EPCOT Entertainment cuts

[wm49rs]

No, I'm saying that if you can't concede a small simple fact, simply because you don't like it, then how could we ever have a conversation in which both sides are open to listen to and consider the opinions of the other?

That's quite simply one of the most ironic things I've read today, coming from you. Enjoy the new acts, because I'm sure there will be fewer of them in the not-too-distant future.

 

[DisUniversal]

IN YOUR OPINION. I honestly never cared for Off Kilter, and maybe my family and i would enjoy the lumberjack show, I don't know because I haven't seen it yet. And from a factual standpoint, Off Kilter IS being replaced by a Lumberjack show, whether you like it or not. I'm sorry to be snippy, but I can't understand why people insist of acting like their OPINIONS on these acts matters anymore than any others.

Ok, someone with a small child scared of "ghost" might enjoy a 4th Dumbo in the park more than Haunted Mansion as could someone who's faith would lead them to believe their spirit will be tossed into a pit of fire. Doesn't mean that another spinner would be an improvement over HM. The scenario of a lumberjack show replacing Off Kilter isn't all that different.

 

[PhotoDave219]

What would be more enjoyable for guests at a theme park and better for a business trying to bring in those guests?

DuBussy. I love DeBussy, especially in France.

 

[Fractal514]

That's quite simply one of the most ironic things I've read today, coming from you. Enjoy the new acts, because I'm sure there will be fewer of them in the not-too-distant future.

Why is it ironic? I've conceded many points and admitted that much of what I have posted is based on opinion. How is it ironic at all?

 

[Fractal514]

Ok, someone with a small child scared of "ghost" might enjoy a 4th Dumbo in the park more than Haunted Mansion as could someone who's faith would lead them to believe their spirit will be tossed into a pit of fire. Doesn't mean that another spinner would be an improvement over HM. The scenario of a lumberjack show replacing Off Kilter isn't all that different.

I think the scenarios are quite different. You're discussing a headliner attraction that is beloved the world over being replaced with a minor attraction that would be a clone of something that already exists. You are comparing that to one live entertainment that performs sporadically being replaced with another.

 

[DisUniversal]

What you are implying is the very dumbing down and "walmartification" that so many others in this thread have been railing against and accusing others of supporting for the past 45 pages. Do you really think that Disney should do what it can to appeal to the broadest base possible with acts that would bring in the most guests, regardless of quality?

No, the comment I made was regarding to Youtube view counts as an indication of the talent and popularity of an act. In the majority of cases, that is true. Yes, you can find plenty of stupid crap on Youtube with high view counts, but when you're comparing apples to apples, it's a very good indicator. You attempted to use an apples to oranges comparison to refute that...and failed. Sorry.

 

[lazyboy97o]

While I care friends are unemployed, and about the long ranging effects on my city's arts scene, the main point of Equity v non Equity is that Equity are paid a lot more (and treated better). Citing strictly as evidence this was purely a financial, not show-based, decision.

Once again, that makes absolutely no sense. That is not how collectively bargained contracts work in otherwise closed shops located right to work states. It is also not how Equity works. More than likely, the new acts did not yet qualify for membership and their employment at Walt Disney World now qualifies them for Equity membership if they desire to join. The simplest means for non-members to become members is to be hired.

 

[Fractal514]

No, the comment I made was regarding to Youtube view counts as an indication of the talent and popularity of an act. In the majority of cases, that is true. Yes, you can find plenty of stupid crap on Youtube with high view counts, but when you're comparing apples to apples, it's a very good indicator. You attempted to use an apples to oranges comparison to refute that...and failed. Sorry.

I don't think I failed, I think I've shown that Youtube views can be accumulated for a variety of things. Let's try this another way, what were the two acts you were comparing using Youtube? Adventurers Club and what else?

 

[Tigger1988]

If we're using Youtube hits as proof of "popularity" might as well replace every WS act with cats.

 

[PhotoDave219]

So much arguing. Some chocolate, some graham cracker, some marshmello and a giant campfire would make everyone happier.....

 

[PhotoDave219]

If we're using Youtube hits as proof of "popularity" might as well replace every WS act with cats.

I refer to my DeBussy joke.

