these modern single-IP lands. But I also see what you mean: the era of deliberate, in-depth storytelling being the driving force of a large-scale land seems to have come to an end with Potter. Fascinating stuff to think about. Thanks again for posting your POV!

Woah wait wait wait.

Have you experienced a bounty hunter threatening a smuggler to pay his debts Oga before she comes calling?

Because that doesn’t happen. It should happen. But it doesn’t. It’s just quiet. A lot of quiet.

 

[RobWDW1971]

Woah wait wait wait.

Have you experienced a bounty hunter threatening a smuggler to pay his debts Oga before she comes calling?

Because that doesn’t happen. It should happen. But it doesn’t. It’s just quiet. A lot of quiet.

Soooooooooo much awkward silence - then you hear a food and beverage cast member mumble something about "May the spires keep you" or something....

 

[Darth Snips]

Wait. GE doesn't have any music in the outdoors areas?

Can’t quite tell if you’re being sarcastic here or not, so I apologize in advance if I’m misunderstanding you here. No, there is no background music in most of GE. Instead, they play in-universe sound effects such as x-wings and TIE fighters flying overhead, droids beeping and bopping, various devices broadcasting radio transmissions, and voices coming out of overhead windows. It’s been one of the more divisive creative decisions in the land. I’m personally a huge fan of this; others feel that they should have used John Williams’ score a la Harry Potter.

Woah wait wait wait.

Have you experienced a bounty hunter threatening a smuggler to pay his debts Oga before she comes calling?

Because that doesn’t happen. It should happen. But it doesn’t. It’s just quiet. A lot of quiet.

Let me clarify: I have not physically met a bounty hunter threatening anyone. The bounty hunter character, Harkos, is sadly not present in the land. I assume he was cut alongside the other aliens and droids. Rather I overheard this conversation coming out of a window near the cantina. I was referencing it as part of the land’s soundscape. I used it as an example of why I think the “realistic” sounds were a better choice for storytelling and place-setting than a movie soundtrack.

 

[Mickeyboof]

Can’t quite tell if you’re being sarcastic here or not, so I apologize in advance if I’m misunderstanding you here. No, there is no background music in most of GE. Instead, they play in-universe sound effects such as x-wings and TIE fighters flying overhead, droids beeping and bopping, various devices broadcasting radio transmissions, and voices coming out of overhead windows. It’s been one of the more divisive creative decisions in the land. I’m personally a huge fan of this; others feel that they should have used John Williams’ score a la Harry Potter.


Let me clarify: I have not physically met a bounty hunter threatening anyone. The bounty hunter character, Harkos, is sadly not present in the land. I assume he was cut alongside the other aliens and droids. Rather I overheard this conversation coming out of a window near the cantina. I was referencing it as part of the land’s soundscape. I used it as an example of why I think the “realistic” sounds were a better choice for storytelling and place-setting than a movie soundtrack.

Noises from droids that aren’t there. Sounds of ships flying around that aren’t there. Bodiless voices on the radio during the Falcon queue. Where *is* everyone!?

These are poor creative choices. Very poor.

As discussed (endlessly) in other threads, I don’t believe anyone wants the movie soundtracks on a loop, being pulled from Spotify. In-world music is fine by me. Music that sounds natural is fine.

What’s missing are the VITAL musical themes by Williams, not the songs as a whole. But the motifs and themes are just necessary to sell the theme park land. Batuu isn’t real, you can tell by the fat people and the name tags.

But why can’t the wind chimes sometimes magically sound like Leia’s Theme? Why can’t there be in-world music in the marketplace that sometimes has a Williams motif? Without it, all you hear is that damn steam sound from Ronto Roasters?

In the forest, on the wind you should hear music that tells you YOURE in the REISTANCE base!! Just like the movies would set up the scene.

It’s a theme park land!!

I wish at Harry Potter more original soundscapes were recorded. It does sound like the movie score. It’s a bit annoying to hear hedwigs theme while drinking at hog’s head. But It works in the streets and shops, when the music is dedicated to the story.

For all the “story” promised at Batuu, there IS no story. Funny how that worked out.

 

[Mickeyboof]

The music! The alien creature! The falcon! This is what I thought Star Wars Land would be like.

But only the fancy people with their YouTube channels get to experience this kind of magic. The YouTube channels that Disney uses to control their imagine by giving people free passes, invites, and perhaps even pay them outright! Oh well. Bright suns.

 

[RobWDW1971]

.

Noises from droids that aren’t there. Sounds of ships flying around that aren’t there. Bodiless voices on the radio during the Falcon queue. Where *is* everyone!?

They're with Oga and Savi on the last Star Tours flight out to Endor.

 

[bcoachable]

Oh we get it. It's just poorly executed and the resulting experience is dull and not very entertaining. Your local Renaissance Faire has more immersion and entertainment.

If you say so.
But I've never seen a falcon (beutiful, I must admit) at the Renaissance Festival looking quite like our Falcon at Black Spire...
And heaven forbid it rain while I'm visiting said fair, cause I will have to pay $250 upcharge to get my truck unstuck from the parking lot.
I'd rather spend that on a Light Saber and a Droid myself.

 

[RobWDW1971]

If you say so.
But I've never seen a falcon (beutiful, I must admit) at the Renaissance Festival looking quite like our Falcon at Black Spire...
And heaven forbid it rain while I'm visiting said fair, cause I will have to pay $250 upcharge to get my truck unstuck from the parking lot.
I'd rather spend that on a Light Saber and a Droid myself.

So SWGE has a Falcon and concrete.

It's so alive, entertaining, and immersive!!!

(I've read a lot of rationalizing on this board for the dull, lifeless, depressing SWGE, but the lack of dirt is a highlight)