News EPCOT's Harmonious to be replaced with new nighttime spectacular Luminous

[Epcot82Guy]

If she seemed happy and care-free 5-10 years ago and was a closeted lesbian at the time, the "happy" side you were seeing was likely a facade to fit in. I know from experience. After coming out, she likely started more feeling comfortable expressing the challenges and frustrations that she previously felt in private and kept to herself. Her talk of identity is also likely tied to the fact that she now feels that she is expressing her true self, whereas before she was holding parts of herself back.

As someone who helps others with this and has experienced it himself, it's a very case-by-case situation. Your assessment may very well be spot on. There's also the secondary aspects of internalized rejection that many of us face. In that case, we still deal with all the internal hatred we have for ourselves. So, we can cling to identities as shields vs. authentically taking them good or bad. We then see the slightest afront to our identity as a huge attack - because we're still trying to run from those parts within. Coming out is sort of a two-phase process (speaking in very gross overstatements). You accept your identity - then you accept yourself, you strengths, your limits and what that means being part of a diverse society. In other words, your humanity. (And, that exists well beyond the queer community. I'm just using it as an example.) It's all part of the process of acceptance - and a very personal one.

Now - back to topic... Nothing that finding the humanity within each of us and between each of us actually has some pretty powerful meaning. Illuminations: Reflections of Us...?

 

[denyuntilcaught]

Now - back to topic... Nothing that finding the humanity within each of us and between each of us actually has some pretty powerful meaning. Illuminations: Reflections of Us...?

Not us coming up with a better plot for a fireworks show than what Disney did for Harmonious.

 

[tpoly88]

The barges are horrible and ruin Epcot's atmosphere. I'm rarely a complainer, but I posted this over a year ago on a different thread and I feel this even more strongly now that the barges have been there for a while:



Now the show itself requires specific lagoon viewing locations to properly see the screens, and yet guests see ugly barge hardware all around the lagoon, all day long. ?! It's crazy. A reversal from Illuminations which is fully viewable lagoon-wide and the barge disappeared until evening.

The barges ruin the beauty and themed environment so completely, I just can't understand how anyone approved them. (And the barge fountain idea was also alarmingly ill-conceived. What were they thinking?)

No nighttime show is worth this trade-off!

i could not agree more, you're a 1000% correct. was there yesterday, sitting having a nice glass of wine on a bench in front of Norway under the trees and staring at the barges and the stargate. the reason i hate harmonious is the destruction of the lagoon/lake during the day. when you take the time to sit and look you realize how ugly this looks during the day. I still cannot believe anyone put pencil to paper and said "this is a great idea". Plus if you cannot get a spot to watch the screen, the show just makes no sense as its just random fire works going off. With modern tech, i hope RoE next year does not need to take out this view.

 

[doctornick]

i could not agree more, you're a 1000% correct. was there yesterday, sitting having a nice glass of wine on a bench in front of Norway under the trees and staring at the barges and the stargate. the reason i hate harmonious is the destruction of the lagoon/lake during the day. when you take the time to sit and look you realize how ugly this looks during the day. I still cannot believe anyone put pencil to paper and said "this is a great idea". Plus if you cannot get a spot to watch the screen, the show just makes no sense as its just random fire works going off. With modern tech, i hope RoE next year does not need to take out this view.

To be fair, when it was approved, the idea was to remove the apparatus to backstage every night and bring it back out every day. Once that was determined to be impractical due to their size, the new idea was to use the water during the day to “hide” them and that… didn’t work either. So I don’t think you can fully blame the sharp pencil guys - they were sold something different that what was made.

 

[Vinnie Mac]

With modern tech, i hope RoE next year does not need to take out this view.

Why do people still think ROE is coming back...

 

[Vinnie Mac]

Not us coming up with a better plot for a fireworks show than what Disney did for Harmonious.

Easy to armchair imagineer when you don't have higher up executives reviewing your ideas and changing things.

 

[Vinnie Mac]

Tapestry of Nations seems to be in a new SSE light show for the 40th. Cool to have something but given that EPCOT has been and still is my favorite theme park in the world I don't like this "IDGAF" approach Disney has taken to this... At least the 100th anniversary will have more in store for all parks around the world including EPCOT.

 

[jrhwdw]

Tapestry of Nations seems to be in a new SSE light show for the 40th. Cool to have something but given that EPCOT has been and still is my favorite theme park in the world I don't like this "IDGAF" approach Disney has taken to this... At least the 100th anniversary will have more in store for all parks around the world including EPCOT.

There's a 40th SSE Show coming??????

 

[sunshine]

To be fair, when it was approved, the idea was to remove the apparatus to backstage every night and bring it back out every day. Once that was determined to be impractical due to their size, the new idea was to use the water during the day to “hide” them and that… didn’t work either. So I don’t think you can fully blame the sharp pencil guys - they were sold something different that what was made.

