Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Master Yoda]

You know that's not really fair. Who has spreadsheets with that information? And if they did, people here still wouldn't believe them (see my old thread on how Disney has cut operating hours).

At some point you either accept something or you don't.

WDW used to regularly close attractions annually for work. That's why they had signs at both TTC and in front of MK (and later EPCOT and later MGM etc ) that said 'The Following Attractions Are Not Operating Today' ... often you'd see a list of attractions.

Taking away HoP (which had to close by nature of what it is) and the decade-plus overdue cleaning of Space Mountain (which also closes TTA too) and everything would be open ... because at WDW in the 21st century everything is always open ... except, of course, all the things that are simply closed without replacements.

And that makes closing things even more problematic and makes the need for new attractions even more compelling.

I do know it is not really fair but put up or shut up statements rarely are. Considering the number of unofficial Disney historians that are out there the refurb data almost has to exist somewhere. If he can come up with the data from a somewhat credible source (ie any place other that his imagination or fuzzy memories) and it shows what he has been describing then I would be happy to accept his hypothesis as credible.

I am a skeptical not cynical. If you show me proof I will believe, but if you ask me to believe based on faith alone I have an issue.

 

[WDWFigment]

It's very interesting that you mention this. A lot of people seem to ignore this fact, and how it changes things considerably when talking about DL vs WDW offerings.

We've been discussing at length on another thread why WDW are so concerned about closing attractions such as the Mansion for the Nightmare overlay, and yet DL are happy to do so each year. The rational is that DL being comprised of locals and APs understand the closure is neccessary and enjoy the end result. Whereas at WDW, the visitor base are tourists on an average 2 year cycle and expect to have everything open when they are there.

Interesting that this comes up here.

I posted a topic about how I believe DVC should begin to change this trend in General Discussion, but it didn't get many responses (probably a combination of poor thread title and the wrong sub-forum for its "target audience"): http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=455478

 

[DisneyDellsDude]

That's exactly it. It was horribly tacky and out of place (and no, I don't want to argue with anyone who found it magical!)

I have to say that I liked the wand when it said 2000 on it. It was unique and really added to the entire Millennium Celebration, which was a really neat time. I just wish they kept it for that time period (1999-2001). To me, the Millennium Celebration seemed as if it was one of WDW's best and most unique "celebration". But after they wrote "Epcot" on it... :fork:
2001 is when everything went downhill, and fast!
But at least the wand is over and done with.

 

[SirGoofy]

Just want to chime in here with another bit of priase for the Disneyland JC boathouse, and really that version of the JC in general.
I was flipping through my copy of the "World Famous Jungle Cruise Survival Guide" from that first year after it opened with the new boathouse/theme.
Brilliant! Setting the ride in 1938, incorporating Indy in the speil, the upstairs show scenes in the boathouse, giving the skippers a choice of "characters" to play, creating a backstory for the Jungle Navigation Company....it all just blows me away.
Very well done, and is the best job of tying a land together I can think of.

Now...if they could do something with that mish-mash of theme they call Adventureland at MK.

We have a story to our JC...they just don't freaking tell anyone what it is.:brick:

 

[The Conundrum]

They never said it as such but I think that the final straw for removing the wand was that it was deteriorating and presented a saftey hazard.
Not that the whole wand would fall over but it had a lot of little pieces, including those on SSE. If any one of those came loose and hit a guest it would very bad.
Maintenance and safety probably became major issues and added to the esthetic reasons for making the managerial final decision to remove it.

IMHO

This is correct along with the people that said Seimens wanted it down. Had nothing to do with fan complaints (The company has pretty much made it clear they don't care about fans (They used to openly mock Al Lutz and other hardcore fans at meetings.) otherwise it would have been removed YEARS ago.

We have a story to our JC...they just don't freaking tell anyone what it is.

It's basically Disneyland's old story right?

 

[SirGoofy]

It's basically Disneyland's old story right?

Yea, except Merriweather Pleasure was sorta retro fitted in as the suspected owner of the company. Hence why all the crates are marked for shipment to the Adventurer's Club.

I guess that's dead now, huh?:brick:

 

[The Conundrum]

Yea, except Merriweather Pleasure was sorta retro fitted in as the suspected owner of the company. Hence why all the crates are marked for shipment to the Adventurer's Club.

I guess that's dead now, huh?:brick:

I'll bet you that nobody at the Parks & Resort division even knows who Merriweather Pleasure is/was.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Just want to chime in here with another bit of priase for the Disneyland JC boathouse, and really that version of the JC in general.
I was flipping through my copy of the "World Famous Jungle Cruise Survival Guide" from that first year after it opened with the new boathouse/theme.
Brilliant! Setting the ride in 1938, incorporating Indy in the speil, the upstairs show scenes in the boathouse, giving the skippers a choice of "characters" to play, creating a backstory for the Jungle Navigation Company....it all just blows me away.
Very well done, and is the best job of tying a land together I can think of.

Now...if they could do something with that mish-mash of theme they call Adventureland at MK.

Do you still have that guide? I'd love to see it. I worked on that Boathouse project.

 

[unkadug]

I'll bet you that nobody at the Parks & Resort division even knows who Merriweather Pleasure is/was.

I bet that you are right on this.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It's very interesting that you mention this. A lot of people seem to ignore this fact, and how it changes things considerably when talking about DL vs WDW offerings.

