Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Omnispace]

Nothing quite like suburban sprawl named for a backlot facility built at a place that was intended to be a beacon of urbanism but right outside its enabling legislation. Celebration at least had the forward thinking infrastructure, pedestrian oriented design and the involvement of names other than Disney with the starchitects. A car oriented subdivision is exactly what EPCOT was responding against.

No doubt this is all going to be nicely executed but other than the location and exclusiveness of it all I really wonder what is actually special or unique about this new development. You are correct that it reinforces the notions of suburban sprawl. They could have at least done something more interesting and create a village out of the layout. If they wanted to take it to the extreme it could have been a Fantasyland-style vilage with a mix of Tudor dwellings, though perhaps the demographic they are seeking is not that imaginative. There is a development not far from me where they attempted to make a neighborhood based on the character of Thomas Kinkade's paintings. Unfortunately, it was not fully successful in it's realization -- but intriguing ideas like that are more like what one would expect to find at WDW.

 

[Radok Block]

It's better. It does not require 5 clicks to find out how to navigate somewhere.
It's interesting to note that the EPCOT iOS7 "icons" are so vague that you need additional "flat buttons" below in text to explain what they are. Very 2013 Apple for sure.

I loved the pavilion logos as a kid. I didn't think they were vague; I made a point to memorize the 'secret code.' It was like another layer of interaction with the park and the logos made sense as representations of the pavilion themes (the zooming globe, the radiating sun). I wish they hadn't translated them on that sign!

 

[RandySavage]

I loved the pavilion logos as a kid. I didn't think they were vague; I made a point to memorize the 'secret code.' It was like another layer of interaction with the park and the logos made sense as representations of the pavilion themes (the zooming globe, the radiating sun). I wish they hadn't translated them on that sign!

Those original EPCOT logos are one of the best examples of graphic design I have ever come across. But Eddie is right in that if you're seeing them for the first time, they don't instantly spell out which pavilion is which.

I think the above post hits on why they resonate so much with me to this day. As noted, the iconography did indeed communicate the pavilions without words, but in a more subtle way. They weren't dumbed down. It was a simple code/language to decipher on your own and once you took the time to do so, you unlocked another layer to Future World - and were rewarded for the effort of approaching the park a little deeper.

 

[Omnispace]

Those original EPCOT logos are one of the best examples of graphic design I have ever come across. But Eddie is right in that if you're seeing them for the first time, they don't instantly spell out which pavilion is which.

I think the above post hits on why they resonate so much with me to this day. As noted, the iconography did indeed communicate the pavilions without words, but in a more subtle way. They weren't dumbed down. It was a simple code/language to decipher on your own and once you took the time to do so, you unlocked another layer to Future World - and were rewarded for the effort of approaching the park a little deeper.

Good points! And just the fact that EPCOT Center used these logos to identify the different pavilions brought everything together in concept. The park could be conceived of as a whole with the different attractions supporting it's overall purpose.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I agree with your comment, I think it's more a matter of finding what is appropriate for the message you want to convey. To use Eddie's signs of Main Street example: part of telling the story of what's inside each shop can be conveyed by the type of sign outside. The Barber Shop won't necessarily have a special hand-carved relief sign with gold-leaf lettering but the Jewelers might since it's their business to have a bit of a flair. If every sign is exquisitely crafted then not only are you not portraying an accurate character for each store, you are also making the "special" signs less special -- and in some cases, like the example of the drink menu, actually defeating your intended purpose.

Signs are a big deal. Which roadside stand would you perceive had fresher strawberries, the one with an elaborate animated "Fresh Strawberries" neon sign, or the one with a giant handpainted strawberry with black scrawled letters on cardboard?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Those original EPCOT logos are one of the best examples of graphic design I have ever come across. But Eddie is right in that if you're seeing them for the first time, they don't instantly spell out which pavilion is which.

I think the above post hits on why they resonate so much with me to this day. As noted, the iconography did indeed communicate the pavilions without words, but in a more subtle way. They weren't dumbed down. It was a simple code/language to decipher on your own and once you took the time to do so, you unlocked another layer to Future World - and were rewarded for the effort of approaching the park a little deeper.

In many cases you saw them in sight of the actual pavilion, so it was not like they were entirely abstract.

