DisneyDellsDude
New Member
I think quite a few of us on this message board have a good shot.
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Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks
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jt04
Well-Known Member
I think quite a few of us on this message board have a good shot.
No doubt. Remember us when you get there. We at least want the tour.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
FYI posting your idea.
Most imagineers can't listen to and or look at ideas without creating the risk for themselves or the company of being sued. I don't read or actively look at unsolicited ideas without some kind of a Non disclosure agreement. It's an evil world out there. It makes it hard to show your wares.
Most imagineers can't listen to and or look at ideas without creating the risk for themselves or the company of being sued. I don't read or actively look at unsolicited ideas without some kind of a Non disclosure agreement. It's an evil world out there. It makes it hard to show your wares.
HMF
Well-Known Member
Kim Irvine would probably be a good choice. Eddie ' your restaurant is on Flower Street' the same Flower Street as WDI?
Boardwalk Joe's
New Member
Wow, his idea of Progress City is exactly what EPCOT should have been. Great interview, thanks for sharing!
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
No it's not, but you'd never know it, given all the Imagineering Alumni I run into out there. It's pretty fun to have so many friends come out and see us (Recent sightings of Michael Eisner, Marty Sklar, Tim Delaney, Eric Jacobson, Tom Morris, and Bob Weis to name a few) At times the bar can be quite fun with Tequila infused blue sky sessions. Some nights it has looked like a WDI hangout.
To finally answer your question... WDI is in Glendale and "Rivera" is in downtown Los Angeles in an new entertainment district called South Park across From Nokia Theater, Staples Center, and the Convention Center. (Not to be confused with the TV show). FYI- When we were doing Walt's Restaurant at DLP, I wanted it's MS address to be "1401 Flower" so it would be the same as Imagineering and guests could say they've been to 1401 Flower. I love that Rivera is a WDI "home away from home" and on Flower too (1050). Good call! You don't miss a thing!
Expo_Seeker40
Well-Known Member
Would it be inappropriate to upload jpeg files of my team's entry into the ImagiNations competition?:shrug: The only problem I see with it is that Disney now owns the rights to my team's work. :zipit: (Conglomo: We own you)
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Don't give up. Famous last words.
When I was a tween I called WED and told them I had an idea for a ride (60's pre legal issues).
They said "Anything you can think of... we have already thought of, so don't call back." Needless to say, I was crushed, but never gave up. It actually drove me to do more and prove to myself that I could think of something.
Never underestimate someone who overestimates themselves. Don't stop believing in what you can accomplish.
No doubt. Remember us when you get there. We at least want the tour.
When I was a tween I called WED and told them I had an idea for a ride (60's pre legal issues).
They said "Anything you can think of... we have already thought of, so don't call back." Needless to say, I was crushed, but never gave up. It actually drove me to do more and prove to myself that I could think of something.
Never underestimate someone who overestimates themselves. Don't stop believing in what you can accomplish.
whylightbulb
Well-Known Member
Too funny. I had a very similar experience before starting at WDI. A friend of mine set up a meeting with Tony Baxter at Disneyland. I was fresh out of high school and I was going to impress him with my ideas (I think this was just before all the legal issues manifested...way after the 60s though). He actually invited me to WDI the next week to meet him and pitch my ideas. He and his assistant sat there with the biggest grin on their faces as I poured my heart out. Tony took me aside and led me to the huge room full of models, illustrations and scripts. He told me that anything I could come up with had already been stored in this room somewhere. He said ideas were a dime a dozen and that if I wanted to get into WDI I should start thinking about things that would save money. I should come up with methods and concepts that were inexpensive and/or revenue generating ideas.
I never forgot that day and although I was crushed at the time, that advice prepared me to be truly successfull in this business.
Expo_Seeker40
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised they never implemented a Cocoanut Grove that could serve as the Hollywood version of "Hoopdie Doo Review" with hollywood skits and singers including special nights where there could be more romantic ensembles for upper teens and adults only.
disneykw
Member
Ouch. That's what Tony said? Sadly that's where we're at now, with practically every new ride tied to Disney characters.
It's funny. I don't think that's what Tony had in mind when he was designing Big Thunder.
I miss the old days, when WDI can go all out creative without thinking about tie-ins and create fantastic experiences like Epcot Center. Now granted I'm not a big fan of Everest, but we need more original rides like that around the parks. When Walt designed Disneyland, where were all the attractions tied to characters? Fantasyland. That's how he had it and that's how I'd like it again. I mean sure the park is called "Disney"land and so people expect Disney characters and to a certain extent, advertising. But what they've been doing lately is pushing it, to the point that even the stroller name tags have ads for upcoming dvds.:dazzle: I want to go to the parks to get away, not get countless ads stuffed down my throat.