We've been discussing at length on another thread why WDW are so concerned about closing attractions such as the Mansion for the Nightmare overlay, and yet DL are happy to do so each year. The rational is that DL being comprised of locals and APs understand the closure is neccessary and enjoy the end result. Whereas at WDW, the visitor base are tourists on an average 2 year cycle and expect to have everything open when they are there.

That's funny, when I was there I was told the cycle was 5 to 7 years for WDW tourists.

 

[Lee]

Do you still have that guide? I'd love to see it. I worked on that Boathouse project.

I'd be happy to send you a copy, just tell me where...:wave:

 

[mcjaco]

This is correct along with the people that said Seimens wanted it down. Had nothing to do with fan complaints (The company has pretty much made it clear they don't care about fans (They used to openly mock Al Lutz and other hardcore fans at meetings.) otherwise it would have been removed YEARS ago.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

And I wonder why I've not been missing the forums lately. :hammer:

 

[The Conundrum]

Where do you come up with this stuff?

And I wonder why I've not been missing the forums lately. :hammer:

im sorry...what did I make up?

 

[Captain Chaos]

im sorry...what did I make up?

The part where it suddenly became a safety hazard?? Just a guess though... I'm not saying you made it up, just referring to what I thought mc was asking...

 

[wdwmagic]

That's funny, when I was there I was told the cycle was 5 to 7 years for WDW tourists.

It's intersting how that cycle has compressed in the last 10 years. The latest figure I have from this year is that they now work on the average 2 year cycle. I'm assuming the rise in low cost air travel and the increase in international guests that go yearly (I know a heck of a lot of the UK do this) have had a big impact on the cycle.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It's intersting how that cycle has compressed in the last 10 years. The latest figure I have from this year is that they now work on the average 2 year cycle. I'm assuming the rise in low cost air travel and the increase in international guests that go yearly (I know a heck of a lot of the UK do this) have had a big impact on the cycle.

Wow. It's so different from DL where the majority of guests are now AP's. Al Lutz's recent article on how the August blockout days are now the "off season" shocked me. They need to really wake up to this and speed up the cycle of change in the parks on the soft stuff, like fun merchandise, seasonal menus in the restaurants, "must have" signature items on food carts, CRM services (i.e. piano player knows your name) etc., so the AP's will spend more in park overall and not burn out on it. To a degree, the attraction makeovers for the holidays already do this and it works. The park has a more dramatic seasonal change.

 

[wdwmagic]

Wow. It's so different from DL where the majority of guests are now AP's. Al Lutz's recent article on how the August blockout days are now the "off season" shocked me. They need to really wake up to this and speed up the cycle of change in the parks on the soft stuff, like fun merchandise, seasonal menus in the restaurants, "must have" signature items on food carts, CRM services (i.e. piano player knows your name) etc., so the AP's will spend more in park overall and not burn out on it. To a degree, the attraction makeovers for the holidays already do this and it works. The park has a more dramatic seasonal change.

It will be interesting to see if the big influx of DVC accommodations at WDW bring a similar seasonal change to WDW. WDW will always be the big international draw, but they have to be seeing a bigger AP and DVC visitor base than in the past. Those frequent visitors are going to need to see a constant refresh of offerings. Or does WDW perhaps see that the Epcot and Studios seasonal events are enough to keep things fresh - I'm not convinced it's enough.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It will be interesting to see if the big influx of DVC accommodations at WDW bring a similar seasonal change to WDW. WDW will always be the big international draw, but they have to be seeing a bigger AP and DVC visitor base than in the past. Those frequent visitors are going to need to see a constant refresh of offerings. Or does WDW perhaps see that the Epcot and Studios seasonal events are enough to keep things fresh - I'm not convinced it's enough.

Interesting. I recall that the WDW repeat audience was shrinking to like 35% and mostly coming from the north east or something. This was a decade ago. But the point at the time was that the audience of 7 year repeaters was smaller but more loyal. They had to widen it fast and it looks like they did with the DVC.

Not sure how they will evolve things, but they will of course. Universal will play into it too for the DVC people as Potter opens. I don't think it's so much adding things as much as it is differentiating the parks more and making what you can afford to add pushing out the uniqueness of that park, thusly giving the guest a reason to visit.

Having said all of that, the hotel pool is usually the biggest memory for the kids!

 

[wdwmagic]

Having said all of that, the hotel pool is usually the biggest memory for the kids!

Yep and I think we are seeing that with the recent round of pool refurbs. The Contemp, Caribbean Beach, and the new Animal Kingdom villas all have fairly elaborate pool areas, and all feature wet play areas for the kids. Having said that though, they have stopped short in each case of doing something that might cause people to decide to skip a water park.

 

[Master Yoda]

Interesting. I recall that the WDW repeat audience was shrinking to like 35% and mostly coming from the north east or something. This was a decade ago. But the point at the time was that the audience of 7 year repeaters was smaller but more loyal. They had to widen it fast and it looks like they did with the DVC.

Not sure how they will evolve things, but they will of course. Universal will play into it too for the DVC people as Potter opens. I don't think it's so much adding things as much as it is differentiating the parks more and making what you can afford to add pushing out the uniqueness of that park, thusly giving the guest a reason to visit.

Having said all of that, the hotel pool is usually the biggest memory for the kids!

You have no idea how true this is. When my oldest girls were around 7-10 all they wanted to do when we were at WDW is go to the pool.:lol: