Epcot Center/Buena Vista Drive Interchange Project

danlb_2000

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Original Poster
A permit was filed with the South Florida Water Management District for an element of a large project that will make significant changes to the intersection of Epcot Center Drive and Buena Vista Drive. The permit describes the overall project...

"Reedy Creek Improvement District (RCID) has proposed to make significant improvements to the existing interchange of Epcot Center Drive and Buena Vista Drive. The proposed project will reconfigure the interchange, modifying several of the ramps connecting the two roadways. The improvements to Epcot Center Drive will extend from north of Disney Vacation Club Way to just north of the Epcot Center Drive/SR 400 (I-4) Interchange. Epcot Center Drive will be widened from a six lane divided rural facility to a 10 lane divided rural roadway, with the addition of two auxiliary lanes. Improvements along Buena Vista Drive will extend from west of Chelonia Parkway to east of Bonnet Creek Parkway and will tie to the BVD Widening Project that is currently under construction. Buena Vista Drive will be widened to provide for future bus lanes in the median. The proposed improvements include the replacement of the Buena Vista Drive Bridge and widening of existing westbound Epcot Center Drive Bridge over the C-1 Canal. The widening of the eastbound Epcot Center Drive Bridge will be constructed as part of the Eastbound Epcot Center Drive Widening Project which was separated from the main Interchange Project and advanced in order to allow for facilitated maintenance of traffic and coordination with the Florida Department of Transportation."

This permit is specifically for the replacement of the Buena Vista Dr bridge over Bonnet Creek...

Capture.JPG
 
halltd

halltd

Well-Known Member
I love when you post all these permits, btw! Thanks!

It would be an interesting study to see how much money they're spending on road and parking infrastructure upgrades right now and compare it to what could have been done with the same amount of money for mass transit projects other than bus upgrades. I don't know the results, just saying it would be an interesting study.

The road network at Disney has expanded and changed exponentially since the park opened in 1971, but the mass transit system has unfortunately stayed basically the same (with the exception of the Epcot monorail link). I'm also not counting buses because up until the current bus lane addition by Disney Springs, they've shared the same roads as all the cars.

It's probably the dreamer in me talking, but I was always intrigued by the idea of a high-speed rail link from the airport to Disney and an expanded monorail, light rail, people mover network on property that reduced majorly the reliance on cars on property. It could have been a good model for the US, actually. But, I digress.

Cool highway interchange expansion, though! ;)
 
C

cmoliver68

Active Member
halltd said:
I love when you post all these permits, btw! Thanks!

It would be an interesting study to see how much money they're spending on road and parking infrastructure upgrades right now and compare it to what could have been done with the same amount of money for mass transit projects other than bus upgrades. I don't know the results, just saying it would be an interesting study.

The road network at Disney has expanded and changed exponentially since the park opened in 1971, but the mass transit system has unfortunately stayed basically the same (with the exception of the Epcot monorail link). I'm also not counting buses because up until the current bus lane addition by Disney Springs, they've shared the same roads as all the cars.

It's probably the dreamer in me talking, but I was always intrigued by the idea of a high-speed rail link from the airport to Disney and an expanded monorail, light rail, people mover network on property that reduced majorly the reliance on cars on property. It could have been a good model for the US, actually. But, I digress.

Cool highway interchange expansion, though! ;)
Click to expand...
The high speed rail should have happened and there was talk of a monorail connection to the high speed rail station, but we have a "brilliant" governor that put an end to that.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
danlb_2000 said:
A permit was filed with the South Florida Water Management District for an element of a large project that will make significant changes to the intersection of Epcot Center Drive and Buena Vista Drive. The permit describes the overall project...