I think the issues with the barges were knowable, if not obvious, in a reality-based evaluation of this proposal from the start. At the very least knowable in a reality-based engineering and visual design review. I can't believe this ever went forward.

The five barges are so ugly and huge, they'd be enormous eyesores even if they'd only floated out in the evening.

 

[GhostHost1000]

You mean you don't enjoy looking at a vertical line of LEDs in the middle of the lagoon?

Well half the time I’ve watched harmonious the middle projections haven’t work anyways lol

 

[Vinnie Mac]

There's a 40th SSE Show coming??????

Apparently. Was watching a livestream and they managed to catch testing of it on their way out the parking lot area. New lighting patterns I don't think I've seen before and you could hear Tapestry of Nations faintly playing in the distance.

 

[jrhwdw]

Apparently. Was watching a livestream and they managed to catch testing of it on their way out the parking lot area. New lighting patterns I don't think I've seen before and you could hear Tapestry of Nations faintly playing in the distance.

OK, I thought I missed something from DPB. We'll hear about it probably Fri or Sat if Epcot reopens in time for the 40th.

 

[Vinnie Mac]

OK, I thought I missed something from DPB. We'll hear about it probably Fri or Sat if Epcot reopens in time for the 40th.

This is just speculation on my part but I bet they'll probably announce the return of Epcot Forever or details about the new show (or maybe both) on October 1st too.

 

[jrhwdw]

This is just speculation on my part but I bet they'll probably announce the return of Epcot Forever or details about the new show (or maybe both) on October 1st too.

I've been thinking that as well.......Still not happy about no 40th Tag.............

 

[Incomudro]

It is my understanding that the Reflections of Earth hardware was taken backstage and destroyed. However,...I would give my left arm to see it it's basic theme re-made with brand new hardware and have Gavin write a new score that carries the RoE thoughts further.

Read this...it will blow your mind.....

"On it [Earth] everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam."

It was told to me by a person involved with the creation of RoE that THIS paragraph is literally the exact concept that was used as THE actual basic premise of RoE back in 1999.

In my humble opinion...how could a light and happy "Harmonious" show with nothing really to say....ever compete with this incredibly powerful RoE "meaningful" concept that applies to every single living creature on Earth?

I always feel that Harmonious and it's "When you find out who your are,...you'll find out what you need" message is not a positive or constructive one. I feel like Harmonious "celebrates" division and sub division and sub-sub division and sub-sub-sub division of people focuses way too much on their "identity".

Reflections of Earth is more the other way. It UNIFIES everything and everybody...not just "people" and "cultures" but of all life on this crazy rock floating in space. We are all together on this thing and we are all one. (Humans, animals, plants, bacteria, etc....all life)

Everything that lives also must die....and we go on.....

The blue highlighted area, that's a Carl Sagan line.
Offhand, I'm not sure if it's the direct quote or not - but it's essentially what Sagan said.

 

[TTA94]

Apparently. Was watching a livestream and they managed to catch testing of it on their way out the parking lot area. New lighting patterns I don't think I've seen before and you could hear Tapestry of Nations faintly playing in the distance.

Would rather them bring the parade back, maybe a small version around SSE. But im sure nothing exists anymore.

 

[lentesta]

This is just speculation on my part but I bet they'll probably announce the return of Epcot Forever or details about the new show (or maybe both) on October 1st too.

I’ve been away for a while. Has it been announced that EF is the temporary replacement for Harmonious?

 

[DCBaker]

I’ve been away for a while. Has it been announced that EF is the temporary replacement for Harmonious?

No public announcement yet. However, see these comments -

I know this is a lofty as, but I am hoping the new show will be ready in time for Summer 2023. Will be at OKW for a week in July.

You will almost certainly be seeing EPCOT Forever

 

[Comped]

I’ve often wondered this-in all seriousness how high level do decisions like this go? Is the board really a part of this? Would this be Chapek? Josh? Or do we just always assume high level execs make these decisions? There’s a part of me that assumes, with how important parks are, that these decisions must be life or death ones made at the highest levels of the company but then the other part of me wonders if any execs even pay attention and are just approving numbers on a spreadsheet

When it came to RoE, Eisner was heavily involved, it all came out of a board meeting where he wanted a millennium celebration of some sort, and WDE was the only part of the company that could realistically deliver with the budget and the amount of time they had, not enough time or money for a gigantic movie, or to build a new ride or anything like that. But enough for what was intended to be only a two-year show. It being a show at Epcot either came during the meeting or not too long after, I need to look in my books and videos and refresh my memory on that...

Gavin Greenaway does work for Hans Zimmer's company. Gavin has conductued the orchestra for many of Hans Zimmer's recordings. It's my understanding that Hans Zimmer was the original RoE composer but had to back out for another project/movie. Hans then sent Gavin Greenaway to take over and Gavin wrote the whole thing and prestented it to the RoE team. They made changes together and boom...it was done. Gavin wrote the score and conducted the recordings in the UK and the rest was history.

