Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

flynnibus

Premium Member
A large part of the stroller boom is how much junk people insist on taking with them everywhere. People who are marginal on strollers won't give them up because they like the 'storage' the stroller gives them.. so they don't have to actually carry anything.

If Disney made their package pickup a bit more known and well used.. maybe that would cut back on the need as well.
 

krash9924

Member
Another thought on stroller, what about the change from the ticket system to the passport system? It seems that, especially with price increases, there is more incentive to "Get your money's worth" which makes waiting for the kid a less desirable scenario. Whereas before you paid a small admission and for what you experienced. To get the full value of your ticket book you had to do the smaller, slower attractions which filled the physical space between the E-Tickets, versus running back and forth across the park to get to your next FastPass or dining reservation. And if the kid got too tired early, your tickets were not wasted, they could be banked for another day.

My 3 yr is a slow walker but hates strollers, like screams and kicks and acts like someone is killing her if we put her in one. Almost all day she is on my shoulders which makes for a hard day on me but an enjoyable one as well because we get to share the parks together so much. We used to bring a stroller to collect purchases in but now we leave it at home and buy what we want at the end of the day. (We usually spend less this way as well)

Disney pushing merchandise so much to me has caused a lot of the issues. We always see people pushing strollers around the parks not with kids in them but bags of Disney goodies.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
My 3 yr is a slow walker but hates strollers, like screams and kicks and acts like someone is killing her if we put her in one. Almost all day she is on my shoulders which makes for a hard day on me but an enjoyable one as well because we get to share the parks together so much. We used to bring a stroller to collect purchases in but now we leave it at home and buy what we want at the end of the day. (We usually spend less this way as well)

Disney pushing merchandise so much to me has caused a lot of the issues. We always see people pushing strollers around the parks not with kids in them but bags of Disney goodies.

Ahh how the world has changed! Leaving the Stroller at home saves some cash, no? I've found leaving the kid at home saves even more!
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Magic was possible.

This image on Daveland just makes me feel really good. 72 degrees in August, I can hear the hydraulic hiss of the
Rocket Jets coming down, the boom of the fireworks, and the echoes of the "Sunshine Balloon" on the Coke Terrace Stage. Click it bigger and see if it works for you.
 

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Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Honey, I shrunk the Stroller

I finally found this on Daveland. The lone Stroller. So hard to find them. The kid must have shrunk to death in Monsanto.
 

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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
You don't need to be first at something.. just more desirable :)
Yep. People go on about Apple's innovation, but when one looks at their model it is much more of a slow and steady than a full speed ahead. Apple has never really done anything first except maybe the iTunes store. Instead it is more about taking your time and meticulously putting everything together. In that way the company is very much like Walt Disney Productions, taking things that existed but finely crafting them into a quality product that people desire and builds a strong brand.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Ironic Jobs basically stole his OS and the mouse from a corporate giant(Xerox), was almost crushed by a corporate giant(IBM) who really was the builder of the small computer market and in the end they are the corporate giant. LOL. They even branched into music the land of another giant (Sony) and killed them at their own game. Walkman bye bye. As record store chains failed Apple was there again with Itunes another giant gone. You could say Apple is like BSAF, they don't make products they make them better. LOL. The once unbeatable Crackberry didn't take long to be crushed by the Iphone but the other big players were ready to go after the Iphone and have with good success, think Android.

I hope they go into theme parks.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Yep. People go on about Apple's innovation, but when one looks at their model it is much more of a slow and steady than a full speed ahead. Apple has never really done anything first except maybe the iTunes store. Instead it is more about taking your time and meticulously putting everything together. In that way the company is very much like Walt Disney Productions, taking things that existed but finely crafting them into a quality product that people desire and builds a strong brand.

Amazon is another good example of extreme long term thinking. they lost money for years but eventually captured their market. Disney was built the same way with the eye toward quality and innovation over profits. It's amazing how much WDP struggled over the years and barely made it.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Hi Eddie ... just a few notes on what you've been talking 'bout of late.

First, interesting to see the stroller topic finally come up here. Usually it comes up on other threads and folks get nasty and accuse others of either hating kids or being lazy parents etc.