I was actually thinking to myself today on the way to work (the park), what makes an attraction timeless? Do you think a ride like The Seas with Nemo & Friends will be a classic 20yrs from now? Of course not, what do rides like HM, Pirates (pre-refurb), ToT, Space Mt, Big Thunder, Jungle Cruise, Small World, and the original Subs have in common? No characters, which makes it that much easier to remain relevant into the future. Now granted I'm not saying we can't have any rides without characters. Splash is an exception and is a great experience. Toy Story Mania, although I'd rather if it wasn't a character-driven ride (cause I don't know how popular Toy Story would be say 10yrs from now), has high-replay value due to a fun and entertaining concept.
So yeah, I'm not saying no characters, but I'm saying more originality. Which is why I'm in the pool of people who want ideas like Mysterious Island and Stormrider to come stateside, as well as the addition of new lands like Beastly Kingdom. Whenever I'm walking around a park like TDS with all its original attractions and entertainment, I always think to myself just how popular these things would be if they were at WDW. Or if I'm watching a show like Electrical Parade Dreamlights, I can't help but wonder just how awesome it'd be to see them on the streets of MK. The parks, especially MK, needs anything new it can get, and I guess the thing that frustrates me sometimes are that there are great ideas and concepts that exist in the international parks that the US parks don't have, but could be brought over. For example, like how DLP got Fantillusion from TDL. Now of course taking ideas from other parks isn't always a good thing since the parks need their own individuality, but when you've got something like Spectro, that's been running for the most part since '91, it's a no brainer not to bring in a newer and grander parade from another park. WDW guests still love Spectro (don't get me wrong, I love it too) but WDW guests also don't know what they're missing. Because the guests still love the parade, management figures the guests are still happy, so they don't introduce new parades which leads to entertainment getting stale. Don't even get me started on CADCT.:fork:
Sorry to bother you guys with my huge rant, that quote just kind of ticked me off and I needed to get that out of my system.
whylightbulb, may I ask if you can share with us what you worked on when you were at WDI?
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Good idea
Seems like a good idea for a thread. Why don't you start it?
"Disney Nature" seems like a good new niche that could embrace the less branded aspects of a park. Is Nature timeless?
Seems like a good idea for a thread. Why don't you start it?
"Disney Nature" seems like a good new niche that could embrace the less branded aspects of a park. Is Nature timeless?
disneykw
Member
My idea was PoTC, but on steroids. Guests would travel on a lifeboat along the water (in doesn't make much sense because there would be no people on the ship, and why is the lifeboat heading back into the ship?) you see the first funnel, hear the groaning sound of metal; your lifeboat floats through the open windowframes of the promenade deck and into the A deck landing where water is cascading down the Grand Staircase, the lights flicker a bit, and you hear the sound of the funnel collapsing and then a deluge of water (Catastrophe Canyon style) pouring out through the dome and spraying guests in the lifeboat.
The only experience I have in environment work is concepting environment ad spaces as a Jr. Art Director...but I hope to movie onto bigger things.
Even though my team didn't make it into the finals for the 2009 ImagiNations Contest, we are waiting to hear who the finalists were in this year's competition before we decide what we will do for next year....if we go with one of our initial ideas.... guests may be encountering the Gods of Mt. Olympus
Expo_Seeker, just curious, did you draw up any concept art to accompany your idea, cause that's what companies like WDI love to see, unless you want to go for a show writer position I guess.
I really wanted to do the ImagiNations Contest especially while I was in college, since naturally WDI is where I wanted to work. Heck, I would have gone all out with concept art, scale miniatures, paintings, and 3D renderings. But the story goes that since it's a "contest" I'm ineligible cause I'm a Disney CM. So, what if I quit Disney? I still wouldn't be able to take part cause my brother's a Disney CM. Believe me, I was really bummed out when I read that. On the other hand, if I did get into WDI, I'd want to get in by working myself up. Do you think the ImagiNations winners are guaranteed a career at WDI? Heck, no. Just give them the grand tour, give them a chance to cooperate on some projects and then kick'em out when you want. ImagiNations isn't how you start a career at WDI, a step in the door maybe, but that's about it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from the sound of it, it's mostly Publicity.
disneykw
Member
I actually think Disney Nature is a good idea cause I tend to be an environmentalist. You should listen to the arguments I have with people about the future of eco-friendly cars.:lol: If they can partner Disney Nature with Disney Wildlife Conservation, that'd be nothing but a benefit for the company. Being green is a hot thing nowadays with many companies getting involved, and it does a lot towards a company's image. Do I think "Disney Nature" ads should be strung up in Jungle Cruise's queue, Heck NO. But do I think "Disney Nature" should inspire more conservation-friendly initiatives in the park, YES.
As for their latest movie, I can't say much. "Earth", or whatever they call it seems like from all the trailers I've seen that it's a repackaged version of "Planet Earth", the epic mini-series that I LOVE on Discovery Channel (I own all the DVDs from BBC.
) So naturally (no pun intended, ha ha) I wouldn't pay Disney money just to see a shortened version on the screen. If they continue the brand to include new and exclusive nature films, like they did with True-Life Adventures way back when, I would go and see them, yes.
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
It's not just Imagineering ... I'm in a similar situation with my own creative enterprise and it is very tough to pitch these days ... you're afraid that your idea/concept will get stolen, but if you don't pitch it, then it ain't gonna happen. Lucky I at least know a few honorable people ...