 

[CeciliaKy]

BTW I will be at the Friday 9/26/2014 performances of Off Kilter for most if not all of the day, If anyone wants to come by and say hi, please feel free!!!!View attachment 64083 Marie

darn it! we'll be there the weekend prior ... hard to believe it's been a million years ago since our paths briefly crossed in Indianapolis. LOL

 

[DisUniversal]

I don't think I failed, I think I've shown that Youtube views can be accumulated for a variety of things. Let's try this another way, what were the two acts you were comparing using Youtube? Adventurers Club and what else?

Again, you need to be making an apples to apples comparison which requires more common sense than lets say...comparing a band to a cat video. I wasn't comparing Adventurer's Club to anything, that was another poster.

 

[wannabeBelle]

darn it! we'll be there the weekend prior ... hard to believe it's been a million years ago since our paths briefly crossed in Indianapolis. LOL

When will you be around until?? I might be in soon enough to catch you. Marie

 

[Gabe1]

One could blame the cutting of traditions training and overuse of College Program kids ... as to the root cause that affects guests, which is the reason why this view is a bit to common with guests.

Traditions and CP's are the root cause for the entertainers being cut??? That is a big stretch of a rubberband.

I think what some people fail to realize is that it's not the fact the Disney fired people with over 20 years of employment with them, it's that it was done unceremoniously - no thanks for working for the company for over 20 years and no offer of another position and the reasons are deeper than just revamping an entertainment show.

Previously the entertainers that had been in groups that were ended for one reason or another had been offered new roles. For example - Frankie and the West End Boys may have gotten the boot but at that time Disney understood that their employees were worthy of treating right. They offered them either severance packages or other positions within the company. Some took the severance and some took the positions but they had a choice.

This time they found out the same time it was released online. They did not get anything to thank them for their service, they did not get the option of taking a different role within the company. Shame on them I guess for thinking that Disney would treat them they way Disney had treated them in the past.

If anyone thinks this wasn't due to budget cuts, you really need to get your head out of your a$$. They started cutting budgets in entertainment slowly and yes, maybe Off Kilter should have seen it coming when the fiddle player was brought in as a replacement for half of the bagpipers shows because he could be paid less. Or when the bump in salary for the fiddle player caused them to fire the keyboard player (short notice and again unceremoniously).

Budget cuts are the reason these long time Disney employees were not offered other roles. They spent a lot of money elsewhere (* cough* MDE *cough*) and decided to make cuts.

The issue for some of us is personal, yes we are personally attached and don't want to see our friends unemployed knowing that they have families to care for at home. We also would have liked to know that Disney at least said SOMETHING about being a loyal employee since before they could legally buy a beer!

That's not what people should be concerned about though. As Disney fans you should be concerned that Disney used to treat entertaining their guests as part of the "show". They now consider it a nuisance. Disney does not want to entertain you, they want to shuffle you from attraction to gift shop to restaurant. The attractions get you in the gates, the gift shops and restaurants make them money and the entertainment sucks your time that you could be spent shopping.

Disney is cutting back on spending money on things that make guests happy and create a memorable experience because of cost. Is it the right move business wise? Who knows - maybe they will find themselves rolling in dough because people don't realize that they can fire 5 higher paid performers with a huge following and replace them with two at a much lower wage and pretend this is an "enhancement".

The fact is - that is not how Disney used to do things. Disney used to celebrate long term Cast Members, they are now considered expensive and easily replaced (by Disney standards - not by mine). If you have over 10 years service and have been bumped to a new salary you are a ticking time bomb with Disney.

I think I am the saddest over Off Kilter. I remember bump'n up an old thread to ask about the release of the first Kilter member. To pursue other interests my tushie! When Disney brought down the entire Adventurers Club the writing was on the wall for the entertainment staff. A friend of mine lost his job swiftly at the Studios about this time last year. Then the re-applying for the Lion King at AK another way to move some off the payroll. We have a friend that survived that one. Dyson was another abrupt toss.

I spoke with my DS and his take on it down there is some are the yearly outings that have been happening for a while and all entertainers know it is possible. Other like Kilter are two fold, the dollar amount yes, but also the following. While the followings are great for the groups Disney has a different perspective similar to The Adventurers decision. The Locals and the CM staff themselves. When an entertainment venue becomes more of a hangout for locals and CMs then for the guests visiting WDW. DL has also begun to address some of the issues that bottleneck their parks.

Oh that you totally exists. And it's morally wrong. And it's reprehensible.

To sit back and replace people so you can make a bigger profit, it's just disgusting. It's going on in the private sector for year after year after year for like the past 15 years now. All for the sake of just making more money. It's disgusting.

