Elemental (Pixar - June 2023)

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Labor costs in the US are traditionally more expensive than other parts of the world due to our predominantly higher cost of living.

Shift that work to those overseas and you can save on labor costs, hence lower the budget.

I don't have the hard numbers, but I'm sure animators and creative executives in California working for Pixar or WDAS makes more than animators and creative executives working in France for Illumination.
So to answer my question:
Are we saying these days, its not possible to both lower the budgets and keep the work in the US?

The answer is No.

The ironic thing is, they will send the work off shore, still have bloated budgets and still not be able to break even at the box office alone.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
So to answer my question:
Are we saying these days, its not possible to both lower the budgets and keep the work in the US?

The answer is No.

The ironic thing is, they will send the work off shore, still have bloated budgets and still not be able to break even at the box office alone.
I don't believe they will send the work off-shore, I never got any indication of that happening in anything being reported. So not sure where you get that idea.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
I don't believe they will send the work off-shore, I never got any indication of that happening in anything being reported. So not sure where you get that idea.
I think I was reading one of your posts that folks are screaming about lowering budgets and that could lead to moving work off shore and I simply asked if it was possible today to both lower budgets and keep work in the US?

There was never a clear answer to that so that is probably a no.

I don't like to see work go off shore but it looks like they are doing that anyway for example the future box office smash Snow White 2024.

Its sad that in the case of Snow White 2024 they will both have moved some work off shore AND will lose big money on this one too.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
I think I was reading one of your posts that folks are screaming about lowering budgets and that could lead to moving work off shore and I simply asked if it was possible today to both lower budgets and keep work in the US?

There was never a clear answer to that so that is probably a no.

I don't like to see work go off shore but it looks like they are doing that anyway for example the future box office smash Snow White 2024.

Its sad that in the case of Snow White 2024 they will both have moved some work off shore AND will lose big money on this one too.
There is a difference between talking about animation, which this thread is about, and live action movie production.

Live action movies get filmed around the world, they are already "off-shore" such as being filmed in the UK which is the case for the live action Snow White.

Animation however is done by the animation studios for the most part where ever they are located. For Pixar that is in Emeryville and for WDAS that is in Burbank. For Illumination their animators are located in Paris.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
I think I was reading one of your posts that folks are screaming about lowering budgets and that could lead to moving work off shore and I simply asked if it was possible today to both lower budgets and keep work in the US?

There was never a clear answer to that so that is probably a no.

I don't like to see work go off shore but it looks like they are doing that anyway for example the future box office smash Snow White 2024.

Its sad that in the case of Snow White 2024 they will both have moved some work off shore AND will lose big money on this one too.

On-Camera is very different than animation.

Many films can have locales globally, but still be under a US union agreement for the main cast and crew, plus local agreements for local talent and crews.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
There is a difference between talking about animation, which this thread is about, and live action movie production.

Live action movies get filmed around the world, they are already "off-shore" such as being filmed in the UK which is the case for the live action Snow White.

Animation however is done by the animation studios for the most part where ever they are located. For Pixar that is in Emeryville and for WDAS that is in Burbank. For Illumination their animators are located in Paris.
Got it. Animation is going to cost what it costs.

The only solution is to create stories that will get folks to buy tickets and go to the theater.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Got it. Animation is going to cost what it costs.

The only solution is to create stories that will get folks to buy tickets and go to the theater.
That is not at all what I said. I'm not sure if you're intentionally not reading or what.

There are certainly ways to trim costs to lower budgets for an animation film, and according to the Pixar executive they are looking for ways to trim costs. But what was also said is their budget has more added in, such as Creative Executive pay, than other animation studios.

And with some exception Disney Animation and Pixar are still both creating stories that folks want to see. As noted by the legs that Elemental has seen. Remember that the audience is still being retrained to see Disney Animation and Pixar movies in theaters instead of waiting for them to appear on D+.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
That is not at all what I said. I'm not sure if you're intentionally not reading or what.

There are certainly ways to trim costs to lower budgets for an animation film, and according to the Pixar executive they are looking for ways to trim costs. But what was also said is their budget has more added in, such as Creative Executive pay, than other animation studios.

And with some exception Disney Animation and Pixar are still both creating stories that folks want to see. As noted by the legs that Elemental has seen. Remember that the audience is still being retrained to see Disney Animation and Pixar movies in theaters instead of waiting for them to appear on D+.
Thanks for explaining. I am sure Elemental will beak even or make money eventually.

