News 'Encanto' and 'Indiana Jones'-themed experiences at Animal Kingdom

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HOUSE OF MAGIC
Premium Member
Eh. I still think Dinos vs Indy is stretching that suspension of disbelief fabric a little too thin even for a themepark attraction. I get that there's a "book" but it still seems silly and contrived. I'd rather see the dinos placed elsewhere or just a better expanded Dinoland overall. If Indy must go to DAK, the forum suggested Quetzalcoatl Aztec god premise is a far better choice.
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
I'm beginning to wonder how much classic Disney theming accuracy really matters to modern fans anymore. (The fans that Disney is chasing after today) Yes, "legacy" fans look at every detail and we connect theming dots in a very meticulous way. We link ideas back to their creators, we look for hidden details that most don't ever see and we demand very high quality because we deeply understand Disney's core and it's past. (something that Disney seems to be running away from because it's "problematic" by today's new standards)

Anyhoo,..."Legacy fans" are dying and becoming less and less financially relevant. This means that Disney can relax it's theming standards moving forward. Disney knows it's FUTURE customers don't even think to ever ONCE look at those names on the Main Street shops. (Maybe 1 out of 1,000 people today even think to look at them...maybe less?)

What I'm saying is that Disney doesn't need to follow it's "old" theming rules any longer. Disney could put a Star Wars roller coaster in Animal Kingdom....99% of customers will think it's cool! Disney could put a Lion King dark ride in Epcot and 99% of their customers would love it. Disney could put ANY attraction anywhere they want and almost nobody (statistically) would ever THINK to question why it doesn't fit. Only "legacy fans" think that much....and we are slowly fading away.

The day's of Walt Disney, Marty Sklar, Tony Baxter, Bob Gurr,...etc...etc....will prolly never return. "Imagineering" has a different goal today than it once did. It's now about pandering to the lowest common social denominator and applying corporate synergy in the most financially economical and efficient way.

Throw out the expensive details that nobody notices anyway. Keep it as cheap to maintain and operate on a daily basis as humanly possible. Use projections as much as possible, limit Animatronics as much as you can and support "movie sales" as much as possible and remove anything that is NOT tied to a movie.

99% of Disney's FUTURE customer base doesn't give a damn about the EXPENSIVE theming and details that "legacy fans" (like many on this forum) care about. This is a reality.....and Disney knows this very well and they WILL adapt to those future customers perfectly.
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
I'm beginning to wonder how much classic Disney theming accuracy really matters to modern fans anymore. (The fans that Disney is chasing after today) Yes, "legacy" fans look at every detail and we connect theming dots in a very meticulous way. We link ideas back to their creators, we look for hidden details that most don't ever see and we demand very high quality because we deeply understand Disney's core and it's past. (something that Disney seems to be running away from because it's "problematic" by today's new standards)

Anyhoo,..."Legacy fans" are dying and becoming less and less financially relevant. This means that Disney can relax it's theming standards moving forward. Disney knows it's FUTURE customers don't even think to ever ONCE look at those names on the Main Street shops. (Maybe 1 out of 1,000 people today even think to look at them...maybe less?)

What I'm saying is that Disney doesn't need to follow it's "old" theming rules any longer. Disney could put a Star Wars roller coaster in Animal Kingdom....99% of customers will think it's cool! Disney could put a Lion King dark ride in Epcot and 99% of their customers would love it. Disney could put ANY attraction anywhere they want and almost nobody (statistically) would ever THINK to question why it doesn't fit. Only "legacy fans" think that much....and we are slowly fading away.

The day's of Walt Disney, Marty Sklar, Tony Baxter, Bob Gurr,...etc...etc....will prolly never return. "Imagineering" has a different goal today than it once did. It's now about pandering to the lowest common social denominator and applying corporate synergy in the most financially economical and efficient way.

Throw out the expensive details that nobody notices anyway. Keep it as cheap to maintain and operate on a daily basis as humanly possible. Use projections as much as possible, limit Animatronics as much as you can and support "movie sales" as much as possible and remove anything that is NOT tied to a movie.