"Reedy Creek Improvement District (RCID) has proposed to make significant improvements to the existing interchange of Epcot Center Drive and Buena Vista Drive. The proposed project will reconfigure the interchange, modifying several of the ramps connecting the two roadways. The improvements to Epcot Center Drive will extend from north of Disney Vacation Club Way to just north of the Epcot Center Drive/SR 400 (I-4) Interchange. Epcot Center Drive will be widened from a six lane divided rural facility to a 10 lane divided rural roadway, with the addition of two auxiliary lanes. Improvements along Buena Vista Drive will extend from west of Chelonia Parkway to east of Bonnet Creek Parkway and will tie to the BVD Widening Project that is currently under construction. Buena Vista Drive will be widened to provide for future bus lanes in the median. The proposed improvements include the replacement of the Buena Vista Drive Bridge and widening of existing westbound Epcot Center Drive Bridge over the C-1 Canal. The widening of the eastbound Epcot Center Drive Bridge will be constructed as part of the Eastbound Epcot Center Drive Widening Project which was separated from the main Interchange Project and advanced in order to allow for facilitated maintenance of traffic and coordination with the Florida Department of Transportation."

This permit is specifically for the replacement of the Buena Vista Dr bridge over Bonnet Creek...

View attachment 90576
Click to expand...

Is there a timetable or anything on when te permit expires?
 
halltd

halltd

Well-Known Member
cmoliver68 said:
The high speed rail should have happened and there was talk of a monorail connection to the high speed rail station, but we have a "brilliant" governor that put an end to that.
Click to expand...
Disney doesn't wait for anyone else to build roads. They shouldn't have waited for the rail project either. Even though the governor put a stop to the public rail, All Aboard is still doing it on their own...which I'm super excited for! I'm sure if they had really wanted to, Disney could have built a train to the airport on their own...or with strategic partners. Yes, yes, I know...it costs money and would be difficult. D@mn stockholders.

I know when I used to fly in to visit Disney, I would have much rather taken a sleek train than the buses. I've never had a very "Disney experience" with the Mears people driving the Magical Express. Thankfully I no longer have to take it. That high-speed direct rail link from London to Disneyland Paris, though?? OMG LOVE!! :)
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
cmoliver68 said:
The high speed rail should have happened and there was talk of a monorail connection to the high speed rail station, but we have a "brilliant" governor that put an end to that.
Click to expand...
The high speed rail was a dumb idea that nobody was going to use. Disney only promised space for a station, not a monorail connection. Magical Express was also going to continue. The ridiculous price tag to have a high speed train that barely ever went to such speeds would have made ticket prices far and away above anything else available. Disney's problems are their own making and their falling into the same traps that see sprawl continue despite people acknowledging the destructive nature of suburbanization.
 
Disneyhead'71

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
I'm just waiting on the gaggle of usual suspects to show up and proclaim that this is the best thing EVE-AHH! Busses are really the only option. And Disney's busses are extra magical anyway.
 
CaptainAmerica

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Disneyhead'71 said:
I'm just waiting on the gaggle of usual suspects to show up and proclaim that this is the best thing EVE-AHH! Busses are really the only option. And Disney's busses are extra magical anyway.
Click to expand...
Busses ARE the only (realistic) option. A monorail (or any rail) is a fine way to connect three resorts and two parks. But it's no way to connect 50+ unique endpoints.

No, they're not magical busses. But they're clean, efficient, and flexible to variable demand.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
CaptainAmerica said:
Busses ARE the only (realistic) option. A monorail (or any rail) is a fine way to connect three resorts and two parks. But it's no way to connect 50+ unique endpoints.

No, they're not magical busses. But they're clean, efficient, and flexible to variable demand.
Click to expand...
It would have worked just fine if sprawl did not over take a place that was supposed to do things differently.
 
ToTBellHop

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
CaptainAmerica said:
Busses ARE the only (realistic) option. A monorail (or any rail) is a fine way to connect three resorts and two parks. But it's no way to connect 50+ unique endpoints.

No, they're not magical busses. But they're clean, efficient, and flexible to variable demand.
Click to expand...
Well, one could envision other transport methods, but not at a 44-year old property as you'd practically have to shut all of WDW down for constructing such a mass transit network. Now if they wanted to design Shanghai DL ahead to one day have 3 or 4 parks and 20 resorts, the sky is the limit. An effective train system could be envisioned, for example. I can't see Disney turning to a subway, although it'd be efficient. At WDW, buses are the only reasonable transportation strategy right now. And from the expansions to bus loops going on, it seems Disney plans to stick with buses. As much as we all love the monorail, we would love it less if you had to make 4 transfers to get to DAK.
 
Disneyhead'71

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
CaptainAmerica said:
Busses ARE the only (realistic) option. A monorail (or any rail) is a fine way to connect three resorts and two parks. But it's no way to connect 50+ unique endpoints.