I am looking forward to seeing it on streaming, either purchase the digital copy or wait for it to get on D+ depending on what my family wants.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Thanks for explaining. I am sure Elemental will beak even or make money eventually.
Based on what Pixar President Jim Morris says, it'll be profitable during its theatrical run.

You can find his comments here -


Don't just read the headline, actually read the article.

I am looking forward to seeing it on streaming, either purchase the digital copy or wait for it to get on D+ depending on what my family wants.
You should see it in theaters.
 

WoundedDreamer

Well-Known Member
That is not at all what I said. I'm not sure if you're intentionally not reading or what.

There are certainly ways to trim costs to lower budgets for an animation film, and according to the Pixar executive they are looking for ways to trim costs. But what was also said is their budget has more added in, such as Creative Executive pay, than other animation studios.

And with some exception Disney Animation and Pixar are still both creating stories that folks want to see. As noted by the legs that Elemental has seen. Remember that the audience is still being retrained to see Disney Animation and Pixar movies in theaters instead of waiting for them to appear on D+.
Pixar has suffered a significant loss of inherent brand trust. It used to be that Pixar could reliably generate strong openings through loyalty to the brand alone. Overtime, loyalty to the brand has eroded to the point that audiences have to be cajoled into the theaters. While it's true that theaters have not been as successful since the pandemic, it's hard to argue that Pixar is undamaged. Elemental is unlikely to meaningfully change the perception of Pixar as a brand in decline. It is better than losing money, but the fact that we're celebrating a Pixar movie breaking even shows the terrible transformation that has taken place.
 
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Disney Irish

Premium Member
Pixar has suffered a significant loss of inherent brand trust. It used to be that Pixar could reliably generate strong openings through loyalty to the brand alone. Overtime loyalty the brand has eroded to the point that audiences have to be cajoled into the theaters. While it's true that theaters have not been as successful since the pandemic, it's hard to argue that Pixar is undamaged. Elemental is unlikely to meaningfully change the perception of Pixar as a brand in decline. It is better than losing money, but the fact that we're celebrating a Pixar movie breaking even shows the terrible transformation that has taken place.

So other than Lightyear, which is only a single film, what other stuff do you believe has caused a significant loss of brand trust?

I mean even the pandemic releases, Onward, Soul, Luca, and Turning Red, were all fairly well received by most audiences.
 

WoundedDreamer

Well-Known Member
So other than Lightyear, which is only a single film, what other stuff do you believe has caused a significant loss of brand trust?

I mean even the pandemic releases, Onward, Soul, Luca, and Turning Red, were all fairly well received by most audiences.
Now that's an interesting question. The exact cause of Pixar's decline is murky. Elemental's weak gross is indicative a broader struggle for the filmmaker to draw people out on the strength of the brand alone. Again, I'm hesitant to give an exact cause. What I can tell you is that all through the 2000s and 2010s Pixar's name on the marquee was enough to ensure success. Only the fluke Good Dinosaur was an outlier.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Now that's an interesting question. The exact cause of Pixar's decline is murky. Elemental's weak gross is indicative a broader struggle for the filmmaker to draw people out on the strength of the brand alone. Again, I'm hesitant to give an exact cause. What I can tell you is that all through the 2000s and 2010s Pixar's name on the marquee was enough to ensure success. Only the fluke Good Dinosaur was an outlier.
So then is it possible that its not a brand issue but rather an audience that has been trained by the 4 pandemic releases to expect to see Pixar films on D+ instead of theaters?

Basically what I'm saying is that this idea that the Pixar "brand" is now persona non grata is a bit overblown in my opinion.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Based on what Pixar President Jim Morris says, it'll be profitable during its theatrical run.
Oh boy! The president of Pixar said it. It must me true, after all, he has no reason to lie.
You should see it in theaters.
Why? Watching movies at home is the best thing ever today! Crystal clear big screens, rewind, pause, fast forward, all the snacks I could ever want right in my kitchen! And I can pause the movie while I get my snack!
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Oh boy! The president of Pixar said it. It must me true, after all, he has no reason to lie.
And yet he is the person who has access to all the financials, box office receipts, and real production budgets, we don't. We have estimates, that can at times be way off.

So yeah I'm going to go with the guy who has access to all the real data.

Why? Watching movies at home is the best thing ever today! Crystal clear big screens, rewind, pause, fast forward, all the snacks I could ever want right in my kitchen! And I can pause the movie while I get my snack!
So you say you want stories that bring people out to the theater but aren't willing to go out to the theater yourself. Got it. So you aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is.
 

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