I will say it's always more pleasant to visit any non-WDW Disney park as none come close to the stroller (and ECV) issue that you see in O-Town. Double wides ramming your feet, being pushed through shops, knocking over merchandise and making wide walkways into congested sidewalk-like paths.

My first day at HKDL in 2008 I was just amazed at the Chinese way of rearing children (one I believe is better for all and certainly better than pushing around kids that look ready for training bras as they devour turkey legs and burger baskets). If a child was old enough to walk, they did. Just that simple. On a busy, hot summer day I took two pics (which I'll post if I ever find the time) of stroller parking areas. One in front of City Hall had NO strollers at all. The other across from Small World had 3-4 small single ones.

I don't know what the answer is both socially and from a design standpoint, but I think Disney is erring on the side of making $$$ off of renting as many of these things as they can and it really lowers the park-going experience for the rest of us.

As to Hugo, I finally saw it yesterday and thought it was a wonderful, whimsical and sometimes wacky film with loads of heart and great lensing. After seeing it, my brother turned to me and said 'why isn't Disney making films like this?' ... I didn't have a good answer beyond they see more potential in things like Marvel.

Finally, I'll be headed over to DLP in May to celebrate the 20th and the amazing park you and Tony's team created. Really looking forward to being back for the first time in two years and seeing the new Disney Dreams show at night.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Hi Eddie ... just a few notes on what you've been talking 'bout of late.

First, interesting to see the stroller topic finally come up here. Usually it comes up on other threads and folks get nasty and accuse others of either hating kids or being lazy parents etc.

I will say it's always more pleasant to visit any non-WDW Disney park as none come close to the stroller (and ECV) issue that you see in O-Town. Double wides ramming your feet, being pushed through shops, knocking over merchandise and making wide walkways into congested sidewalk-like paths.

My first day at HKDL in 2008 I was just amazed at the Chinese way of rearing children (one I believe is better for all and certainly better than pushing around kids that look ready for training bras as they devour turkey legs and burger baskets). If a child was old enough to walk, they did. Just that simple. On a busy, hot summer day I took two pics (which I'll post if I ever find the time) of stroller parking areas. One in front of City Hall had NO strollers at all. The other across from Small World had 3-4 small single ones.

I don't know what the answer is both socially and from a design standpoint, but I think Disney is erring on the side of making $$$ off of renting as many of these things as they can and it really lowers the park-going experience for the rest of us.

As to Hugo, I finally saw it yesterday and thought it was a wonderful, whimsical and sometimes wacky film with loads of heart and great lensing. After seeing it, my brother turned to me and said 'why isn't Disney making films like this?' ... I didn't have a good answer beyond they see more potential in things like Marvel.

Finally, I'll be headed over to DLP in May to celebrate the 20th and the amazing park you and Tony's team created. Really looking forward to being back for the first time in two years and seeing the new Disney Dreams show at night.

Good insights. Thanks for sharing those Stroller perspectives. Good to hear from you.

BTW (Hugo kinda Spoiler). The only thing about Hugo was that no train comes barreling into a dead ended station like that. They creep all the way in. The kid was only 10 feet from where it was going to naturally have to stop. Ridiculous. Otherwise very well done.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I used to agree on the Apple needs BluRay so i got an external drive. Now I'm thinking that there are so many ways to get HD content streaming that I'm less likely to need it. I already have software that converts my Blu-ray DVDs to H264 and it looks great.

If it's streaming, or even straight from digital cable, it's not true 1080p HD.

That said, many people claim they cannot see the difference between a DVD and a Blu-ray, but you can slap "HD" on anything that has the proper resolution - but that doesn't mean anything about the quality of the compression. A 2-hour movie needs 20-30 GB to be properly 1080p, and the small compressed files people download or stream blow up to 1080p, but the quality of the data is far worse.

Apple is never going to take over visual content like they did audio. Audio was ripe for it - they were the first legit music marketplace to become mainstream and get buzz, as it was an industry that did not exist and they had a complementary product to go along with it.

Then Apple got the fact that they could make a ton of money on players, but they could make giga-tons of cash by controlling the content. They failed at controlling TV content before, and I have a feeling whatever new TV device they come out with will land with just as much of a resounding thud.

