Epcot Center/Buena Vista Drive Interchange Project

[Progress.City]

Where light rail (streetcar, elevated, etc.) fails compared to monorail is when it is (properly) part of the 'show' and overall presentation within a resort district (Walt Disney World). Elevated rail could have been built in place of the monorail in 1971 - it wasn't, and for very good reason. That is not to say that such modes could not have a place in WDW transportation, of course.



Modern catenary is not overly visually obtrusive, and even less so for most streetcars. Third-rail manages to coexist safely with residential neighborhoods, but overhead power is preferable.

I don't think modern light rail systems were deployed yet in 1971. I believe they didn't catch on until the 80's.

In any case, I rode BART in San Francisco, a heavy rail system built in the early 70's and three light rail lines in California (two in LA and one in San Jose). BART was LOUD with screeching noises. All three light rail lines I rode were amazingly QUIET, came to to smooth and complete stop on a dime, and accelerated real fast. To be fair, I also rode the LA subway (heavy rail) and found it to be enjoyable as well. In Miami, we have Metrorail (an elevated electric heavy rail built in the '80's) and it shares the same loud squealing noise and jerkiness as BART.

 

[cmoliver68]

Nothing I can comment on at the mo.

Let's not forget about the closing of the speedway for "transportation improvements." It would seem that this would factor in some way to the "no comment."

 

[Progress.City]

Let's not forget about the closing of the speedway for "transportation improvements." It would seem that this would factor in some way to the "no comment."

I've thought about that but kept my lid shut.

 

[CDavid]

I don't think modern light rail systems were deployed yet in 1971. I believe they didn't catch on until the 80's.

Define modern. Indeed, the Electroliner did not debut until 1941 - 74 years ago.

 

[googilycub]

Define modern. Indeed, the Electroliner did not debut until 1941 - 74 years ago.

I would not call the Electroliner light rail, nor have I ever seen it referred to as such. Was it lighter than the older cars in use on the North Shore? Sure. However it was just an electric copy of what was in fashion on the railroads at the time with streamlining. An electric streamliner? Yes. Light rail? I don't think so.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I would not call the Electroliner light rail, nor have I ever seen it referred to as such. Was it lighter than the older cars in use on the North Shore? Sure. However it was just an electric copy of what was in fashion on the railroads at the time with streamlining. An electric streamliner? Yes. Light rail? I don't think so.

Light rail does not define weight, but passenger loads. The Electrolier also had the type of versatile route that is a big selling point for light rail systems.

 

[googilycub]

Light rail does not define weight, but passenger loads. The Electrolier also had the type of versatile route that is a big selling point for light rail systems.

One of the main definitions of light rail is that it is intra-urban transportation. Chicago to Milwaukee in 1941 was not intra-urban. It is a stretch to call that intra-urban now.

As defined by APTA (American Public Transportation Association):

"Light Rail is lightweight passenger rail cars operating singly (or in short, usually two-car, trains) on fixed rails in right-of-way that is not separated from other traffic for much of the way. Light rail vehicles are typically driven electrically with power being drawn from an overhead electric line via a trolley or a pantograph. Also known as "streetcar," "tramway," "trolley car."

Heavy Rail is high-speed, passenger rail cars operating singly or in trains of two or more cars on fixed rails in separate rights-of-way from which all other vehicular and foot traffic are excluded. Also known as "rapid rail," "subway," "elevated (railway)," or "metropolitan railway (metro)."

The North Shore Line, and the Electrolier that ran over it was by far the latter.

 

[flynnibus]

The monorail, or most any form of rail transportation, is indeed far more efficient at moving large numbers of passengers than buses. However, I don't think I have ever seen a monorail actually loaded to maximum capacity. Sixty people per car is the theoretical limit, but that means that each section of a car (two sections per car) must accommodate thirty persons - ten seated and twenty standing. That standee area is awfully tight and very little personal space; People are really going to have to be squeezed in to achieve that. Not sure I've personally witnessed more than 9 or 10 standees per section, which means the monorail is often not being loaded to absolute capacity, even during peak periods; People just naturally aren't going to pack themselves in so close (and then there are strollers and packages).

Has anyone here ever been in a monorail car with forty standees per car - twenty in each section, and all seats occupied?

An inherent advantage for rail is the load/unload. Being able to unload to one platform, load From the other, load many cars at once. This allows a high volume of people in a low dispatch time. You can pack a bus... But just like trying to pack a plane... Its slow. The more entrances and free space in the vehicle the more efficent you can move people in and out.

The fault is when people think a transport system should be just one thing.

 

[Master Yoda]

Here is light rail at grade level.

Here is an elevated light rail.

This is also light rail on grade which is why I really can't see Disney using anything but an elevated system.

 

[articos]

You don't need overhead catenary or electrified third rail.

 

[danlb_2000]

A permit was filed with the South Florida Water Management District to use the area below as staging area for the Epcot Center Drive interchange project. I post about this not because it's interesting, but in case someone notices the work going on there and jumps to the conclusion that's it's the start of a fifth gate.

 

[JWG]

All I heard was, "5th gate" - it's about time!

 

[MGMBoy]

All I heard was, "5th gate" - it's about time!

Wait! They're opening a fifth gate???

 

[PhotoDave219]

All I heard was, "5th gate" - it's about time!

Wait! They're opening a fifth gate???

Noooooooooooope.

 

[MGMBoy]

Noooooooooooope.

Awww... You're no fun. I was hoping to REALLY get the rumor mill raging by people who didn't read the entire post from @danlb_2000 .

 

[PhotoDave219]

Awww... You're no fun. I was hoping to REALLY get the rumor mill raging by people who didn't read the entire post from @danlb_2000 .

New traffic light at the MK toll plaza starts tomorrow tho...

 

[MGMBoy]

New traffic light at the MK toll plaza starts tomorrow tho...

I have a feeling THAT is going to be a steep learning curve. Especially for CMs who have driven through that intersection for years.

 

[dstrawn9889]

I have a feeling THAT is going to be a steep learning curve. Especially for CMs who have driven through that intersection for years.

easy fix, pay an black and white to sit with its lights on in the median, and draw attention to it. do that for three weeks and then discontinue.

 

[Monorail_Red_77]

oops, this post went on the wrong side of the internet.

If still interest see post here http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/bob-iger-at-wdw-now-bod-to-follow.900980/page-119

 

[MGMBoy]

easy fix, pay an black and white to sit with its lights on in the median, and draw attention to it. do that for three weeks and then discontinue.

Good point. Don't "they" say that it takes 20 days to either make or break a habit?