Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[misterID]

Maybe it was Indy I was thinking of. I never thought about those dead spots aspects in Splash before. I know I'm not batting very well with my info, but do you think something like the great western river expedition would have been a better way to go than Splash Mountain? Just your personal opinion/

 

[tirian]

Little things. It's obviously a very popular and fun ride, just not my favorite.

My two cents on the DL version. Instead of scaling down the queue structures, they are designed at least full scale, no magic. The show seems longer than it is with lots of outdoor dead areas, just banjo music and props between scenes and the rockwork is too high for you to see much of the view. Those dead areas in the show hurt the pacing IMHO, feels like "filler". To me, the elaborate musical AA show is paired with a ride system that in the end is too intense for really young kids that would appreciate the show most, and based on a film the company won't even let them see. (So they are perpetuating a story that can't capitalize on). The TDL version gets it right, pretty awesome as it is it's own "land". They really create a "sense of place" and that's what it needed. They had discussed a more Frontierish themed flume ride earlier for DL, and I would have preferred that. My favorite flume ride is Knott's Log Ride (At Knott's Berry Farm in CA). Perfect theme (technically remedial by WDI standards), length, pacing, thrill intensity, all of it. I've never ridden better. Awesome family flume ride.

Out of curiosity, Eddie, have you been on the WDW version of Splash Mt? It's generally considered superior to the DL version precisely because it has a tighter storyline.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Out of curiosity, Eddie, have you been on the WDW version of Splash Mt? It's generally considered superior to the DL version precisely because it has a tighter storyline.

I may have been, but it's been at least 10 years. I have heard that is is better, yes..

 

[_Scar]

Eddie, have you seen the new Princess and the Frog?

I've always heard rumors about Imagineers given tasks to creae attractions about a movie before it comes out to be ready if the movie is a smash hit.

For example, Atlantis' takeover of 20k Under the Sea.

Is this true? And are there any other notable Imagineer workings the fans have never heard about that were concepted around a failed movie?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, have you seen the new Princess and the Frog?

I've always heard rumors about Imagineers given tasks to creae attractions about a movie before it comes out to be ready if the movie is a smash hit.

For example, Atlantis' takeover of 20k Under the Sea.

Is this true? And are there any other notable Imagineer workings the fans have never heard about that were concepted around a failed movie?

I have not seen the P&F as yet. Should I? Have you? I did see a great documentary about design process that is on iTunes called "Objectified" (lots of stuff on Apple). You'd all get something out of it. I did. Speaking of iTunes, I put my own imix up there featuring some samples of the music we play at Rivera if you are interested in previewing it. Search "A Night at Rivera". (Bossa Nova version of "Roxanne" is pretty interesting). Rate it if you like. It's just a small sample of 12 hours of background music.

As for tying in movies with rides, I don't think they go as far in design as they used to before knowing how the film does. It's hard, as the time it takes to develop a project is measured in years, not months, so the buzz from the movie is gone if you wait for its success. Shows seem to be easier and quicker to tie in, like "High School Musical" or "Lion King". The first one coming to mind is "D_I_C_K Tracy", the discussion can be found right here on this thread (search it). We discussed what it was gonna be like along with prototyping of the ride system.

Tony Baxter's land concept of "Discovery Bay" was somewhat based on another failed movie, "Island at the Top of the World".

"Atlantis" was also a show intended for Disneyland's Subs. Successful films have rides developed too, but they never happen either. "Beauty and the Beast", "101 Dalmations", "Mary Poppins" (even "Scream" from Miramax) and others come to mind.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

I worked on that version of Indy too (worked on three versions), but don't recall Splash beating it out, it's possible, but I'm just too brain damaged to remember!

The thing about Big Thunder and many other rides as you point out, the execution itself is at such a level that differentiates it. BTMRR as a concept is not unique at all. Six Flags had a runaway mine train years earlier, but it was not convincing as BTMRR is.

Sorry if I'm not following as well as I should, but the Indiana Jones Adventure was seriously considered for Paris? The multiple ride version?

I'm just curious because Disneylands Indy is by far my favorite attraction currently in existence. The artwork of the inside of the showbuilding proposal with the Railroad and Jungle Cruise traveling through it just absolutely enchants me.

