Jasonflz
Well-Known Member
Interesting...
I had never thought about those concepts implemented into Tomorrowland although they would make the most sense.
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Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks
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Interesting...
I had never thought about those concepts implemented into Tomorrowland although they would make the most sense.
ValentineMouse
New Member
Eddie, can I be yet another person to send thanks your way for giving us this peek into the mind of Imagineer. I've been refreshing this thread constantly hoping for another comment from you!
I'm really happy I found out it was you behind Plectu! I'm hugely interested in the ideas and plans dreamt up at Imagineering but never given the greenlight, and Plectu's Fantastic Intergalactic Revue (hope I've got the name right?) is one of my favourite never-built attractions. The Carousel of Progress building as a flying saucer is one the coolest pieces of concept art I've seen - it would look amazing in Tomorrowland if it was given the go ahead, and I never knew before now that it was inspired by the Millenium Falcon, or that George Lucas had a hand in designing Plectu!
I run a website all about these never built attractions, lands, parks, hotels etc. - an online collection as it were! I've got pages all about Plectu, the 1920's Main Street USA for Disneyland Paris, Sci-fi City and possibly some other projects of yours I don't know to attribute to you! I have no doubt some of the information will be wrong (I've had to piece together a lot from rumor and hearsay), but I'd love for you to take a look. I'm going to have to find some time to update the pages with all the information you've just given us!
If there are any projects you know about that I haven't included, please please let me know so I can add something about them, if you have time! Thanks again for the insight Eddie, its invaluable!
I'm really happy I found out it was you behind Plectu! I'm hugely interested in the ideas and plans dreamt up at Imagineering but never given the greenlight, and Plectu's Fantastic Intergalactic Revue (hope I've got the name right?) is one of my favourite never-built attractions. The Carousel of Progress building as a flying saucer is one the coolest pieces of concept art I've seen - it would look amazing in Tomorrowland if it was given the go ahead, and I never knew before now that it was inspired by the Millenium Falcon, or that George Lucas had a hand in designing Plectu!
I run a website all about these never built attractions, lands, parks, hotels etc. - an online collection as it were! I've got pages all about Plectu, the 1920's Main Street USA for Disneyland Paris, Sci-fi City and possibly some other projects of yours I don't know to attribute to you! I have no doubt some of the information will be wrong (I've had to piece together a lot from rumor and hearsay), but I'd love for you to take a look. I'm going to have to find some time to update the pages with all the information you've just given us!
If there are any projects you know about that I haven't included, please please let me know so I can add something about them, if you have time! Thanks again for the insight Eddie, its invaluable!
The Conundrum
New Member
What was that Expedition jeep ride for Disneyland Paris all about? I remember reading that it was an EMV ride like Indy except based on Jungle Book? Is that correct?
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Think Huge.
I was talking with a scientist in nanotechnology recently who was discussing making jet fuel from algae. It's been done, it's easy to do and it's clean. (Imagine the Land Pavilion being sponsored by an Airline!) Awesome!
He spoke of someday engineering coral or other natural carbon free sources to "secrete" it's own concrete or just grow a building. YEAH BABY. (The next Contemporary Hotel Tower?) THAT.... my friends is the new Tomorrowland! Not just an iPhone (although I want the 32G one). Thinking big is so 20th century, to survive this one we gotta think huge. I'm glad guys like that scientist are doing just that. Let's all tap into those minds!
I was talking with a scientist in nanotechnology recently who was discussing making jet fuel from algae. It's been done, it's easy to do and it's clean. (Imagine the Land Pavilion being sponsored by an Airline!) Awesome!
He spoke of someday engineering coral or other natural carbon free sources to "secrete" it's own concrete or just grow a building. YEAH BABY. (The next Contemporary Hotel Tower?) THAT.... my friends is the new Tomorrowland! Not just an iPhone (although I want the 32G one). Thinking big is so 20th century, to survive this one we gotta think huge. I'm glad guys like that scientist are doing just that. Let's all tap into those minds!
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Sheesh. Awesome stuff.
Tap these minds, Imagineer it right...You have a awesome and fresh WDW.
Jasonflz
Well-Known Member
That is an amazing idea and congrats on using your imagination. Michael Eisner didn't know how to think beyond corporate business and that was his ultimate downfall. Btw, for the Plectu concept art, how did you draw and ultimately color the final picture?
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
BTW- the art is not my painting, but the design is mine from an earlier rendering I did. I think Rick Rothchild came up with Plectu, and worked on the show aspects. The other idea which I was developing was a battling droid concept where guests would cheer for their favorite droid to win the battle (on the top floor of the Carousel) and the show changed based on audience response. Lucas liked the idea alot. We had a snotty little droid that came out at the end with huge firepower, etc. funny stuff. Of course time has caught up and TV has done this idea.
