News 'Encanto' and 'Indiana Jones'-themed experiences at Animal Kingdom

LSLS

LSLS

Well-Known Member
Teddybearre said:
Disney Fans: We want new attractions at WDW we’ve been waiting for too long
Disney: *starts plans for Tropical Americas land*
Disney Fans: NO YOU’RE DOING IT ALL WRONG NOBODY WANTS THIS
Disney: View attachment 773964
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Yes, I want new attractions. Not replacements, new. Additional. More things to do. And I want it to thematically fit (admittedly IF we are getting a Tropical land, that does fit. We will see on the rides). Maybe I'm just a horrible customer.
 
danlb_2000

danlb_2000

Premium Member
JD80 said:
I don't know the answer to this. What was the theoretical capacity of Dinoland USA? What was the actual? Did actual capacity match or come close to theoretical? Even if the theoretical capacity was downgraded to "max realistic" capacity was that capacity fully realized on a daily basis?

My point is this - if they added all new rides that matched capacity of what was there before but instead of poor attractions they were attractions that actually drove attendance like Pandora/Rise/Remy/Tron/GotG would the capacity of the park INCREASE just because the actual max capacity was being utilized?
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To me, this is where things get tricky. Adding more rides increases operating costs and it if doesn't drive more spending to offset that what is the point of doing it from business perspective? If the new rides do drive more attendance it won't solve the capacity problem. Almost a catch 22.
 
GhostHost1000

GhostHost1000

Premium Member
mattpeto said:
Really think they might pivot Beyond now especially since Coco/Encanto might be part of AK. I think they would love to put Arendelle beyond Big Thunder Mountain. They would have to make it part of Fantasyland if so.
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If feels like they’ve been trying so hard to find a way to shove Coco and Encanto in the parks somewhere regardless if it “fits” or not
 
GhostHost1000

GhostHost1000

Premium Member
danlb_2000 said:
To me, this is where things get tricky. Adding more rides increases operating costs and it if doesn't drive more spending to offset that what is the point of doing it from business perspective? If the new rides do drive more attendance it won't solve the capacity problem. Almost a catch 22.
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From an AK perspective, if they can add enough rides and things to do for a full day park, they can then have a night show again and make money from more guests in the parks buying things.
 
Gusey

Gusey

Well-Known Member
The only way I can see Coco being added would be if TriceraTop Spin was converted into an alebrije spinner. I do hope they keep a spinner attraction in this area of the park as it is the only flat ride in the park, and is something without a height requirement
 
JD80

JD80

Well-Known Member
danlb_2000 said:
To me, this is where things get tricky. Adding more rides increases operating costs and it if doesn't drive more spending to offset that what is the point of doing it from business perspective? If the new rides do drive more attendance it won't solve the capacity problem. Almost a catch 22.
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I'm a systems engineer so I think in terms of systems and layers. Here's how my brain looks at this AK problem.

This is all based on my own assumptions and not hard data.

Most people are going to AK so they can do Pandora and the Safari. They stay for the trails, EE and maybe one or two of the shows. If the lines aren't too long they maybe head into Dinosaur. First timers are probably trying to do most of everything. Return visitors and locals are probably skipping Dinosaur more often than not.

If Dinoland is replaced by a headliner(s) that draw attendance it does a few things:
  1. Takes pressure off of FoP
  2. Keeps people in the park longer
    1. How often do you hear Rope Drop and leave by 1pm? Keeping people in the parks longer gets maybe 1 or 2 additional meals out of them and maybe additional merch.
  3. Attendance and capacity is smoothed out over the course of the day. I have to assume that Dino has a ton of un-utilized capacity outside the peak hour of the park. If new attractions are attractive enough to people, that max capacity is utilized longer throughout the day.
Drawing people to that side of the park may increase interest and utilize capacity more at Nemo too.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
JD80 said:
I don't know the answer to this. What was the theoretical capacity of Dinoland USA? What was the actual? Did actual capacity match or come close to theoretical? Even if the theoretical capacity was downgraded to "max realistic" capacity was that capacity fully realized on a daily basis?

My point is this - if they added all new rides that matched capacity of what was there before but instead of poor attractions they were attractions that actually drove attendance like Pandora/Rise/Remy/Tron/GotG would the capacity of the park INCREASE just because the actual max capacity was being utilized?
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If there is a wait then the capacity is being used. Yes there are ways to reduce operational throughput but they’re not really being used. People aren’t walking into Dinosaur, right up to load and then waiting for a vehicle to show up to just one side of the load platform.

Having more people in a queue can help with crowding but is not part of the capacity calculation.
 
JD80

JD80

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
If there is a wait then the capacity is being used. Yes there are ways to reduce operational throughput but they’re not really being used. People aren’t walking into Dinosaur, right up to load and then waiting for a vehicle to show up to just one side of the load platform.

Having more people in a queue can help with crowding but is not part of the capacity calculation.
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I agree, so here is my follow ups:

How often does Dinosaur actually have a wait vs. published? And if it's a low wait, are they loading vehicles to capacity or are they making accommodations for different party sizes?

