EPCOT Entertainment cuts

Fractal514

Well-Known Member
I have a question. What happens now to these performers? Are they fired? I think that's the part the annoys me. It saddens me to see acts go because they become a tradition. Is like saying the Dapper Dans are going to get cut. I understand they want to keep things fresh but they can still do that without letting people go. So anyone know are these people now jobless?

Part of being a performer is a lack of job security, that's true regardless of whether or not your employer is Walt Disney World, a Broadway production, or a movie studio. Acts come and go and Off-Kilter had a fairly long run, I'm sure they won't have trouble find gigs elsewhere. In fact, a month's notice is relatively generous, lots of performers find out they are out of a job the next day.

I must say I don't understand the comparisons folks are making between Off-Kilter and various other attractions and performers. Comparing Off-Kilter to the Dapper Dans just isn't a good argument, the Dapper Dans really ARE a part of Disney History and perform in a land that is supposed to be frozen in time and a callback to a by-gone era, Off-Kilter is certainly none of that. I'm not saying they aren't good, but they really aren't a Disney tradition or a classic attraction. No doubt they have their fans and are certainly a tradition for some, but let's keep a little perspective here.
 

CDavid

Well-Known Member
They do not consider it because it does not exist. I feel very confident in saying that the number of folks who will stop going to Epcot because of the acts departing is equal or less than the number of folks who will visit to see the new acts and mostly amounts to friends, family, and die-hard friends of the acts themselves and NOT the random/average park goer. Honestly, the folks in this thread are likely the most angered over this change (who aren't directly affected) and how many people here are planning to cancel a trip because of it? Not just willing to say they are in a forum thread, but actually going to cancel?

You're missing the point. People (generally) don't visit theme parks for any one specific element, but rather the total experience of all attractions and entertainment (and shopping, dining, etc.) in the park. You can (generally) remove any one experience - even major attractions - without more than a negligible (if any) decline in attendance. The loss off a headline attraction makes more of a difference, but even then (with the exception of parks (Animal Kingdom) where there is such a dearth of attractions that there is nothing to really pick up the slack) guests aren't likely to start cancelling trips.

But Epcot isn't losing one element; It is losing several - but far more critically, the park's experiences have already been cut to the bone. Remember the Lights of Winter? Neither Off-Kilter nor Wonders of Life, for instance, matter as much in isolation, but as part of the 'whole' park experience, it does. Replacement entertainment helps, but it likely won't start right away, and are an unknown element; The outgoing acts are well-liked, and Disney has a poor track record when it comes to replacing park attractions and experiences.

Epcot has already been compromised, cheapened, and dumbed-down to levels we would never have thought possible for what was once a special park. This isn't just about the loss of Off-Kilter and the other acts, but rather the bigger picture of why and how such decisions are made.

Those of us on this forum seem to always forget that we are a tiny, tiny minority. Most of the folks, a vast, vast majority, won't notice nor care about the entertainment changes. It's this way really with just about most of the stuff we wail and moan about- hub redesign, entertainment cuts, refillable mugs, store closures etc. They only notice the big stuff- new attractions and lands. I love our passion for all of this but 99% don't notice, care.

While most visitors to Walt Disney World will not be aware of such changes prior to their actually being in the parks, once there don't think all the little cuts and compromises to the experience go completely unnoticed. Many people will not quite be able "to put their finger on" what's wrong or what is missing, but they do not miss the overall impression of a cheapened experience. Combine that with rapidly increased prices, and the impression guests take away from a WDW vacation is nothing like what it once was. That will come back to haunt The Walt Disney Company soon enough.

I DO think that refreshing and changing out the performance acts is the easiest and cheapest way they can contribute to keeping Epcot feeling fresh.

That, in a nutshell, is exactly the problem. Disney, as usual, takes the easiest and cheapest way out to try and keep a stale park looking 'fresher' than it really is.
 

Mac4life30

Member
I think what im trying to say is you become accustomed to knowing they will be there. Like I know the trolley show will be at MK in the mornings. I look forward to seeing them. Same way others look forward to Off Kilter. Especially when they been there that long. They are apart of the Disney Family and to see a family member tossed like they are trash hurt me. So really my issue here its Disneys ability to just cut/axe and let go without any remorse or care.
 