ValentineMouse
New Member
Thanks for the clarification Eddie, and thanks for telling us about the battle droid idea. It sounds like it would have been really cool -- I wish the Disney Company was more willing to include that type of atmospheric and unique experience. Not only would it add layers to the theming and depth of the lands, but it would also give something fun and unusual to do.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
The one on the Neverland site is a painting done from my earlier rendering. Maybe Neverland can find it and post it through their sources! I used markers on a small line drawing and blew the image on a xerox up to like eight feet long and redrew in more detail and colored it with marker.
ValentineMouse
New Member
lol, my source there would be trawling through Google Images looking for "never built disney attractions"! That's the best copy I've got, and the only image I have of the Plectu attraction unfortunately! I'm just a fan who's bought a bunch of Imagineering books and likes reading interviews with Imagineers lol!
Jasonflz
Well-Known Member
Now that would have been cool and unique. Another great concept lost. Hopefully at least one of these original plans shows up again in the future for an attraction.
I would like to see that.
jt04
Well-Known Member
As for "37" design, I was refering to the backlit display of bottles and the large light designed with bottles/glasses. It somewhat reminded me of features in your restaurant like the lighting fixture that uses red bottles and the backlit bottles you display. That is all I was refering to.
I've seen the pictures of some of your menu items and they are amazing!
I can see how much work you and your crew put into those.
The reason I asked about the Sci-Fi concept and the naming of the land is because I'd like to see WDW go in a similar direction. I think it would be more appropriate to call T-Land by another name especially since WDW has a "Future World" at Epcot. So I think T-Land would function better as a futuristic sci-fi fantasy world and should have a name that fits the theme. Whereas, Future World is better named and a more appropriate place to showcase the kind of cutting edge technologies you refer to. To me "Future World" is the realization of Walt's intentions for his version of Tomorrowland at Disneyland. Or at least it should be.
Having said all that, I realize the chance of them changing the name from Tomorrowland to "Sci-Fi City" (or something similar) are pretty remote but that does not mean they shouldn't.
Thanks again for the responses. It is really kind of you.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
No worries, happy to. As for naming, it's all about expectations. If you promise something in an area, then you need to give people something beyond expectation. So matching the experience with the name is important as you point out. (I see your points on 37 as well.)
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
The future is out there. Think Huge.
I ran across this article (looking for the first test flight of an algae powered plane) on how a 15 yr old created their own home energy plant. IF this kind of thing worked and was demo'd in an entertaining way, could power an attraction. Thought provoking stuff. As an Imagineer, you usually start with stuff like this as research and look for what may capture the guest's imagination.
http://cleantechnica.com/2009/06/09/15-year-old-invents-complete-algae-energy-system/
http://www.greenaironline.com/news.php?viewStory=206
When the public sees that algae can be grown to fly them to Hawaii (still preliminary) or power their home from waste while lowering their own cost of living, then people go home from WDW with a renewed sense that Disney really can make dreams come true because they showed them.. As much as Fantasyland delivers on it's promise when you ride IASW or Peter Pan, Tomorrowland or (EPCOT) has to deliver on it's promise too. And it's not just a demo of something cool, it's emotional and life changing. The issue has been in the past that technology changes too fast so you cannot be current. Walt knew that, but set the bar in 1967 so far out there it could last, as he gave the guest a long term goal of EPCOT, a city of the future they wanted to actually build.
My fave quote about all this stuff came from one of the Disney fellows, a group of science consultants we had on board and truly great thinkers. Alan Kay (credited with inventing the personal computer and the mouse) once said "the best way to predict the future is to invent it". (He later argued that maybe you should switch invent for prevent)
Gotta love that! If you want to experience the kind of conversation you'd have at WDI with a man like Alan (I'd just listen), read this lecture on computing. It's eye opening. Have some fun and open your heads!
http://www.windley.com/archives/2006/02/alan_kay_is_com.shtml
I ran across this article (looking for the first test flight of an algae powered plane) on how a 15 yr old created their own home energy plant. IF this kind of thing worked and was demo'd in an entertaining way, could power an attraction. Thought provoking stuff. As an Imagineer, you usually start with stuff like this as research and look for what may capture the guest's imagination.
http://cleantechnica.com/2009/06/09/15-year-old-invents-complete-algae-energy-system/
http://www.greenaironline.com/news.php?viewStory=206
When the public sees that algae can be grown to fly them to Hawaii (still preliminary) or power their home from waste while lowering their own cost of living, then people go home from WDW with a renewed sense that Disney really can make dreams come true because they showed them.. As much as Fantasyland delivers on it's promise when you ride IASW or Peter Pan, Tomorrowland or (EPCOT) has to deliver on it's promise too. And it's not just a demo of something cool, it's emotional and life changing. The issue has been in the past that technology changes too fast so you cannot be current. Walt knew that, but set the bar in 1967 so far out there it could last, as he gave the guest a long term goal of EPCOT, a city of the future they wanted to actually build.
