Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
RSoxNo1 said:
This came up on conversation last night, How many attractions based on movies actually tell the same story of that movie?

The Fantasyland dark rides do to a certain extent, but outside of the soon to open Under the Sea: Journey of the Little Mermaid, how many really tell the story?
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Which ones based on movies DON'T? It's actually one of my biggest disappointments with rides like Nemo (at both EPCOT and DL). The movie leaves a perfect setup... you have well defined characters that can stand on their own in difference place settings... and all we get is a rehash of the movie. EPCOT could have easily taken the 'school' aspect shown in the movie.. and DL's is even more forced.

I guess I see it as 'attractions built to retell the story' vs 'attractions tied to a brand/cast'

Seven Dwarves I think could be the later category. Nemo SHOULD have been. The original FL rides most fall into the first category.

RSoxNo1 said:
Carsland should be similar - I don't expect that in Radiator Springs Racers we will take on the role of a Cocky Lighting McQueen and then be dealt a dose of humility mid ride. I expect it to be a "best of" in the same vein as Forbidden Journey.
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It's pretty close unfortunately... have you not watched the pre-viz of RSR?
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
flynnibus said:
Which ones based on movies DON'T? It's actually one of my biggest disappointments with rides like Nemo (at both EPCOT and DL). The movie leaves a perfect setup... you have well defined characters that can stand on their own in difference place settings... and all we get is a rehash of the movie. EPCOT could have easily taken the 'school' aspect shown in the movie.. and DL's is even more forced.

I guess I see it as 'attractions built to retell the story' vs 'attractions tied to a brand/cast'
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Good point. The assumption is that guests want to experience the same story as a real environment. Not so. The best lands are a premise or a world that allows you to explore it and expand on what was set up in the film. "Toontown" and the "Roger Rabbit Cartoon Spin" take you beyond the film, and things happen to you that were never in the movie yet it resolves like the film or obeys it's logic. The land is based on the Classic Shorts but expands on them in a way that young ones can have their own adventures within that cartoon realm. The New Fantasyland expansion will hopefully build on the base of the Dwarves and Princesses and give you a glimpse of the daily life of these characters or of their realms.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Jeanine said:
Which land would you have put it in? Was there a reason why HM had to go in Fantasyland? It never occurred to me that it would have been difficult to bridge the two rides like that--the Banquet Hall seems so natural there, now.
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TDL was horribly laid out when it was built. Operations must have laid it out. Who knows. A mashup at best. The HM should have been facing into Westernland instead of Dumbo!. The transitions are insane. The Diamond Horseshoe faces the Snow White Wishing Well. The Stream Train is atop the Jungle Cruise. I could go on.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sRKDRwdID...jM/Dt1F46M7Vrw/s1600/tokyodisneyland08map.jpg
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
Which ones based on movies DON'T? It's actually one of my biggest disappointments with rides like Nemo (at both EPCOT and DL). The movie leaves a perfect setup... you have well defined characters that can stand on their own in difference place settings... and all we get is a rehash of the movie. EPCOT could have easily taken the 'school' aspect shown in the movie.. and DL's is even more forced.

I guess I see it as 'attractions built to retell the story' vs 'attractions tied to a brand/cast'

Seven Dwarves I think could be the later category. Nemo SHOULD have been. The original FL rides most fall into the first category.
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I would say most of the attractions don't re-tell a full story, just part of it. I think Snow White and Peter Pan tell the story, but Nemo, Buzz Lightyear, and Stitch's Great Escape don't.

flynnibus said:
It's pretty close unfortunately... have you not watched the pre-viz of RSR?
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Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean - I've seen some interior photos at the D23 Carsland panel, as well as most of the stuff that's been on the Disney Parks Blog - is there something else I'm missing?
 
the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
RSoxNo1 said:
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean - I've seen some interior photos at the D23 Carsland panel, as well as most of the stuff that's been on the Disney Parks Blog - is there something else I'm missing?
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Hey Tim,
The video that Flynibus is referring to was a clip from a presentation given by Imagineer Kevin Rafferty at a college about Carsland. The video shows WDI's previz software basically running video of the entire attraction with audio and a layout of the attraction that show the vehicle's location within the ride. I believe it was posted on Micechat's DCA board via a youtube channel in december, then disney had it removed.
 
ChrisFL

ChrisFL

Premium Member
lazyboy97o said:
The Haunted Mansion was placed in Fantasyland to be sensitive towards traditional Shinto beliefs regarding ancestors and spirits.
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While that may have been the reason, I still think a better transition from the rest of the land is needed...having it RIGHT next to Dumbo is just.....weird
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Eddie Sotto said:
I heard that too. I'm not sure what impact that has. The show is the same and you'd think it would fit better as a legend of western culture.
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It probably would, but at the time the Oriental Land Company was averse to originality at Tolyo Disneyland. It was part of a larger Japanese trend through the 1970s and 1980s in which foreign goods were desirable if they had not been adapted for Japanese culture. Therefore, when the park opened most of the changes were for pragmatic reasons, wider walkways, The Haunted Mansion relocated, the Westernland name and a few other changes. The original attractions, possibly excepting Meet the World, all opened later. This all helped the Oriental Land Company sell the park not as a Japanese Disneyland, but a pure, authentic American experience.