Texas84

Well-Known Member
BR gets bigger crowds than OK during Drunkytown events. I will miss them though. They played at my first WDW half marathon. Forgot what mile that was.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
You are probably correct. Personally the lumberjack thing is a little tired but honestly - Disney doesn't want to educate on the nations as they are today they want easily recognized and marketable stereotypes.

I am so sad to see Off Kilter leave but from the day they started (and trust me I was there) people wondered why they weren't in the UK pavilion if they were Scottish. The culture is still alive and well in Nova Scotia (says this fiddle playing, highland dancer) but it confused people who actually put an iota of thought into it. For anyone that did ask it was a pleasure to explain where the Scottish/Canadian heritage comes from and a little education on your vacation can't be that bad.

Just to be clear: Having a band perform allows people to learn about Scottish/Canadian heritage in Canada, but having a lumberjack show allows for no opportunity for guests at Epcot to learn anything about Canadian culture. Is that right?

I just want to make sure, because it seems like a pretty convoluted premise.
 

fltink

Active Member
Just interjecting another opinion on the "positive" side. While I too will miss these acts, things do have to change sometimes and I am looking forward to seeing what's coming. I am very happy to hear that there IS something on the horizon and these acts aren't just being cut with no plans to fill in the gaps. I'm taking the wait and see approach before I gripe about it, I guess.
 

wannabeBelle

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I think what im trying to say is you become accustomed to knowing they will be there. Like I know the trolley show will be at MK in the mornings. I look forward to seeing them. Same way others look forward to Off Kilter. Especially when they been there that long. They are apart of the Disney Family and to see a family member tossed like they are trash hurt me. So really my issue here its Disneys ability to just cut/axe and let go without any remorse or care.
To be fair, I haven't personally spoken to any of the Off Kilter regulars, Jamie, Mark, Randy, Scott or Jason as of now. Chances are I wont see them in person until far closer to their ending date. I don't know what was said to them, if any accommodations such as a severance package or other employment within the company was made available to them, or any other offers. From what I have seen, I am thinking probably nothing but I can't be certain of that. I was listening to one of their songs "Dark Island", which is sung by Jamie and started to tear up at the loss of not only several very talented musicians but guys who I am friendly with as well. I have spent a lot of time by that stage area and will miss the jokes, antics and camaraderie that has always been a hallmark of their performances. I agree with a lot of the comments here on suspected cost cutting and keeping EPCOT fresh, but this particular one is a bit more personal to me. Marie
 

pikkurtooker

New Member
I have just heard from several very reliable sources that Off Kilter, The Fife & Drum Corp and Mo' Rockin' are all being terminated as of September 27th. That is the date of the final performances for all three acts. I personally am sad beyond words. Off Kilter has been a staple for me for many years. I have heard that they are looking to replace them with more "traditional" entertainment for the future. Thoughts, opinions?? Marie
What they REALLY need to cut is Robert Iger, Disney's CEO! Then replace him with someone who believes ENTERTAINMENT trumps shopping at WDW. I'm sad for the Cast Members who could lose their jobs because of these insane cuts.
 

DisUniversal

Well-Known Member
Just interjecting another opinion on the "positive" side. While I too will miss these acts, things do have to change sometimes and I am looking forward to seeing what's coming. I am very happy to hear that there IS something on the horizon and these acts aren't just being cut with no plans to fill in the gaps. I'm taking the wait and see approach before I gripe about it, I guess.
Ten years ago I may have agreed. Now it's actually possible to plan ahead for the disappointment...and planning ahead is very Disney-like.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
To be fair, I haven't personally spoken to any of the Off Kilter regulars, Jamie, Mark, Randy, Scott or Jason as of now. Chances are I wont see them in person until far closer to their ending date. I don't know what was said to them, if any accommodations such as a severance package or other employment within the company was made available to them, or any other offers. From what I have seen, I am thinking probably nothing but I can't be certain of that. I was listening to one of their songs "Dark Island", which is sung by Jamie and started to tear up at the loss of not only several very talented musicians but guys who I am friendly with as well. I have spent a lot of time by that stage area and will miss the jokes, antics and camaraderie that has always been a hallmark of their performances. I agree with a lot of the comments here on suspected cost cutting and keeping EPCOT fresh, but this particular one is a bit more personal to me. Marie
My wife made a good point yesterday when we were discussing this. She said even though we dont always stop to watch the show, its the ambience that Off Kilter has created over the years that really livens up the pavilion. She reminded me how many times we walk by the stage while sipping an ice cold Labatt and begin to bob our heads to the music and dance while strolling our way through the crowd who is clapping and stomping along to the beat. Or when crossing over the bridge from France Pavilion into England and you can hear the band playing has become one of those familiar sounds and its those magical moments that you take for granted until its gone.