 

[_Scar]

I have not seen the P&F as yet. Should I? Have you? I did see a great documentary about design process that is on iTunes called "Objectified" (lots of stuff on Apple). You'd all get something out of it. I did. Speaking of iTunes, I put my own imix up there featuring some samples of the music we play at Rivera if you are interested in previewing it. Search "A Night at Rivera". (Bossa Nova version of "Roxanne" is pretty interesting). Rate it if you like. It's just a small sample of 12 hours of background music.

As for tying in movies with rides, I don't think they go as far in design as they used to before knowing how the film does. It's hard, as the time it takes to develop a project is measured in years, not months, so the buzz from the movie is gone if you wait for its success. Shows seem to be easier and quicker to tie in, like "High School Musical" or "Lion King". The first one coming to mind is "D_I_C_K Tracy", the discussion can be found right here on this thread (search it). We discussed what it was gonna be like along with prototyping of the ride system.

Tony Baxter's land concept of "Discovery Bay" was somewhat based on another failed movie, "Island at the Top of the World".

"Atlantis" was also a show intended for Disneyland's Subs. Successful films have rides developed too, but they never happen either. "Beauty and the Beast", "101 Dalmations", "Mary Poppins" (even "Scream" from Miramax) and others come to mind.

I did, you should It's a great, great movie and the animation is stunning and the music is catchy. Personally, my second favorite DAS movie.

I'll be sure to check out iTunes, too! Is 12 hours of background music a normal amount? :lol:

Have you ever worked on a project on a movie that didn't do so hot in theaters?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Sorry if I'm not following as well as I should, but the Indiana Jones Adventure was seriously considered for Paris? The multiple ride version?

I'm just curious because Disneylands Indy is by far my favorite attraction currently in existence. The artwork of the inside of the showbuilding proposal with the Railroad and Jungle Cruise traveling through it just absolutely enchants me.

Paris got the coaster. The big three idea was considered for DL's Adventureland. I think we covered some of the detail of that earlier in the thread, you may want to search it if interested.

 

[Pumbaa]

Wait Eddie, is it true that there really was a Beauty and the Beast dark ride planned during your tenure? I've heard rumors that a trackless dark ride was developed, but can you substantiate those at all. I'm also curious about a 101 Dalmatians ride as well.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Wait Eddie, is it true that there really was a Beauty and the Beast dark ride planned during your tenure? I've heard rumors that a trackless dark ride was developed, but can you substantiate those at all. I'm also curious about a 101 Dalmatians ride as well.

I saw a B&B Dark Ride proposed as a Snow White or Pinocchio replacement and also a 101D dark ride, which was part of our TDL New Fantasyland project. Any trackless versions came after my time.

 

[HMF]

Successful films have rides developed too, but they never happen either. "Beauty and the Beast", "101 Dalmations", "Mary Poppins" (even "Scream" from Miramax) and others come to mind.

Well' it seems everything gets a second chance. (like Little Mermaid.)

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Well' it seems everything gets a second chance. (like Little Mermaid.)

Yes.That ride was proposed years ago too, it just took years to find the right opportunity to get it made. There is a 3D ride through on the "Little Mermaid" DVD rerelease.

 

[WDITrent]

^That's the version that was supposed to be built at DLRP though, wasn't it? The one being built includes omnimovers, a much longer ride, more scenes, and advanced AAs.

 

[kcnole]

yes, the original version of mermaid was on a smaller C ticket scale. I think the post was that ideas never go away. It does seem from the artwork that many of the show scenes in that ride are being ported over, just on a more grander scale.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

^That's the version that was supposed to be built at DLRP though, wasn't it? The one being built includes omnimovers, a much longer ride, more scenes, and advanced AAs.

Probably. That show was also proposed for the Motor Boat Cruise area (near IASW) of DL too. From what I hear, the WDW/DCA version is still very robust. I spoke with some of the guys building the AA's, and they are pretty sophisticated, so it's not stripped down, although not the DLRP version perhaps.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

yes, the original version of mermaid was on a smaller C ticket scale. I think the post was that ideas never go away. It does seem from the artwork that many of the show scenes in that ride are being ported over, just on a more grander scale.

Yeah. The DCA Blue Sky Winery had a video that previewed it and it looked pretty lush.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I did, you should It's a great, great movie and the animation is stunning and the music is catchy. Personally, my second favorite DAS movie.

I'll be sure to check out iTunes, too! Is 12 hours of background music a normal amount? :lol:

Have you ever worked on a project on a movie that didn't do so hot in theaters?