I can't say I don't agree with you but we all share some blame in what is the norm in the private sector. With our own purchasing power we put our own people out of work making the work force disposable. As just an example many of us buy Apple products knowing full well the conditions these workers endure so we can buy phones and tablets cheaper and the company can make a higher profit. We look at Detroit and what was once a vibrant industry trying to be competitive with imports that are manufactured at a lower labor cost. We import steel to manufacture autos here and let our steel mills shutter. Guests of WDW buy globs of stuff, do we look where they are manufactured for a higher profit margin? How about the labels in our clothes, where are they manufactured?
Our pets are eating products where more than half are manufactured anywhere but here.

This country went on an Union busting bonanza about 15 years ago and look at what happened to employees and benefits since then, even in the jobs that were not union since unions set the bar for salaries and benefits. Look at what happened to health care costs in that same 15 years.

It isn't just our special cast members at WDW, it is how we all contribute by playing into the profit ratios of the private sector. By the volume of cars I see at Ikea it does explain why the middle class has shrunk. We can all be disappointed in Disney and act indignant but how many of us would actually protest by not patronizing their parks? My guess is very few.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I can't say I don't agree with you but we all share some blame in what is the norm in the private sector. With our own purchasing power we put our own people out of work making the work force disposable. As just an example many of us buy Apple products knowing full well the conditions these workers endure so we can buy phones and tablets cheaper and the company can make a higher profit. We look at Detroit and what was once a vibrant industry trying to be competitive with imports that are manufactured at a lower labor cost. We import steel to manufacture autos here and let our steel mills shutter. Guests of WDW buy globs of stuff, do we look where they are manufactured for a higher profit margin? How about the labels in our clothes, where are they manufactured?
Our pets are eating products where more than half are manufactured anywhere but here.

This country went on an Union busting bonanza about 15 years ago and look at what happened to employees and benefits since then, even in the jobs that were not union since unions set the bar for salaries and benefits. Look at what happened to health care costs in that same 15 years.

It isn't just our special cast members at WDW, it is how we all contribute by playing into the profit ratios of the private sector. By the volume of cars I see at Ikea it does explain why the middle class has shrunk. We can all be disappointed in Disney and act indignant but how many of us would actually protest by not patronizing their parks? My guess is very few.

Yes, well again Disney has always cast itself as different. Plus, just because its the industry norm doesn't make it right. Someone has to make a stand.

 

[Gabe1]

Yes, well again Disney has always cast itself as different. Plus, just because its the industry norm doesn't make it right. Someone has to make a stand.

I'm half with ya. Disney did cast itself as different. Their own actions have made them more Wall Street than different over the last 15 years. It is guests that pretend Disney is different and not about the stockholders.

Indeed it would be nice if we all made a stand. Not likely. I will step foot in the Disney Parks this year once again. I'm not likely to make that stand. Guilty! Will it be you? Will you no longer enter the Disney parks? As long as we keep going Disney has nothing to loose.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I'm half with ya. Disney did cast itself as different. Their own actions have made them more Wall Street than different over the last 15 years. It is guests that pretend Disney is different and not about the stockholders.

Indeed it would be nice if we all made a stand. Not likely. I will step foot in the Disney Parks this year once again. I'm not likely to make that stand. Guilty! Will it be you? Will you no longer enter the Disney parks? As long as we keep going Disney has nothing to loose.

Once this annual pass expires.... I will likely stop going.

Better places in the world I want to see.

 

[Gabe1]

Once this annual pass expires.... I will likely stop going.

Better places in the world I want to see.

That made me smile. I know what you are saying yet it does come off as you might stop going but for now despite the outrage of the entertainers being slashed you will keep going until the AP expires. Makes us both useless in standing up in solidarity for the slashed entertainers. We're not really going to take that stand for these entertainers. I'm not being judgmental, it is human nature, we get ourselves all worked up and yet we still partake and the private sector continues on as usual.

 

[PhotoDave219]

That made me smile. I know what you are saying yet it does come off as you might stop going but for now despite the outrage of the entertainers being slashed you will keep going until the AP expires. Makes us both useless in standing up in solidarity for the slashed entertainers. We're not really going to take that stand for these entertainers. I'm not being judgmental, it is human nature, we get ourselves all worked up and yet we still partake and the private sector continues on as usual.

Frustrates the hell out of me. Mostly because there's plenty of private sector companies who choose not to behave this way.