The difference with TV/video is that they don't have a new product or a new market. They just are trying to control content for the sake of it without a compelling reason for consumers to allow them to do so as they did with audio. People do not want yet another device in their living rooms. People are quite literally out of connections and electrical outlets, and the psychological, "I don't want another box" is pretty strong when there is fierce competition out there that is already installed in your living room (a TiVo, XBOX, even a Blu-ray player etc. can bring you Amazon on Demand, Netflix, Hulu).

The only way Apple could begin to make it work would be to allow their content to be shown on all those devices we already have, and they will never do that - and even if they did, they still face the same competition which is already on those devices. Then they just become yet another vendor in the growing field of vying for your digital content delivery.

They missed the boat on revolutionizing TV. It's already been done by the DVR, and TiVo in particular. And while the TiVo is a much more powerful device, the generic DVR took over. In the MP3 realm, sure, a few MP3 players were out there, Apple didn't make the first - but they made the best and got it out there before most consumers even knew it was a product category. They became Kleenex - so identified with the product (tissues vs. MP3 players) that people even call non-Apple devices "iPods".

TV just isn't the same. And truth be told, bandwidth has been there awhile now. Video On Demand has been out in one form or another for 20 years (I remember watching "The Bodyguard" on demand back when I had to call the cable company to order it (and, like, talk to a person). We've been at the point for quite a number of years now that it's there, it's available, single purchase or streaming, and yet Blu-ray sales keep going up and up.

It will be interesting to see if they come up with anything truly new, or if it's just going to be yet another service among many. I expect there will be some little "Siri"-type "game changer" that gets people all riled up and then once the novelty wears off (you are already seeing articles about people who realized it's kind of idiotic to talk to your phone when you can do what you want faster with your fingers, and without looking silly talking to a virtual woman).

TV is safe and secure from total domination, thankfully.
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Eddie,

We have been discussing parking in a different thread. What is your take on the parking fees? Is Disney "nickle and dimeing" us on this? Is the parking fee really necessary? Is the fee just a ploy by Disney to make the stay onsite and/or passholder more palatable by not charging for parking privileges? So many places offer complimentary parking, why not Disney?
 

thehowiet

Wilson King of Prussia
If it's streaming, or even straight from digital cable, it's not true 1080p HD.

That said, many people claim they cannot see the difference between a DVD and a Blu-ray, but you can slap "HD" on anything that has the proper resolution - but that doesn't mean anything about the quality of the compression. A 2-hour movie needs 20-30 GB to be properly 1080p, and the small compressed files people download or stream blow up to 1080p, but the quality of the data is far worse.

Apple is never going to take over visual content like they did audio. Audio was ripe for it - they were the first legit music marketplace to become mainstream and get buzz, as it was an industry that did not exist and they had a complementary product to go along with it.

Then Apple got the fact that they could make a ton of money on players, but they could make giga-tons of cash by controlling the content. They failed at controlling TV content before, and I have a feeling whatever new TV device they come out with will land with just as much of a resounding thud.

The difference with TV/video is that they don't have a new product or a new market. They just are trying to control content for the sake of it without a compelling reason for consumers to allow them to do so as they did with audio. People do not want yet another device in their living rooms. People are quite literally out of connections and electrical outlets, and the psychological, "I don't want another box" is pretty strong when there is fierce competition out there that is already installed in your living room (a TiVo, XBOX, even a Blu-ray player etc. can bring you Amazon on Demand, Netflix, Hulu).

The only way Apple could begin to make it work would be to allow their content to be shown on all those devices we already have, and they will never do that - and even if they did, they still face the same competition which is already on those devices. Then they just become yet another vendor in the growing field of vying for your digital content delivery.

They missed the boat on revolutionizing TV. It's already been done by the DVR, and TiVo in particular. And while the TiVo is a much more powerful device, the generic DVR took over. In the MP3 realm, sure, a few MP3 players were out there, Apple didn't make the first - but they made the best and got it out there before most consumers even knew it was a product category. They became Kleenex - so identified with the product (tissues vs. MP3 players) that people even call non-Apple devices "iPods".

TV just isn't the same. And truth be told, bandwidth has been there awhile now. Video On Demand has been out in one form or another for 20 years (I remember watching "The Bodyguard" on demand back when I had to call the cable company to order it (and, like, talk to a person). We've been at the point for quite a number of years now that it's there, it's available, single purchase or streaming, and yet Blu-ray sales keep going up and up.