99% of Disney's FUTURE customer base doesn't give a damn about the EXPENSIVE theming and details that "legacy fans" (like many on this forum) care about. This is a reality.....and Disney knows this very well and they WILL adapt to those future customers perfectly.
Unfortunately, what you said is true.
I follow a couple of Disney things on Facebook, and the gushing about bringing Indy to Animal Kingdom was unbroken (except by me) in the comments section.
Unfortunately it seems the vast majority of park goers don't get or care about any cohesion of lands, so why should Disney?
In another time - sure - Disney would do what should be done regardless of whether everyone got it or not.
But the old guard is gone.
Now, it's well... Indiana Jones has an aesthetic of old crumbly architecture and so does Animal Kingdom.
So, in it goes!
And the people applaud it.
Do I need to point out that what few animals there are in Indy are mostly presented in a negative light?
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I'm beginning to wonder how much classic Disney theming accuracy really matters to modern fans anymore. (The fans that Disney is chasing after today) Yes, "legacy" fans look at every detail and we connect theming dots in a very meticulous way. We link ideas back to their creators, we look for hidden details that most don't ever see and we demand very high quality because we deeply understand Disney's core and it's past. (something that Disney seems to be running away from because it's "problematic" by today's new standards)

Anyhoo,..."Legacy fans" are dying and becoming less and less financially relevant. This means that Disney can relax it's theming standards moving forward. Disney knows it's FUTURE customers don't even think to ever ONCE look at those names on the Main Street shops. (Maybe 1 out of 1,000 people today even think to look at them...maybe less?)

What I'm saying is that Disney doesn't need to follow it's "old" theming rules any longer. Disney could put a Star Wars roller coaster in Animal Kingdom....99% of customers will think it's cool! Disney could put a Lion King dark ride in Epcot and 99% of their customers would love it. Disney could put ANY attraction anywhere they want and almost nobody (statistically) would ever THINK to question why it doesn't fit. Only "legacy fans" think that much....and we are slowly fading away.

The day's of Walt Disney, Marty Sklar, Tony Baxter, Bob Gurr,...etc...etc....will prolly never return. "Imagineering" has a different goal today than it once did. It's now about pandering to the lowest common social denominator and applying corporate synergy in the most financially economical and efficient way.

Throw out the expensive details that nobody notices anyway. Keep it as cheap to maintain and operate on a daily basis as humanly possible. Use projections as much as possible, limit Animatronics as much as you can and support "movie sales" as much as possible and remove anything that is NOT tied to a movie.

99% of Disney's FUTURE customer base doesn't give a damn about the EXPENSIVE theming and details that "legacy fans" (like many on this forum) care about. This is a reality.....and Disney knows this very well and they WILL adapt to those future customers perfectly.
I don’t think it’s a question of “legacy” vs. “new” fans. There have always been, and will always be, a mixture of thematically more attentive and less attentive guests. A fan community like this forum is obviously going to include a much higher percentage of the former than the general population does.
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
I don’t think it’s a question of “legacy” vs. “new” fans. There have always been, and will always be, a mixture of thematically more attentive and less attentive guests. A fan community like this forum is obviously going to include a much higher percentage of the former than the general population does.
Yes, but I strongly believe that the majority of park goers in the 70's, 80's, and 90's got it and embraced it.
From the lands and their ride selection to the themeing of the on site hotels.
Now I believe far too many of them could care less.
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
Why do you strongly believe that? What makes you think guests today are different?
Much of it comes from the responses that I see on the Disney Facebook forums I'm a member of.
It's nearly universal, straight up worship for no matter how incongruous the ride, land etc. suggested is.
Yes, I know my informal sampling isn't necessarily indicative of park goers as a whole.
But I believe it at the very least reflects a trend that a large portion of park goers embrace.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Much of it comes from the responses that I see on the Disney Facebook forums I'm a member of.
It's nearly universal, straight up worship for no matter how incongruous the ride, land etc. suggested is.
Yes, I know my informal sampling isn't necessarily indicative of park goers as a whole.
But I believe it at the very least reflects a trend that a large portion of park goers embrace.
I don’t think one can extrapolate too much from comments on social media given that there is no real equivalent from before our present century with which to draw meaningful comparisons.
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
I don’t think one can take too much away from responses on social media given that there is no real equivalent from before our present century with which to make meaningful comparisons.
I understand that it's not a scientific survey, and much of it has to do with my general impressions.
But that's the impression I get of both guests, and Disney itself nowadays.
 

flyerjab

Well-Known Member
I'm beginning to wonder how much classic Disney theming accuracy really matters to modern fans anymore. (The fans that Disney is chasing after today) Yes, "legacy" fans look at every detail and we connect theming dots in a very meticulous way. We link ideas back to their creators, we look for hidden details that most don't ever see and we demand very high quality because we deeply understand Disney's core and it's past. (something that Disney seems to be running away from because it's "problematic" by today's new standards)

Anyhoo,..."Legacy fans" are dying and becoming less and less financially relevant. This means that Disney can relax it's theming standards moving forward. Disney knows it's FUTURE customers don't even think to ever ONCE look at those names on the Main Street shops. (Maybe 1 out of 1,000 people today even think to look at them...maybe less?)

