EPCOT Entertainment cuts

[unkadug]

From this very website:

• World Showcase Players will have its final performance September 25 2014.
• Off Kilter in Canada, Mo’Rockin in Morocco and the Spirit of America will be performing for the final time on September 27 2014.

New live entertainment planned includes a traditional Berber music and dance troupe in Morocco, a corps of dynamic flag-waving performers in Italy, a thrilling lumberjack-inspired show in Canada, and a Celtic folk music ensemble at the United Kingdom.

WSP, Off Kilter, Mo'Rockin, Spirit of America- 4 acts cut.
Berber Dance Troupe, Flag Corps, Lumberjack, Celtic Group- 4 acts added.

My point is that THIS ISOLATED INCIDENT is not a cut in total number of acts. It may be a cut in budget, it may be a cut in quality, it may not be, but it is NOT a cut in the number of acts performing for guests. Not this singular, isolated incident.

Can we at least agree on that? I know you don't like that I'm trying to stay positive about that, and that's cool. But can we at least agree on some of the facts. I will consent that for the year of 2014 there are less acts in Epcot at the end than at the beginning. Now can you concede that this specific announcement does not reduce the total number of acts?

I think the argument is that there are less Equity shows, not that there are less shows total.

 

[Fractal514]

I think the argument is that there are less Equity shows, not that there are less shows total.

I think both arguments are being made. I can't speak to the Equity shows, because we need that data beyond just Off Kilter and the ones specifically affected by these cuts. I'm addressing the lists that were posted earlier and calling in to question whether or not this specific change actually contributes to THAT trend.

 

[wm49rs]

From this very website:

• World Showcase Players will have its final performance September 25 2014.
• Off Kilter in Canada, Mo’Rockin in Morocco and the Spirit of America will be performing for the final time on September 27 2014.

New live entertainment planned includes a traditional Berber music and dance troupe in Morocco, a corps of dynamic flag-waving performers in Italy, a thrilling lumberjack-inspired show in Canada, and a Celtic folk music ensemble at the United Kingdom.

WSP, Off Kilter, Mo'Rockin, Spirit of America- 4 acts cut.
Berber Dance Troupe, Flag Corps, Lumberjack, Celtic Group- 4 acts added.

My point is that THIS ISOLATED INCIDENT is not a cut in total number of acts. It may be a cut in budget, it may be a cut in quality, it may not be, but it is NOT a cut in the number of acts performing for guests. Not this singular, isolated incident.

Can we at least agree on that? I know you don't like that I'm trying to stay positive about that, and that's cool. But can we at least agree on some of the facts. I will consent that for the year of 2014 there are less acts in Epcot at the end than at the beginning. Now can you concede that this specific announcement does not reduce the total number of acts?

You forget that the Ziti Sisters were also cut this year. And you seem to want to willingly overlook both the cuts to parades and opening ceremonies at three out of four parks, the reduction in entertainment options at EP alone over the years, and the fact that Martin confirmed the reduction in the Entertainment budget. Can YOU consent to those facts?

 

[unkadug]

Youtube vids. Posts on this site. Common sense.

That makes absolutely no sense...but OK.

 

[Fractal514]

You forget that the Ziti Sisters were also cut this year. And you seem to want to willingly overlook both the cuts to parades and opening ceremonies at three out of four parks, the reduction in entertainment options at EP alone over the years, and the fact that Martin confirmed the reduction in the Entertainment budget. Can YOU consent to those facts?

I did not overlook them, I intentionally left them out, and stated that I was doing such. I am talking about THIS press release and nothing else. Can we agree that in THIS press release and not taking into account any other cuts, that there is no decrease in the total number of performers?

 

[wm49rs]

I did not overlook them, I intentionally left them out, and stated that I was doing such. I am talking about THIS press release and nothing else. Can we agree that in THIS press release and not taking into account any other cuts, that there is no decrease in the total number of performers?