 

[MinnieM123]

Poster child of "everything is special". Note the "flotilla" of ornament surrounding the soft drink information on the sign. If you can find the type in there among the microscopic logos. Even if the paper card within was slid down, the problem still exists. I'm not gonna get into the generic base that is now made more obvious given the frame. The existence/price of drinks is important, perhaps the number one thing to the guest, but you can't find it as the type is buried and below eye level. As you can see, this is when the "details" existing for their own sake create a misguided sense of emphasis. Surely a simpler sign where the type is functionally larger and the detail simpler in support of the message would have been just fine.
View attachment 37246

I don't think the people (or individual) who designed the sign ever heard the expression, "less is more" . . . Even though I'm not an artist, my eyes are always drawn to understated, elegant design. The result is a stronger impression and better conveys the message.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Tomorrow is an interesting day as the new iPad Air comes out. I accidentally dropped my old 1G iPad down a flight of stairs today and watched it bounce and carom all the way down, silently hoping something bad would happen to it, giving me an excuse to tell my wife that I'm running out to get the new one tomorrow. It was in perfect condition. Rats. Competing with that Apple event is Tony Baxter getting his well deserved window on Main Street. I hope it's not above Starbucks! The ceremony is at 8:30AM and I think the park is open around 9 so anyone can watch. (Maybe I should "lose" my iPad at the event?) I'm excited to support this, as it will be fun to see him get that overdue tribute. If you are around it might be fun to shake his hand and say hello. Congrats to Tony….

 

[Eddie Sotto]

So it's been a long time since we logged on in 2009, and I think I've answered most questions at least once, or at least tried. So after thinking it over, I have decided to leave on a high note and make this the last day of the thread. Time to lock up. November 1st is upon us. Thank you all so much for so many great discussions and contributions, but right now I need an "intermission", so as Tony opens a new "window" on Main Street and I think we will close this "window" on wdwmagic after many great exchanges. Again, thanks to you all for a great ride of over a million hits and more than 500 pages. You made history! Maybe I will pop up again sometime, who knows? You can always stop by sottostudios.com and see what we are up to.

As Marty says, "Dream it! Do it!" Thanks again! Eddie

 

[Nemo14]

Thanks Eddie for such interesting posts. We'll certainly miss you!

 

[Knothead]

Thanks for all your time Eddie. We will miss you!

 

[cosmicray]

Thanks, Eddie!

 

[wdwmagic]

So it's been a long time since we logged on in 2009, and I think I've answered most questions at least once, or at least tried. So after thinking it over, I have decided to leave on a high note and make this the last day of the thread. Time to lock up. November 1st is upon us. Thank you all so much for so many great discussions and contributions, but right now I need an "intermission", so as Tony opens a new "window" on Main Street and I think we will close this "window" on wdwmagic after many great exchanges. Again, thanks to you all for a great ride of over a million hits and more than 500 pages. You made history! Maybe I will pop up again sometime, who knows? You can always stop by sottostudios.com and see what we are up to.

As Marty says, "Dream it! Do it!" Thanks again! Eddie

Thanks for all your contributions to the forum Eddie. It has been fascinating reading, and I know a lot of readers will be sad to see you go.

Not only did the two threads notch up 1 million posts, but during all of that discussion I didn't have to do any moderating - this says a lot about the quality of the posts and the respect everyone has for you.

We all certainly do hope to see you pop back up again - you are always very welcome here on WDWMAGIC.

 

[donaldtoo]

I absolutely LOVE this discussion!
I've been designing architecture for well over 30 years now and the differences in clients needs based on project needs/wants is quite diverse. For instance, a single family residence with major involvement by the client vs. a multifamily project mostly dictated by the contractor vs. a whole office building (contractor) vs. the space planning in that office building (occupant), etc.
In your case you're pretty much having to anticipate what your "client" wants, but in our case, we're pretty much trying to flow with the client to meet their needs. They bring us a puzzle, we put the pieces together, and we come up with solutions to the unforeseen problems that they didn't anticipate and other suggestions that make their vision way more fantastic than they EVER thought it could be.

 

[dreamscometrue]

Before this thread gets locked, I just wanted to say "Thanks" for all your insight. I only personally asked a few questions, but you always took the time for an insightful, well thought out, detailed answer, which was always respectful of anyone with whom the question dealt. Many of us on here can learn from that manner of online conversation and decorum, which most of us lose from time to time. Cheers.

 

[Omnispace]

Thanks Eddie! It has been a great thread - so many wonderful discussions! I hope that WDWMagic keeps the thread easily available so that others can read all that has gone on here.

 

[Figments Friend]

Eddie, you will be missed.
Your threads here were quite entertaining and insightful.
I really enjoyed your stories related to working with Tony, and your own experiences working on Disneyland Paris.

Many thanks again for those moments!

"when one window closes, another one opens...." !

 

[Wikkler]

Thanks Eddie for all the good anecdotes.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Eddie, you are awesome. Thanks your contributions. Take care!

 

[RandySavage]

This thread is the only message board area (I know of) where there is consistently a high-level, intellectual discussion regarding design, architecture, etc. I really hope this is only an intermission. Here's to Act III beginning some time down the road.