My fave quote about all this stuff came from one of the Disney fellows, a group of science consultants we had on board and truly great thinkers. Alan Kay (credited with inventing the personal computer and the mouse) once said "the best way to predict the future is to invent it". (He later argued that maybe you should switch invent for prevent)
Gotta love that! If you want to experience the kind of conversation you'd have at WDI with a man like Alan (I'd just listen), read this lecture on computing. It's eye opening. Have some fun and open your heads!
http://www.windley.com/archives/2006/02/alan_kay_is_com.shtml
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
jt04
Well-Known Member
This is great! And I also believe Walt wanted to open people's minds with his Tomorrowland at DL. Now that Future World exists that vision should be transfered there. Future World's roots are truly Walt inspired and that area has as much in common with the 64 Worlds Fair as it does with his E.P.C.O.T. They are really both about inspiring folks to create a better future for themselves. Not utopian but rather optimistic.
I have heard the complaint that keeping a land that focuses on the future relevant is nearly impossible whether we are talking about the original Tomorrowland or Future World at Epcot. But I think that is really a failure of imagination and vision.
For example, if M:S actually simulated a journey to a Martian outpost by the first space tourists it would be relevant for at least another quarter century. (I have speculated that it would be easy to connect the Space building to the WoL building, which could easily be converted to represent a martian outpost....as have others here).
Another example would be to convert Test Track to be a test of vehicles that are self navigating and thereby make the attraction forward looking for at least another 10 years.
So to me the claim that it is too difficult to make forward looking pavilions stand the test of time seems like nothing more than an excuse to do nothing.
They need somebody like you to get Epcot's Future World back on track. Not to mention what you could do for "Sci-Fi City" at the Magic Kingdom.
Jasonflz
Well-Known Member
I'm begging you...go BACK, PLEASE, go back, to WDI:lol:
Agreed!
Studios Fan
Active Member
I agree.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Thanks
All of this is very flattering and thank you for the votes of confidence. I just want to get you thinking like Imagineers, that's all.
However, to be fair, it's not like this kind of forward thinking does not exist within today's WDI. We are blissfully blessed with the ignorance of the obstacles they face every day. As much as we want to wish it away, Disney is still a public company and within that structure it's very hard to make these kinds of things happen, and to get them funded you have to compromise the vision to a degree to please many masters. (Think Congress). So timing has lots to do what happens and how big. The economy makes it super tough right now.
Having said that, I believe that the WDI leadership (Bruce and Craig) is better now than it has ever been. I mean that. They have a great opportunity with Bob Iger, who is the most technologically passionate CEO since Walt. I mean that too. (Disney beat them all to iTunes. Disney has interactive Blu-ray and more.) Then you add Lassiter who is very involved. What they will finally do is anyone's guess, but I can tell you that the potential is truly there and so is the talent. Ideas like we discuss are the kinds of things they talk about and hope for every day at WDI. The parks have much to say about what goes in and there is only so much money. So compromise has to be an art form to maintain the big idea. Even in this meltdown economy, I'd rather bet on WDI than any other organization in the world. Do I love everything they do? No. (and so what? I don't love even half of the things I do). Do I ever doubt that Imagineers will do whatever it takes to try and blow us all away??
Absolutely.
All of this is very flattering and thank you for the votes of confidence. I just want to get you thinking like Imagineers, that's all.
However, to be fair, it's not like this kind of forward thinking does not exist within today's WDI. We are blissfully blessed with the ignorance of the obstacles they face every day. As much as we want to wish it away, Disney is still a public company and within that structure it's very hard to make these kinds of things happen, and to get them funded you have to compromise the vision to a degree to please many masters. (Think Congress). So timing has lots to do what happens and how big. The economy makes it super tough right now.
Having said that, I believe that the WDI leadership (Bruce and Craig) is better now than it has ever been. I mean that. They have a great opportunity with Bob Iger, who is the most technologically passionate CEO since Walt. I mean that too. (Disney beat them all to iTunes. Disney has interactive Blu-ray and more.) Then you add Lassiter who is very involved. What they will finally do is anyone's guess, but I can tell you that the potential is truly there and so is the talent. Ideas like we discuss are the kinds of things they talk about and hope for every day at WDI. The parks have much to say about what goes in and there is only so much money. So compromise has to be an art form to maintain the big idea. Even in this meltdown economy, I'd rather bet on WDI than any other organization in the world. Do I love everything they do? No. (and so what? I don't love even half of the things I do). Do I ever doubt that Imagineers will do whatever it takes to try and blow us all away??
Absolutely.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
FYI- The turnaround time for a new attraction at WDI is more than several years, so this is one reason it is hard to be relevant , so you have pavilions that a display can change out without doing the whole attraction. The hard part with that is negotiating a sponsor, getting them to buy into a new idea and then design and production or their products. It's a tough sell. I'm not making excuses, but just giving you a sense of what the issues are. Setting the conceptual bar further out helps alot.
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