What I'm saying is that Disney doesn't need to follow it's "old" theming rules any longer. Disney could put a Star Wars roller coaster in Animal Kingdom....99% of customers will think it's cool! Disney could put a Lion King dark ride in Epcot and 99% of their customers would love it. Disney could put ANY attraction anywhere they want and almost nobody (statistically) would ever THINK to question why it doesn't fit. Only "legacy fans" think that much....and we are slowly fading away.

The day's of Walt Disney, Marty Sklar, Tony Baxter, Bob Gurr,...etc...etc....will prolly never return. "Imagineering" has a different goal today than it once did. It's now about pandering to the lowest common social denominator and applying corporate synergy in the most financially economical and efficient way.

Throw out the expensive details that nobody notices anyway. Keep it as cheap to maintain and operate on a daily basis as humanly possible. Use projections as much as possible, limit Animatronics as much as you can and support "movie sales" as much as possible and remove anything that is NOT tied to a movie.

99% of Disney's FUTURE customer base doesn't give a damn about the EXPENSIVE theming and details that "legacy fans" (like many on this forum) care about. This is a reality.....and Disney knows this very well and they WILL adapt to those future customers perfectly.
I feel that as the world changes, so will institutions. Especially in the domestic parks, corporate demagoguery and fiscal norms will force change. I think it is a feckless argument to expect the younger generations to care about the insane level of theming that imagineers perfected in the past. In the 60s through the 90s, there wasn’t a lot to occupy yourself when standing in a queue. As a result, imagineers could take the “eye spy with my little eye” approach to design. Guests should be entertained and intrigued, so what better way to establish design guidelines than to create as immersive of experience as possible. The payoff was worth it because the people were engaged.

This is becoming less and less of the case as social media and internet can distract anyone at any moment. Instead of taking in detail in the queue for Expedition Everest, I now see people - especially younger people - staring at their phones. The kids are being trained through their early years to act this way. Kids have AirPods in all day long, so their own private distractions are both visual and auditory now. Disney can spend a zillion dollars on theming but if half of the audience is like “meh…what’s happening on TikTok or YouTube?”, and walk past all of the incredible theming, why should they spend that kind of money? To appease the zealot-type fans in chat rooms and rumors threads?

Disney can choose what type of corporation they want to be. If they are more financially driven than creatively driven, then that’s how it will be I suppose. Anyway, if the parks and experiences are raking in money, why would upper management be fretting over theming details and if parks should have more original content as opposed to brand-based attractions. Until thus strategy fails, expect no changes. Also, there are no rules with theming, only approaches. Imagineers don’t get thrown in jail beneath Main Street for not theming enough.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I understand that it's not a scientific survey, and much of it has to do with my general impressions.
But that's the impression I get of both guests, and Disney itself nowadays.
Fair enough. The only online Disney community I have any knowledge of is this one, so I’m not used to seeing the kinds of positive comments you’re referring to.
 

wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
I was surprised and disappointed that Toy Story Land does not have a proper gift shop. (I don’t count the hole in the wall that they shoved at the end of the Mania hallway.)
It shouldn't be a surprise about Toy Story Land not having a proper gift shop. I'm pointing early artwork of this land had stuff that Disney ended up not delivering and I recalled people claim it was due to Disney being cheap. I know Bob Chapek was the Chairman of Disney Parks and Resorts when Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge was being built.
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
I feel that as the world changes, so will institutions. Especially in the domestic parks, corporate demagoguery and fiscal norms will force change. I think it is a feckless argument to expect the younger generations to care about the insane level of theming that imagineers perfected in the past. In the 60s through the 90s, there wasn’t a lot to occupy yourself when standing in a queue. As a result, imagineers could take the “eye spy with my little eye” approach to design. Guests should be entertained and intrigued, so what better way to establish design guidelines than to create as immersive of experience as possible. The payoff was worth it because the people were engaged.

This is becoming less and less of the case as social media and internet can distract anyone at any moment. Instead of taking in detail in the queue for Expedition Everest, I now see people - especially younger people - staring at their phones. The kids are being trained through their early years to act this way. Kids have AirPods in all day long, so their own private distractions are both visual and auditory now. Disney can spend a zillion dollars on theming but if half of the audience is like “meh…what’s happening on TikTok or YouTube?”, and walk past all of the incredible theming, why should they spend that kind of money? To appease the zealot-type fans in chat rooms and rumors threads?

Disney can choose what type of corporation they want to be. If they are more financially driven than creatively driven, then that’s how it will be I suppose. Anyway, if the parks and experiences are raking in money, why would upper management be fretting over theming details and if parks should have more original content as opposed to brand-based attractions. Until thus strategy fails, expect no changes. Also, there are no rules with theming, only approaches. Imagineers don’t get thrown in jail beneath Main Street for not theming enough.
Expedition Everest was guided my an Imagineering master,...Joe Rhode. Joe Rhode was very much a student of the great Imagineers and he was a tireless keeper of that flame. I mean, his team literally went to Nepal and purchased boxes and boxes of REAL hand-made artifacts and trinkets from local people and installed them into the que! They WENT there to get the photographs and get the inspiration and "feeling" for the ride!!! And it SHOWS in the attraction. It "feels" right! THIS A MASTER CLASS IN AUTHENTICITY AND DETAIL!!