It will be interesting to see if they come up with anything truly new, or if it's just going to be yet another service among many. I expect there will be some little "Siri"-type "game changer" that gets people all riled up and then once the novelty wears off (you are already seeing articles about people who realized it's kind of idiotic to talk to your phone when you can do what you want faster with your fingers, and without looking silly talking to a virtual woman).

TV is safe and secure from total domination, thankfully.

I disagree on some of these points. I am on the other side that believes that visual content is indeed ripe for the taking. In my opinion, we are starting to see the beginning of the end of the set-top cable tv box, DVD, and Blu-Ray. These three delivery mechanisms are outdated and a waste of physical resources and space. The reason Blu-Ray keeps growing is because there isn't one all encompassing service out there yet that has given people another equivalent option. Sure there is Netflix streaming and other similar services, but there isn't one that provides a one stop shop for the customer similar to iTunes.

For the most part, you can get any song you would ever want through iTunes. There isn't really one service like that yet for visual content, so in my opinion it's just a matter of time until someone steps in and makes that a reality. There really is no need for a cable box or physical media any more with the Internet and cloud storage. Already when you buy a Blu-Ray they give you a code so you can stream that movie from the cloud to your computer. Eventually you will just be purchasing full-time access to that movie with the capability of streaming that movie directly to your TV whenever you want. This is where Apple, or another service provider comes in. Instead of going to Best Buy to purchase the physical media, you'll have access to all of the movies you've ever purchased via your TV in your virtual movie library (just like your iTunes library).

This will go even further than just on demand movies where Apple could become the equivalent of the cable TV provider as well, without all of the unnecessary hardware and only requiring a TV with wifi to connect to the Apple TV service via the Internet. Eventually companies like Verizon and Xfinity may only be needed to provide you with access to the Internet, then Apple or another service provider will supply the services necessary to watch the movies in your virtual movie collection and/or your network and premium channels.

This isn't something that will happen over night, but I believe we are beginning to see a paradigm shift in the way visual content is delivered, accessed, consumed, and stored.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
If it's streaming, or even straight from digital cable, it's not true 1080p HD.

That said, many people claim they cannot see the difference between a DVD and a Blu-ray, but you can slap "HD" on anything that has the proper resolution - but that doesn't mean anything about the quality of the compression. A 2-hour movie needs 20-30 GB to be properly 1080p, and the small compressed files people download or stream blow up to 1080p, but the quality of the data is far worse.

Apple is never going to take over visual content like they did audio. Audio was ripe for it - they were the first legit music marketplace to become mainstream and get buzz, as it was an industry that did not exist and they had a complementary product to go along with it.

Then Apple got the fact that they could make a ton of money on players, but they could make giga-tons of cash by controlling the content. They failed at controlling TV content before, and I have a feeling whatever new TV device they come out with will land with just as much of a resounding thud.

The difference with TV/video is that they don't have a new product or a new market. They just are trying to control content for the sake of it without a compelling reason for consumers to allow them to do so as they did with audio. People do not want yet another device in their living rooms. People are quite literally out of connections and electrical outlets, and the psychological, "I don't want another box" is pretty strong when there is fierce competition out there that is already installed in your living room (a TiVo, XBOX, even a Blu-ray player etc. can bring you Amazon on Demand, Netflix, Hulu).

The only way Apple could begin to make it work would be to allow their content to be shown on all those devices we already have, and they will never do that - and even if they did, they still face the same competition which is already on those devices. Then they just become yet another vendor in the growing field of vying for your digital content delivery.

They missed the boat on revolutionizing TV. It's already been done by the DVR, and TiVo in particular. And while the TiVo is a much more powerful device, the generic DVR took over. In the MP3 realm, sure, a few MP3 players were out there, Apple didn't make the first - but they made the best and got it out there before most consumers even knew it was a product category. They became Kleenex - so identified with the product (tissues vs. MP3 players) that people even call non-Apple devices "iPods".

TV just isn't the same. And truth be told, bandwidth has been there awhile now. Video On Demand has been out in one form or another for 20 years (I remember watching "The Bodyguard" on demand back when I had to call the cable company to order it (and, like, talk to a person). We've been at the point for quite a number of years now that it's there, it's available, single purchase or streaming, and yet Blu-ray sales keep going up and up.