Unfortunately the scholarly literature misses that the Magic Kindom has a good many design differences from Disneyland. This results in an analysis that claims a greater amount of originality than was actually present at opening.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
ChrisFL said:
While that may have been the reason, I still think a better transition from the rest of the land is needed...having it RIGHT next to Dumbo is just.....weird
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It's only weird because of the socio-cultural lens through which you are viewing the design. I do not know enough about Japanese culture to say for certain how effective this choice is/was, but when designing for other cultures one should not be so ethnocentric. Themed experiences are not really the medium from which one should challenge beliefs and offend or confuse the audience.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
lazyboy97o said:
It's only weird because of the socio-cultural lens through which you are viewing the design. I do not know enough about Japanese culture to say for certain how effective this choice is/was, but when designing for other cultures one should not be so ethnocentric. Themed experiences are not really the medium from which one should challenge beliefs and offend or confuse the audience.
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True. The goal is to entertain the audience. The HM/Dumbo thing is only weird to us. You do need to be sensitive to how things translate into other cultures as the idea is for it to be just as fun for them as it was for you. We never did matterhorn type toboggan seating over there because it was considered socially awkward and possibly immodest.
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
RandySavage said:
Or rather than move it, how about re-theme it (exterior & interior) to a European/fantasy/castle setting... instead of Pistol-dueling portraits you could have crossbow-dueling taspestries.

I had some fun drawing a birdseye illustration of such a re-vamp:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ACLhQLZe-IU/TzyXysPCmxI/AAAAAAAAAn0/HWm0WBN0NSY/s1600/New+FL+Tokyo+2.PNG
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Dude, awesome! :eek:

Did you draw that just for this thread?

I want YOU to be in charge of the Fantasyland Reclamation Project NOW!
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
the.dreamfinder said:
Hey Tim,
The video that Flynibus is referring to was a clip from a presentation given by Imagineer Kevin Rafferty at a college about Carsland. The video shows WDI's previz software basically running video of the entire attraction with audio and a layout of the attraction that show the vehicle's location within the ride. I believe it was posted on Micechat's DCA board via a youtube channel in december, then disney had it removed.
Click to expand...

Ahh... thanks. I had heard that there was a full ride through video out there that was removed - I didn't know the details of it. If anyone has access to it, can they please PM me?
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
RandySavage said:
Or rather than move it, how about re-theme it (exterior & interior) to a European/fantasy/castle setting... instead of Pistol-dueling portraits you could have crossbow-dueling taspestries.

I had some fun drawing a birdseye illustration of such a re-vamp:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ACLhQLZe-IU/TzyXysPCmxI/AAAAAAAAAn0/HWm0WBN0NSY/s1600/New+FL+Tokyo+2.PNG
Click to expand...

I meant to comment on this earlier. What thread gets this kind of artwork tossed into the discussion? We are honored. Thanks Randy.

We proposed a new Fantasyland concept for TDL back when I was there in the 90's. We proposed a "101 Dalmations" ride and "Beauty and the Beast" version of a rethemed "Mad Tea Party", done as a "Be my Guest" musical number. Mickey Mouse Revue was redone too. Pooh was added. We solved the Mansion by moving Dumbo into a "tent" as the centerpiece of a circus themed restaurant (ended up as Queen of Hearts). This left the Mansion as is, but we changed the surroundings, we added trees and stuff and extended the transition so it did not conflict.

Your HM Castle version solution would have worked well too. Good call on losing the jousting tents!
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
RSoxNo1 said:
I would say most of the attractions don't re-tell a full story, just part of it. I think Snow White and Peter Pan tell the story, but Nemo, Buzz Lightyear, and Stitch's Great Escape don't.
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I was thinking FL... but Buzz is a good example that doesn't... and MILF. Ironically... attractions many home grown experts see as thematic disasters.

Nemo Subs was a major letdown for me because of this very point. TLM I expected it to flow like that.. but the execution people see as lacking. Peter Pan still stands out as a favorite of mine in terms of pulling off the 'highlights' reel and progressing through them nicely.

RSoxNo1 said:
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean - I've seen some interior photos at the D23 Carsland panel, as well as most of the stuff that's been on the Disney Parks Blog - is there something else I'm missing?
Click to expand...

Pre-visualization - just like they do for movie production.. a rough animation of the sequence. But here, its of the whole ride, sets and all. It was on youtube, but was taken down. I have it saved on my home machine.. but not here. I've also seen the real sets inside.. they are going to be very very nice :)
 

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