Your last point is pretty key I think. I more desirable attraction puts more people in the queue and relieves pressure from the rest of the park. More people out of FoP and also potentially putting more butts in the Nemo show afterward.
 
JD80

JD80

Well-Known Member
peter11435 said:
People wanting to ride whatever replaces Dinosaur doesn’t suddenly make them no longer want to ride FOP. And if whatever replaces Dinosaurs drives increased park attendance, then it increases the pressure on FOP because there are now more people on the park still wanting to ride FOP.
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No of course not. Pandora gave AK a 20% bump in attendance from 2016 to 2017 (about 2M people). 2017 to 2018 saw about another 1.25M bump where basically attendance peaked through 2019 into the Pandemic.

AK has still yet to recover to those levels, 13.9M in 2019 and 9M in 2022. It took 2 years for AK to fully realize FoP draw. I would expect the same to happen with the Dinoland replacement.

That being said, operationally you will have more people in the parks, but you'll have more options for them to spread out in leveling out both demand and wait times. Look at it through a few layers too. More people in new Dinoland pulls people away from FoP at least at first. It also pulls people out of other parks.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
JD80 said:
I agree, so here is my follow ups:

How often does Dinosaur actually have a wait vs. published? And if it's a low wait, are they loading vehicles to capacity or are they making accommodations for different party sizes?

Your last point is pretty key I think. I more desirable attraction puts more people in the queue and relieves pressure from the rest of the park. More people out of FoP and also potentially putting more butts in the Nemo show afterward.
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The delta between theoretical capacity and operational capacity should not be huge. You have deeper operational issues if that is the case, once’s that will only be exacerbated by increasing demand.

More people in a queue is meaningless if there are more people in the park. You’re not decreasing demand elsewhere because it’s been replaced with the increased visitation.
 
D

doctornick

Well-Known Member
drew81 said:
Wonder what happens to the American crocodile, Abdim's storks and Asian brown tortoises?

Maybe move to another location in the park?
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Yes, in this talk mentioning live animals is the fact that there are a few animal enclosures in the area. I would expect that while specific animals would change to fit the new theme that there would still be some live animals in the new land.

It’s an interesting question as well whether the current species would remain at DAK or be sent to other animal facilities.
 
JD80

JD80

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
The delta between theoretical capacity and operational capacity should not be huge. You have deeper operational issues if that is the case, once’s that will only be exacerbated by increasing demand.

More people in a queue is meaningless if there are more people in the park. You’re not decreasing demand elsewhere because it’s been replaced with the increased visitation.
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Regarding queue space, outside the first month of operation where the new ride is overloaded with locals, APs and bloggers it's going to take a year or two to fully realize the true impact of "more people in the park". I think a headliner drawing more people to the parks is not going to be equal to the need for additional queue space. Your statement will be true eventually.

I also think it will have an impact on wait time elsewhere in the parks, especially early morning.

One thing that you have to consider is the human element and WEIGHT. Currently right now there is nothing on that side of the park keeping people there (Dinoland/Nemo). People spending an increased time in that corner of the park may create a sunk cost of "while I've spend all this time here already" and may help realize additional capacity for Nemo which in turn decreases wait times elsewhere.

It's much easier, psychologically. to hit up Dinosaur and bug out after a 10m wait and a 5m ride. But if you've been in that part of the park a few hours with 2+ rides and walking around you might be enticed to stay longer and do Nemo or stay for some food/shopping.

Anyway, I'm going beyond my original question! But my larger point is that even if you are replacing old capacity with similar capacity but it's more compelling you are creating something that is more beneficial for the operations of the park.
 
Andrew25

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
Induced demand is real, but it's not as significant as you think.

Yes, new attractions drive attendance, but they also provide additional capacity and spread crowds out. Parks will always be and feel busy... but wait-times can be managed correctly.

Disneyland exists with more than enough capacity and double DAK's attendance, and rarely do you see multiple waits over an hour.
 
CJR

CJR

Well-Known Member
doctornick said:
Yes, in this talk mentioning live animals is the fact that there are a few animal enclosures in the area. I would expect that while specific animals would change to fit the new theme that there would still be some live animals in the new land.

It’s an interesting question as well whether the current species would remain at DAK or be sent to other animal facilities.
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I could see a lot of smaller glass exhibits with a South American theme. Snakes, (tree) frogs, lizards, etc. Maybe some increased fish presence, although, perhaps not showing off piranhas? Or maybe they would.

I'll be surprised if we get a larger exhibit, like a leopard or monkey. Maybe they can move something over, if it fits and if they already have it.

It's too bad they chose South America instead of Australia, so many people don't realize the park has kangaroos. If they ever put it in the park, I think that'll be a guaranteed move.
 
J

J4546

Well-Known Member
Anyone hear anything about a possible addition of another attraction being built elsewhere in AK? Not just the dinoland redo but something else as well
 

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