No, they're not magical busses. But they're clean, efficient, and flexible to variable demand.
Click to expand...
You are right that "A" monorail is not the answer. Although a monorail expansion would certainly be part of a solution along with light rail, peoplemovers, and moving sidewalks.

Or 10 lane highways and city busses.

The brain trust driving the place are problem solvers (and not particularly creative ones) not dreamers. The problem with being driven by problem solvers is that they are always solving the problems they create because they are not dreamers. They are always one step behind.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Disneyhead'71 said:
I'm just waiting on the gaggle of usual suspects to show up and proclaim that this is the best thing EVE-AHH! Busses are really the only option. And Disney's busses are extra magical anyway.
Click to expand...

At least theyre smart enough to put "bus-only" lanes on BVD. Its just a clusterduck otherwise.

I'd love an interconnected monorail system but jeez... i dont want to think about how much that would cost. $500B? $1T? Even a Red Car (streetcar) line would be expensive as hell, but more practical then a monorail.

Just thinking out loud here, what if they did the trolly-car route in the bus only lanes? Wouldnt be any different than any other street car in Philly or SF. Much cheaper than a monorail expansion.

Numberswise..... in 2013, TriMet (in Oregon) authorized $18m to buy 40 of the low-floor 30' diesel bus, same model that Disney operates. Works out to $465k/bus. Probably closer to a half-million per bus for the mouse because they don't buy 40 at a time... more like 10.

Portland has streetcars. The initial cost for that was $12.9M/mile, including trams. (See http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/101222_redhook_sc_casestudies.pdf for a lot of detailed info on the feasibility). Seems like it could be a reasonable addition to create a multi-modal solution to the insane transportation problem WDW has.

(See Bob, thats what happens when you get 30% growth over 10 years and you ignore infrastructure)
 
NickC

NickC

Well-Known Member
PhotoDave219 said:
At least theyre smart enough to put "bus-only" lanes on BVD. Its just a clusterduck otherwise.

I'd love an interconnected monorail system but jeez... i dont want to think about how much that would cost. $500B? $1T? Even a Red Car (streetcar) line would be expensive as hell, but more practical then a monorail.

Just thinking out loud here, what if they did the trolly-car route in the bus only lanes? Wouldnt be any different than any other street car in Philly or SF. Much cheaper than a monorail expansion.

Numberswise..... in 2013, TriMet (in Oregon) authorized $18m to buy 40 of the low-floor 30' diesel bus, same model that Disney operates. Works out to $465k/bus. Probably closer to a half-million per bus for the mouse because they don't buy 40 at a time... more like 10.

Portland has streetcars. The initial cost for that was $12.9M/mile, including trams. (See http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/101222_redhook_sc_casestudies.pdf for a lot of detailed info on the feasibility). Seems like it could be a reasonable addition to create a multi-modal solution to the insane transportation problem WDW has.

(See Bob, thats what happens when you get 30% growth over 10 years and you ignore infrastructure)
Click to expand...


Not sure if you ever saw this old post, but at one time in the early 90's, Disney was seriously considering building a trolley system:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/early-90s-light-rail-trolley-system-proposal-for-wdw.877547/
 
Progress.City

Progress.City

Well-Known Member
danlb_2000 said:
Epcot Center Drive will be widened from a six lane divided rural facility to a 10 lane divided rural roadway
Click to expand...
If ten lanes of traffic is considered rural, I'd hate to see what an urban road has!
danlb_2000 said:
Buena Vista Drive will be widened to provide for future bus lanes in the median.
Click to expand...
See, buses are the future, not monorails. And whoever still thinks there's secret buried footers is probably on drugs and needs to have their head(s) examined!
 
Progress.City

Progress.City

Well-Known Member
NickC said:
Not sure if you ever saw this old post, but at one time in the early 90's, Disney was seriously considering building a trolley system:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/early-90s-light-rail-trolley-system-proposal-for-wdw.877547/
Click to expand...
They went as far as the EIS (Environmental Impact Studies), engineering, and even had the permits pulled. It is still unknown till this day why they never began construction. There were also multiple plans to extend the monorail and that never happened either, obviously.
 

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