Today?...Imagineers go to a local "movie theater" to get the inspiration needed for the Disney movie attraction they are about to make. The days of making an ORIGINAL attraction that is "NOT" based on a Disney movie....are 100% gone. "Expedition Everest" is not based on a Disney movie. It stands 100% on it's OWN and is better than any "movie" ride because of that.

Honestly,...I feel that when Joe Rhode left?...well, yes...it broke my heart because I knew he was the LAST of the great Imagineer generation. For me, Joe Rhode leaving was like the death of the "original" Imagineering as I used to know it.

Honesty, (again)...Disney doesn't even need the Imagineering division any more. They might as well outsource and contract any of the several very capable companies out there to design and build Disney attractions from now on. What Disney has in-house today?....sorry..,..is nothing "special" any more.
 
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flyerjab

Well-Known Member
Expedition Everest was guided my an Imagineering master,...Joe Rhode. Joe Rhode was very much a student of the great Imagineers and he was a tireless keeper of that flame. I mean, his team literally went to Nepal and purchased boxes and boxes of REAL hand-made artifacts and trinkets from local people and installed them into the que! They WENT there to get the photographs and get the inspiration and "feeling" for the ride!!! And it SHOWS in the attraction. It "feels" right! THIS A MASTER CLASS IN AUTHENTICITY AND DETAIL!!

Today?...Imagineers go to a local "movie theater" to get the inspiration needed for the Disney movie attraction they are about to make. The days of making an ORIGINAL attraction that is "NOT" based on a Disney movie....are 100% gone. "Expedition Everest" is not based on a Disney movie. It stands 100% on it's OWN and is better than any "movie" ride because of that.

Honestly,...I feel that when Joe Rhode left?...well, yes...it broke my heart because I knew he was the LAST of the great Imagineer generation. For me, Joe Rhode leaving was like the death of the "original" Imagineering as I used to know it.

Honesty, (again)...Disney doesn't even need the Imagineering division any more. They might as well outsource and contract any of the several very capable companies out there to design and build Disney attractions from now on. What Disney has in-house today?....sorry..,..is nothing "special" any more.
I am not an engineer or artist by trade. But I agree that Rohde was the last great Imagineer. I had the pleasure of meeting him several times. Once in the club level Lounge at AKL. I introduced myself and my wife and he very kindly asked our reason for visiting. I told him we were there for Pandora passholder previews. We then ended up having a 20 minute discussion with him about our thoughts on Pandora over coffee. It was quite surreal as I have always held his work in high regard.

Who do we have now? Zach Ridley, king of textiles? I don’t know, I shouldn’t speak of someone I know nothing about I suppose. I just go with the flow these days. I know that I will enjoy the new hub and spine. And I can already tell that I will like JoW. And crossing my fingers that Luminous is better than Harmonious.
 
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Rhinocerous

Premium Member
It shouldn't be a surprise about Toy Story Land not having a proper gift shop. I'm pointing early artwork of this land had stuff that Disney ended up not delivering and I recalled people claim it was due to Disney being cheap. I know Bob Chapek was the Chairman of Disney Parks and Resorts when Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge was being built.
I was surprised because merch is such a profit driver for them. I figured a property like Toy Story they would especially want to capitalize on.
 

TheIceBaron

Well-Known Member
I’m actually a little surprised with Indy 5 bombing at the box office that they are still moving forward with bringing Indy to AK. When Star Wars was brought to the parks, the brand hadn’t yet endured a shellacking and it brought absolutely massive crowds.

I kind of thought they would want to replicate the boost in attendance numbers that Pandora and Galaxys edge brought with putting in popular IP. But after looking at how all of their movies have been performing, not sure what they consider to be a popular IP lol
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
I’m actually a little surprised with Indy 5 bombing at the box office that they are still moving forward with bringing Indy to AK. When Star Wars was brought to the parks, the brand hadn’t yet endured a shellacking and it brought absolutely massive crowds.

I kind of thought they would want to replicate the boost in attendance numbers that Pandora and Galaxys edge brought with putting in popular IP. But after looking at how all of their movies have been performing, not sure what they consider to be a popular IP lol
I feel the same way.
Granted, Indiana Jones (the first two) are films for the ages.
But... To announce in 2023 "Hey, we're getting rid of Dinosaurs in Animal Kingdom and replacing them with an Indiana Jones ride!" when the current film was a disaster strikes me wrong.
 

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