I cant imagine a lumberjack show providing the same effect.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Just to be clear: Having a band perform allows people to learn about Scottish/Canadian heritage in Canada, but having a lumberjack show allows for no opportunity for guests at Epcot to learn anything about Canadian culture. Is that right?

I just want to make sure, because it seems like a pretty convoluted premise.

A celtic-influenced rock show has at least some relevancy to modern Canadian culture, even if it's confined to the Maratime provinces. Lumberjacks mean jack to anyone who lives in hipstery Vancouver or condo crowded Toronto.

Mounties, however cliched, are at least reocgnizeable as and relevant to Canada. However, there's not much you could do with them. A reproduction of The Musical Ride would be a tasteful cultural addition to the park, but too expensive for Disney to do (it's a horse show).

Of course, Disney could always have a Celine Dion tribute concert, but that may be more Vegas than Montreal. ;)
 

Fractal514

Well-Known Member
You're missing the point...
...
That, in a nutshell, is exactly the problem. Disney, as usual, takes the easiest and cheapest way out to try and keep a stale park looking 'fresher' than it really is.

I'm sorry, but I don't think that I am. Disney is NOT just cutting, they are replacing. Some of what they are cutting is beloved and will be miss, some is not as good (all of this being opinion of course). Some of what they are bringing in sounds exciting, some sounds lame (again, opinion). But, in the end, they aren't actually cutting what is offered to the public, just changing what it is. Now, I understand all of the arguments about changing things that aren't broken when they should be changing things that are, and the posts about how this is just a callous cash cutting coup by Disney execs greedy to pinch pennies where-ere they can, but honestly, it sounds to me like it's just time to change out the acts and freshen up that aspect of the park. Woven in as part of a much large narrative, yes, I can see why folks are reacting negatively, but that narrative involves a bit of storytelling and guess-work that folks here are providing in order to tell the story they want to tell. Taken on it's own, it's a interesting story that might be a good thing for the parks, and is sad for fans of specific performers who are cut.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
What they REALLY need to cut is Robert Iger, Disney's CEO! Then replace him with someone who believes ENTERTAINMENT trumps shopping at WDW. I'm sad for the Cast Members who could lose their jobs because of these insane cuts.

In the spirit of Disney's current business model, you could probably find someone to do a similar job as Iger at a much cheaper price.
 

Fractal514

Well-Known Member
My wife made a good point yesterday when we were discussing this. She said even though we dont always stop to watch the show, its the ambience that Off Kilter has created over the years that really livens up the pavilion. She reminded me how many times we walk by the stage while sipping an ice cold Labatt and begin to bob our heads to the music and dance while strolling our way through the crowd who is clapping and stomping along to the beat. Or when crossing over the bridge from France Pavilion into England and you can hear the band playing has become one of those familiar sounds and its those magical moments that you take for granted until its gone.

I cant imagine a lumberjack show providing the same effect.

But, I'm sure someone else can. I get exactly what you are saying and think that you can apply that same logic to ANY of the World Showcase entertainments, but new stuff is coming that might be just as good. I really hate that I have to be an apologist here, but I just don't seem the doom and gloom. Now, let's talk about all the supposed rides and expansions that are coming, but that we won't see for 10 years, and I'll go to the dark side real quick.
 

Fractal514

Well-Known Member
Name three things in World Showcase as iconic as Off-Kilter or the World Showcase Players.

They may not be the HM of EPCOT, but there damn sure equivalent to the PeopleMover.

The chair acrobats in France, the Voices of Liberty, and the Taiko Drummers (which, I love). Now if you're talking about in general and not just performers, I'd list about a dozen or so things.

This is opinion, not right or wrong, and maybe for YOU Off-Kilter is this huge iconic thing, but I don't think you can make that assumption for the general Disney park attendee.
 

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