It will be interesting to see if they come up with anything truly new, or if it's just going to be yet another service among many. I expect there will be some little "Siri"-type "game changer" that gets people all riled up and then once the novelty wears off (you are already seeing articles about people who realized it's kind of idiotic to talk to your phone when you can do what you want faster with your fingers, and without looking silly talking to a virtual woman).

TV is safe and secure from total domination, thankfully.

Well said and good insights for sure. I know about the "poser" aspects of 720 vs 1080p HD claims, but I think for most people it depends on what they're watching it on and the quality of the movie itself. We have 2 Apple TV2's and like them now that the net is connected directly. We have a Wii and that's it. Airplay is compelling as I use that at the office. The iPhone/PodTouch has become a huge gaming device that once mirrored on the TV may be an advantage for them. They are trying to simplify it all and I'm lazy so I bypass Netflix and just search iTunes but they are limited. I'm anxious to see what Apple does this week with their supposed TV and iPad Retina Screen releases. Your thoughts about about the market in media being different than music, and Apple's timing into it is thought provoking too. Siri borders on false advertising and is a feature that is incredibly frustrating. I know why they called it a "beta" feature. It lives up to that. My recent take on Apple features is that they are beginning to jump their own shark.

To me, the biggest thing is watching an independently made HD feature on Youtube or Vimeo that you produced yourself and not needing a studio to distribute it. The playing field is being leveled in a new way. We are living in a very interesting time when your phone can do low end HD and you can edit it all in Final Cut. The Hollywood wall has fallen for artists.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
This will go even further than just on demand movies where Apple could become the equivalent of the cable TV provider as well, without all of the unnecessary hardware and only requiring a TV with wifi to connect to the Apple TV service via the Internet. Eventually companies like Verizon and Xfinity may only be needed to provide you with access to the Internet, then Apple or another service provider will supply the services necessary to watch the movies in your virtual movie collection and/or your network and premium channels.

This isn't something that will happen over night, but I believe we are beginning to see a paradigm shift in the way visual content is delivered, accessed, consumed, and stored.

I think this is where tech companies want everything to go. They want everything you own on their "cloud" so they can rent the storage of it all back to you though a simple interface, TV or device wherever you are. The media play is bigger than TV IMO. It's moving pretty fast. People talk about being dependent on the government, in time you can become more dependent on the Clouds and the providers who assure the safety of your digital cash and assets.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Eddie,

We have been discussing parking in a different thread. What is your take on the parking fees? Is Disney "nickle and dimeing" us on this? Is the parking fee really necessary? Is the fee just a ploy by Disney to make the stay onsite and/or passholder more palatable by not charging for parking privileges? So many places offer complimentary parking, why not Disney?

I'm not up to speed on all the parking fees. I know from DL experience that they charge 15 bucks, which is about what you can pay to go to a ballgame, and my first impression is that I'm getting ripped off so look out. If it were my brand decision, I'd look at some fees and items that you want to keep at a low margin to build goodwill and make money elsewhere. Find a few "feel good" items and promote that. I'd never gouge for Popcorn or Parking. "Disneyland, where a Popcorn is always a buck". I'd charge like 8 to park, I don't expect free, but I do trust Disney and part of that is to be reasonable. A good host is that way. I guess everyone has their own opinion of what fair is. Pre-Eisner, the parks were never cheap, but reasonable, and they jacked prices up as high as they could. Just because other venues rip you off is not an excuse for you to do the same. The DDP attempts to package the pricing and I guess that's good. It's also supply and demand and when you're packed every day they can argue that they can price things as they please.

If you compare value per hour, Disney parks actually produce an outstanding value compared to Movie Theaters. Especially if you're a frequent AP. I guess the parking is one of the only ways at DL to make any money off the AP's once they are in the black.

There is a cumulative negative effect on an Adult when you are constantly dinged for extras that erodes the fun. Movie theaters are criminal for what they charge and I resent my family loading up on all that stuff. Then there are all the confusing combo/package deals and upsells to larger sizes they try and sell you that eat up time at the counter and slow down the line. Frustrating. You just want to get into the theater. In the end, all of that gouging at the movies will hurt them as the home theater gets better.
 

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