I often wonder if Hans Zimmer was kicking himself on the rear for giving RoE away to one of his friends! Hehe. That's OK...Hans did perfectly fine anyway.

I absolutely believe Gavin Greenaway is a genious.

As I was told they actually re-recorded a portion because of a very minor musical difference in tempo, although I'm not exactly sure where that was in the show. Cost Disney a boatload of money.

Honestly, i could just image a room of suits just sitting there going over figures and charts and stuff and basically calculating the success of something by some kind of data collected online or whatever and then eventually green-lighting it.

This is why Frank Wells and Michael Eisner did so well because they were a little bit like Walt and Roy. There was the dreamer, the creative and the other was the realist and figures guy. There needs to be that balance.

Right now the company is lost at sea with a totally clueless captain. The ship looks amazing though. With all the pointless bells and whistles you could imagine...

As I noted above, in this case, reflections was literally the result of an executive meeting at the highest level. Most entertainment wasn't that high up, although movie releases usually had an order from Eisner requesting a parade or a show, and he generally approved any new shows, either at his home in Colorado, at the headquarters in california, or occasionally in Orlando. I don't know of a single show WDE did that didn't have Eisner's approval in some fashion...

It is my understanding that the Reflections of Earth hardware was taken backstage and destroyed. However,...I would give my left arm to see it it's basic theme re-made with brand new hardware and have Gavin write a new score that carries the RoE thoughts further.

Read this...it will blow your mind.....

"On it [Earth] everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam."

It was told to me by a person involved with the creation of RoE that THIS paragraph is literally the exact concept that was used as THE actual basic premise of RoE back in 1999.

In my humble opinion...how could a light and happy "Harmonious" show with nothing really to say....ever compete with this incredibly powerful RoE "meaningful" concept that applies to every single living creature on Earth?

I always feel that Harmonious and it's "When you find out who your are,...you'll find out what you need" message is not a positive or constructive one. I feel like Harmonious "celebrates" division and sub division and sub-sub division and sub-sub-sub division of people focuses way too much on their "identity".

Reflections of Earth is more the other way. It UNIFIES everything and everybody...not just "people" and "cultures" but of all life on this crazy rock floating in space. We are all together on this thing and we are all one. (Humans, animals, plants, bacteria, etc....all life)

Everything that lives also must die....and we go on.....

It is my understanding there is a second set of at least the barges that still exist to this day. As for that paragraph... You are absolutely right and it's something that not a lot of people know about. It wasn't initially thought as deep as that, but it grew to be more and more complex as the whole thing was developed. Somewhere in my notes and videos is a long discussion about how reflections came to be, and how it essentially was the Pinnacle of Disney nighttime entertainment. I have always said that nothing will beat it without trying, especially as so many of the people involved with the creative process have either passed on or retired. The new breed of people dealing with Disney entertainment just don't get it...

 

[hopemax]

I am catching up on this thread after being at WDW when it started. Add me to the list of people cheering the removal of the tacos and Stargate. I watched this show during the D23 Cosmic Rewind event, so perfect view... but the Stargate wasn't working. There were moments when you could freeze it and take a snapshot and see what they were going for, but, yeah, as a whole thing it just didn't do it for me.

I also want to thank @Cliff for the ROE and Gavin Greenaway stories. I was fortunate to attend the 2000 NFFC convention, and the main banquet entertainment were presentations by Don Dorsey (MSEP), Steve Davison (doing his Believe human firework pitch), and the final speaker was Gavin presenting Reflections of Earth. I would usually take notes, and record on a mini tape recorder, unless we were told no recordings. So now I'm tempted to dig into my archives and see what I have. I wish I could remember all the details, can't believe that was 22 years ago, I just remember that we joked about having to follow Steve, but Gavin also had an amazing presentation. And like Cliff mentioned, so much depth in what they were trying to accomplish. This was about a month and a half before we got to see the show in person, so when we got to WDW in September, we were already invested in the show, and knew things like about the torches. It did not disappoint.

But that's the problem now, Burbank can't see beyond the things Disney already has created and whatever new the Studio might put out that sticks. Not that each segment of the company could create something new that had worth. So of course we get a show with familiar music, or the schmaltzy "magic" stuff. And unless that core thought changes, I don't have that much hope for future projects akin to ROE. There was a quote in I think the Sherman Brother's book, Walt's Time, but it could have also been something X Atencio said, about the importance of park music because it was the thing that you could take with you when you went home. And while now we have Tik Tok, YouTube, @marni1971 videos and everyone has a phone and so we can "take" more of the park home, but for those of us who grew up with all those songs from the 60s, 70s and 80s they connect us to the parks in away that the film music can't. The soundtrack for ROE is one of those pieces. I don't mind Epcot Forever because it ties back into old memories, but it does need something more to be truly special.