No, because even then Martin still confirmed the cut to the budget, the Ziti Sisters were cut in the same fiscal year, and this is an apparent part of a larger trend....

 

[bingie]

Disney Entertainment:

• Jammitors
• Voices Of Liberty
• Mariachi Cobre
  
• Oktobrfest Musikanten

Non-Disney Entertainment

• The British Revolution
• Jeweled Acrobats
• France - Serveur Amusant
• Japan - Matsuriza
• Italy - Sergio

 

[Fractal514]

No, because even then Martin still confirmed the cut to the budget, the Ziti Sisters were cut in the same fiscal year, and this is an apparent part of a larger trend....

Dude, I'm not talking budget, I'm not talking zitis, I'm asking, can you accept and agree that in this specific press release the total number of acts is equal, that is it, nothing outside of that. If you can't, why can't you?

 

[unkadug]

Kinda think this thread has run its course.

I agree. People are starting to let personal feelings get in the way.

 

[wm49rs]

Dude, I'm not talking budget, I'm not talking zitis, I'm asking, can you accept and agree that in this specific press release the total number of acts is equal, that is it, nothing outside of that. If you can't, why can't you?

Spare me. You simply want to assign blinders to a situation to make it more palatable. But you still refuse to accept a basic fact about this (to apply your own narrow parameters): Martin still confirmed this decision was due to a cut in the Entertainment budget. So while you may wish to hum a happy tune, the bottom line is that these unnecessary changes were made to further reduce already whittled down entertainment options, regardless of the number of new acts.

 

[DisUniversal]

From this very website:

• World Showcase Players will have its final performance September 25 2014.
• Off Kilter in Canada, Mo’Rockin in Morocco and the Spirit of America will be performing for the final time on September 27 2014.

New live entertainment planned includes a traditional Berber music and dance troupe in Morocco, a corps of dynamic flag-waving performers in Italy, a thrilling lumberjack-inspired show in Canada, and a Celtic folk music ensemble at the United Kingdom.

WSP, Off Kilter, Mo'Rockin, Spirit of America- 4 acts cut.
Berber Dance Troupe, Flag Corps, Lumberjack, Celtic Group- 4 acts added.

My point is that THIS ISOLATED INCIDENT is not a cut in total number of acts. It may be a cut in budget, it may be a cut in quality, it may not be, but it is NOT a cut in the number of acts performing for guests. Not this singular, isolated incident.

Can we at least agree on that? I know you don't like that I'm trying to stay positive about that, and that's cool. But can we at least agree on some of the facts. I will consent that for the year of 2014 there are less acts in Epcot at the end than at the beginning. Now can you concede that this specific announcement does not reduce the total number of acts?

Sure, it's not just about an attraction count. If they replaced Haunted Mansion with another dumbo like spinner ride, Space Mountain with a bungie jump trampoline, Big Thunder Mountain with some bumper cars and Pirates of the Caribbean with a Tilt-a-Whirl, you'd still have the same number of attractions. Would there be a reason to stay positive?

 

[bingie]

With 20 acts (plus a parade) in 2002, and 11 acts (with no parade) in 2014 that's pretty disturbing.

 

[Fractal514]

Spare me. You simply want to assign blinders to a situation to make it more palatable. But you still refuse to accept a basic fact about this (to apply your own narrow parameters): Martin still confirmed this decision was due to a cut in the Entertainment budget. So while you may wish to hum a happy tune, the bottom line is that these unnecessary changes were made to further reduce already whittled down entertainment options, regardless of the number of new acts.

I have stated, in replies to you, that I acknowledge the budgetary aspect of this AND that at the end of the year there will be less acts than at the beginning. I'm trying to have a rational and calm conversation with you and in order to determine if that is possible, I'm asking you to concede one small point, which you are not willing/able to do. I can see now that I should no longer attempt to have this type of conversation with you.