We only posted a few songs, and yes, 12 hours is huge. I prefer 2 good hours!

Hmmm. The only underperforming film that qualifies on my watch was Fantasia 2000. We did a retail superstore concept in TDR (between the parks) based on the upcoming movie. We had a Sorcerer's Apprentice themed multimedia show and rising AA fountain, Donald's Ark, etc. All music driven retail scheme. A superstore got built, but with an abstract travel concept called "Bon Voyage", not "Fantasia". BV was insanely successful, so no worries there.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Kevin Yee

An interesting article from Micechat's Kevin Yee today. It addresses how WDW is dealing with the economy (cutting some things back, like Xmas decor, but giving away other things like rooms and food), but raises an interesting high level question about what a "premium experience" is and if discounting erodes that. Do the discount tables in the shops say something about the value of Disney? Are they there because no one is paying the higher prices, or is it an overreaction to the economy? All good questions to ask. It's not about whining or lamenting any of this, but objectively discussing the psychology of these methods and the value perception on the part of the guest. A good topic in any season. It might be good to find analogs in other businesses to examine. Kevin lays it out pretty well for discussion. Interesting.

http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky121509a.htm

Here's link to a book I picked up recently called "Shoptimism". It's good to understand why people buy things and what attracts them, as shopping as an attraction is a big part of the theme park experience. Same with food.

http://www.amazon.com/Shoptimism-Am...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260891761&sr=1-1

 

[PhilharMagician]

We only posted a few songs, and yes, 12 hours is huge. I prefer 2 good hours!

Hmmm. The only underperforming film that qualifies on my watch was Fantasia 2000. We did a retail superstore concept in TDR (between the parks) based on the upcoming movie. We had a Sorcerer's Apprentice themed multimedia show and rising AA fountain, Donald's Ark, etc. All music driven retail scheme. A superstore got built, but with an abstract travel concept called "Bon Voyage", not "Fantasia". BV was insanely successful, so no worries there.

I personally really enjoy Fantasia 2000. I was very disappointed when the next in the series (Fantasia 2007?) was supposed to be released and was cancelled because such a bad sales performance for Fantasia 2000. I would love to see a new production today with HD A/V and with the advancements in computer imaging it could be amazing.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

An interesting article from Micechat's Kevin Yee today. It addresses how WDW is dealing with the economy (cutting some things back, like Xmas decor, but giving away other things like rooms and food), but raises an interesting high level question about what a "premium experience" is and if discounting erodes that. Do the discount tables in the shops say something about the value of Disney?

In general, I'd prefer Disney to offer a premium product for a premium price. Disney to me ought to be top of the line. I can get my discounted fares and thrills much cheaper, much more close to home. So disney will never win in that market.

Discounts don't bring me to WDW, a childhood-imprinted love for WDW does. Whereas slipping standards are keeping me away.


I also left DRP with money burning in my pocket this summer. I wanted to spend, but couldn't find anything to spend it on. This was new to me. From previous vacations, I remembered always overspending. I always wanted it all. So this time I put myself on a budget. Then ended up not even managing to spend the half of it.

Now something is amiss when your customers - in my case, an outright fan - want to spend more, but can't find a way.


I am afraid I'll end up in the statistics as 'came for the discount, then underspend while there'. Which is not the case. My money was simply spend outside of Disney, or not spend at all.

Which brings me to the following. Slightly related, but not too off-topic for this thread: my entire experience of DRP. Unlike the previous time, this year I slept in the centre of Paris, ate my meals there, divided my time between the city and the park, and spend most my money in the city. Much as I adore DLR's castle park, the hotels, nighttime entertainment and food just don't do it for me. It's not a complete resort the way WDW is.

Might as well be more frank: entertainment outside the gate is rubbish. The second gate too is not an enticement, it is a disaster area. There's no great water park either, or indoor tropical paradise.
That sugarcandy hotel near the entrance is fantastic - if woefully misplaced too near the entrance - but the other hotels are rubbish. To me, they look like bland Euro 1980's social housing projects. Good food is difficult to find, both within and outside the parks. That goes for both junkfood and proper meals. I survived on those hotdogs they sell in a dozen places in the park.
Sad really. Such a nice park, and despite the common perception that the resort suffered financially because of too large investments in the hotels and everything outside of the gate, I think it is precisely in that area that the resort is let down.