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
That's funny coming from Tony. He's very good at spending money (not that I usually find fault with his results!)
Sadly, I don't get the idea Tony will be doing very much at DL before he winds up being pushed into retirement. I have heard he has lot of 'plans' for T-Land in Anaheim but I just don't see any rush to spend money on any parks that aren't abbreviated with DCA or owned by another company.
BTW, anyone know who has been heading the design work on Shanghai?
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Thank you!:lol::sohappy: I'm so glad that people (especially WDI people) are like minded.
Expo_Seeker40
Well-Known Member
DisnkeyKW :wave: I don't have concept art for the Titanic idea, but I do have concept art from my recent ImagiNations competition as well as a 9/11 Memorial I designed and got feedback on and a certificate from 2002/3. I proposed a before and after exhibit at the NYS Museum in Albany. Unforunately now, the Museum building is maxed out for square footage, but at the time, I proposed a mockup of one of the lobby's of the WTC showing guests the "life" of the complex with display cases and other features scattered throughout....matte paintings would be behind the window frames to give the effect of depth. Then guests would enter the lobby in ruins with large (fiberglass) columns and destruction, smoke/fog effects, and workman lights....to show the utter destruction of the complex.
I'll send letters out to WDI (what's the worst they're gonna say: NO EXPO :lookaroun). I'll have to see the best ways to manicure my portfolio...everything is done online these days...heck many of my professors don't even expect us to have a physical portfolio book anymore. I know two peers that got an interview with a creative director, brought their books, and he just looked at their work via their websites. :lookaroun
I'll send letters out to WDI (what's the worst they're gonna say: NO EXPO :lookaroun). I'll have to see the best ways to manicure my portfolio...everything is done online these days...heck many of my professors don't even expect us to have a physical portfolio book anymore. I know two peers that got an interview with a creative director, brought their books, and he just looked at their work via their websites. :lookaroun
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Tony's portfolio (i.e. DLP) shows that he is most interested in a great show. I learned most of what I know today in attraction design from Tony. He hired me into WDI. While our sensibilities may differ, we respect the same rules and each other.
When I read your experience I saw the wisdom in Tony's comments beyond the sting you may have felt. What he used to tell me is that if you want your project to get built you have to "fill a need". It does not mean to restrain your blue sky dreams, just that the odds are in your favor to build them if you address the company priorities first. When I was working for him down at DL in the early 90's, it was super grim. Attendance was flat. The only "Imagineering" to be done was in damage control, preventing them from removing rides to save labor (Subs, Skyway,Tahitian Terrace), not building new ones. So the only creativity required at that time was to redirect existing funds that they were to spend anyway on a rehab or practical improvement (widening walkways, etc) into a new idea. There was no new money for dreams. So Tony taught me to look for places and "needs" that were already justified in the minds of those who spend it, and create where the opportunity lies. BTMRR came out of a percieved "need" to win in the eyes of marketing to fight the coaster wars with Knott's and Six Flags in the mid seventies.
So it's true, that there are far more ideas than there are places to put them (so most are in drawers) and what we should take from Tony's direction, is that he really didn't mean to "think cheap" (as if his dreams ever were!), but if you want to get something built, fill a "need" that will move your idea to the top of the list right away.
True story. When I started at Knott's, the Ride I sold to get my job (Flash Flood Rapids) was shelved the first month and my boss told me the "Motorcycle Chase" ride was generating lawsuits because of its unsafe center of gravity, causing people to fall off the bikes. I came back that day with lower bobsled type design calling it a "Soap Box Racer" and it sold that week! So I had my first ride in production in less than 6 months. I could have insisted on my bigger $$$$$ idea that may have been their "Pirates" scale show, but instead sold the one that "removed the thorn" from the Knott family's wallet and got it built within a year. Was it lavish? NO. Was I that happy with it? NO. Did I learn how to build rides after selling washers at SEARS in 6 months? YES!! did it do well? YES! It opened to 110% of the gate, meaning people rode it over and over and I still get mail about it to this day.
Did my bigger idea ever get built? Sadly no. It did not fill a need. (This has not stopped me from dreaming the biggest things I can, but I'm realistic about their odds of execution)
Like my phone call experience, and your visit to WDI, rejection hurts no matter how you slice it. But it hurts worse when you spend years on ideas that don't happen (I've spent 30). Tony gave us all some sound advice that judging by the room full of ideas like "Discovery Bay", he as had more than his own share of rejection. But the models still stand ready, waiting patiently for the right need, or they get sucked into other projects (Discoveryland in DLP has many elements from Discovery Bay and so does TDS, the fated DLP MS El Train is there too!). Tony NEVER gives up and makes getting something funded an art in itself even if it takes a decade. Filling needs with the resources you're given is much tougher and sometimes gets mixed results, but we're usually better off for it. That's what makes him Tony, he loves it all too much to jump the ship (like I did), and we have that to be very thankful for.
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