 

[Fractal514]

Sure, it's not just about an attraction count. If they replaced Haunted Mansion with another dumbo like spinner ride, Space Mountain with a bungie jump trampoline, Big Thunder Mountain with some bumper cars and Pirates of the Caribbean with a Tilt-a-Whirl, you'd still have the same number of attractions. Would there be a reason to stay positive?

As I've stated before, making false analogies such as this does not further your argument. I get what you are saying, but refuse to concede that these new acts will be inferior to the ones they are replacing. I acknowledge that you might like them less, but I just don't see enough proof yet that they will automatically be bad entertainments. I happen to think that several of these acts sound good and think they are more in line with what I prefer than some of the acts being cut. That's all I'm saying.

 

[DisUniversal]

As I've stated before, making false analogies such as this does not further your argument. I get what you are saying, but refuse to concede that these new acts will be inferior to the ones they are replacing. I acknowledge that you might like them less, but I just don't see enough proof yet that they will automatically be bad entertainments. I happen to think that several of these acts sound good and think they are more in line with what I prefer than some of the acts being cut. That's all I'm saying.

Not saying the new acts will be bad, just saying that I'm fairly confident that they'll be inferior to the acts they are replacing. I don't need to see proof to know that a Dumbo type spinner ride could never replace Haunted Mansion any more than I need proof to know that a "Thrilling Lumberjack show" could never replace Off Kilter.

 

[wm49rs]

I have stated, in replies to you, that I acknowledge the budgetary aspect of this AND that at the end of the year there will be less acts than at the beginning. I'm trying to have a rational and calm conversation with you and in order to determine if that is possible, I'm asking you to concede one small point, which you are not willing/able to do. I can see now that I should no longer attempt to have this type of conversation with you.

So, one can only have a conversation with you if they concede your (narrow) points? Good to know....

 

[Fractal514]

Whether something is better can can be judged by how popular it is. May not be 'better' for every single person, but is it's more popular for the majority of customers it's better for both them and for business.

Popularity can easily be judged by looking at not only by how many people care enough to upload videos of an act to Youtube, but also by the view count that those videos get. Can also be judged by the amount of buzz/discussion that surrounds a band on these and other forums, especially at times like this.

Can't help you with common sense. Sorry.

Gangam Style is the number one YouTube video of all time with 2,075,430,458 as of this evening. The top result for Beethoven's 5th Symphony has only 1,517,135 as of this evening. I not so sure that popularity, especially of the YouTube variety is always an indication of quality.

 

[DisUniversal]

Gangam Style is the number one YouTube video of all time with 2,075,430,458 as of this evening. The top result for Beethoven's 5th Symphony has only 1,517,135 as of this evening. I not so sure that popularity, especially of the YouTube variety is always an indication of quality.

What would be more enjoyable for guests at a theme park and better for a business trying to bring in those guests?

 

[Fractal514]

Not saying the new acts will be bad, just saying that I'm fairly confident that they'll be inferior to the acts they are replacing. I don't need to see proof to know that a Dumbo type spinner ride could never replace Haunted Mansion any more than I need proof to know that a "Thrilling Lumberjack show" could never replace Off Kilter.

IN YOUR OPINION. I honestly never cared for Off Kilter, and maybe my family and i would enjoy the lumberjack show, I don't know because I haven't seen it yet. And from a factual standpoint, Off Kilter IS being replaced by a Lumberjack show, whether you like it or not. I'm sorry to be snippy, but I can't understand why people insist of acting like their OPINIONS on these acts matters anymore than any others.

 

[Fractal514]

What would be more enjoyable for guests at a theme park and better for a business trying to bring in those guests?

What you are implying is the very dumbing down and "walmartification" that so many others in this thread have been railing against and accusing others of supporting for the past 45 pages. Do you really think that Disney should do what it can to appeal to the broadest base possible with acts that would bring in the most guests, regardless of quality?