Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

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DubyooDeeDubyoo

Active Member
I'm curious, what's the internal (when you were there) take among WDI on fastpass? I am firmly on the 'negative' side, given that Riders Per Hour will more or less remain the same and you can't make capacity show up out of thin air. People with fastpasses standing in line for another ride during their wait cause a parkwide efficiency drop when you consider that they would normally be waiting somewhere else.

I suppose I can understand it on theater-based shows like Star Tours or Soarin (though those can have painful waits as-is), but an omnimover like Buzz in the MK seems like no place for it.

I got to this comment in the old thread:

Eddie Sotto said:
I think the biggest weakness of the WDW POTC is that it's in Caribbean Plaza. NOS is so rich by comparison. The best thing about the WDW version to me is the queue itself and the plaza sets that up nicely.
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I suppose I'm preaching with the choir with this, but I recommend this blog post, which makes a pretty good case for Caribbean Plaza. I've only been on WDW Pirates twice (once a few weeks before the movie refurb, then once after) so it never sank in to me, but Caribbean Plaza is the burning village, and I was never aware of that. I suppose that failure of communication in and of itself is probably the weakness to the area. In that way, the danger is much more explicit. You take an escape boat out of Caribbean Plaza and then float out and around it as it's pillaged and burned to the ground. This isn't some time magical portal showing you what you've already missed like at Disneyland, it's happening right now.

Of course, that breaks down when you get off the boat and you're in a clean Caribbean Plaza again, but I suppose Star Tours DL does the same thing. The other narrative break seems to be some of the old cavern narration in the tunnels that breaks with the "this is actually happening" vibe, seemingly provided only because the ride would seem amiss without it.


If you have plenty of time, the same author also wrote a novella on DL's PotC at this link. The bit about the relevance of the name Blue Bayou dawdles a while, but the best part is detailing the unspoken "archway as supernatural portal" motif.

I have no idea if the archway narrative was quite that intentional. If Jim Hill's past writing is to be believed, Marc Davis felt the ride was hurt by having to take the long trip under the berm; while this blogger seems to believe that not delivering on the promised pirates until you're a third of the way through is a genius storytelling device. It could be that Jim is wrong, or that Marc wanted guests to hurry up and get to 'his' part of the show (the dual personality of the Mansion always suggested to me that he wasn't one to easily compromise on his vision, even when working with others.)

Though I've only ever seen it in photos, I feel like Paris has the best entrance wow for Pirates. Sad to hear that Tokyo's audience isn't quite as nuts about the ride, but nowadays it probably feels like it should be in TDSea as centerpiece to a whole land.
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
DubyooDeeDubyoo said:
I'm curious, what's the internal (when you were there) take among WDI on fastpass? I am firmly on the 'negative' side, given that Riders Per Hour will more or less remain the same and you can't make capacity show up out of thin air. People with fastpasses standing in line for another ride during their wait cause a parkwide efficiency drop when you consider that they would normally be waiting somewhere else.

I suppose I can understand it on theater-based shows like Star Tours or Soarin (though those can have painful waits as-is), but an omnimover like Buzz in the MK seems like no place for it.
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The ride system is irrelevant for effective Fastpass usage. The need for Fastpass at Buzz should be seasonal, not because it's an omnimover, but because it's an efficient attraction. Kilimanjaro Safaris is more efficient than the omnimovers but nobody complains about the fastpass usage there because the demand for the attraction exceeds the available fastpasses, thus necessitating. If anything, I would add Fastpass to rides like Pirates, Mansion and It's a Small World on a seasonal basis then remove it entirely from Buzz.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Being from Southern California, my take on the Caribbean Plaza is that it looked like a shopping center to me and had none of the real texture and rustic fortress feeling that you'd see in a movie.
Up close it felt flat. Nothing cinematic. We are spoiled both in Florida and California by the romantic versions of Spanish Colonial design done in the 20's. More of the "Sea Hawk", swashbuckling Errol Flynn variety. Agree on the aspect of it being an extension of the story. I'm only reacting to the execution. NOS to me is the best land ever done (in it's original colors). At WDW IMO Liberty Square and MSUSA have the best Architecture.

and the very convincing CP rebuttal. (You'll turn on me after this!)
http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2010/01/aesthetic-profile-of-caribbean-plaza.html

To me, something is off, and again maybe I've been to too many 60's "Dorito Del Rey" strip malls, but the CP finishes, commercial roof tile and lighting look low budget because I've seen them all so many times. DLP Pirates has a better exterior.

I like this look for the roof
http://image.shutterstock.com/displ...and-orange-roof-tiles-from-spain-44918980.jpg

As to fastpass, I guess I'm against it, but I'm sure to be in the minority. I'm a fan of serendipity. It's basically building diamond lanes instead of managing how much traffic you allow on the freeway.
 
LuvtheGoof

LuvtheGoof

DVC Guru
Premium Member
Eddie Sotto said:
Being from Southern California, my take on the Caribbean Plaza is that it looked like a shopping center to me and had none of the real texture and rustic fortress feeling that you'd see in a movie.
Up close it felt flat. Nothing cinematic. We are spoiled both in Florida and California by the romantic versions of Spanish Colonial design done in the 20's. More of the "Sea Hawk", swashbuckling Errol Flynn variety. Agree on the aspect of it being an extension of the story. I'm only reacting to the execution. NOS to me is the best land ever done (in it's original colors). At WDW IMO Liberty Square and MSUSA have the best Architecture.

What about Frontierland's transition from one style to another as you stroll up the pathway? With the different fronts representing different time periods, I think it works really well.

and the very convincing CP rebuttal. (You'll turn on me after this!)

Well, I won't turn on you, but it is a nice rebuttal.

To me, something is off, and again maybe I've been to too many 60's "Dorito Del Rey" strip malls, but the CP finishes, commercial roof tile and lighting look low budget because I've seen them all so many times. DLP Pirates has a better exterior.

I like this look for the roof

Completely agree on the roof! This would have been a much better and more rustic look like an old fort would have had.

As to fastpass, I guess I'm against it, but I'm sure to be in the minority. I'm a fan of serendipity. It's basically building diamond lanes instead of managing how much traffic you allow on the freeway.
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So I cannot say I dislike the fastpass system , since we do sometimes use it, but I can see where it really slows down the regular line, and may actually cause longer waits in the stand-by line. Saying that, I would be OK if they did away with it, since you can always plan your days to get to an attraction early, before the crowds roll in. We do that with Soarin every time. We get there first thing, have maybe a 5-10 minute wait, and we're done. We move on to something else. No reason for fastpass if you plan correctly.
 
Daannzzz

Daannzzz

Well-Known Member
There was a shopping center here in the Silicon vallley called El Paseo de Saratoga that was built in the 80's which was quite nice. On my first trip to WDW in 1996 we entered Caribbean Plaza and it looked very much like El Paseo. I was somewhat underwhlemed to say the least. There are portions of Caribbean Plaza that I like but I wouldn't mind if it was radically remodeled. El Paseo de Saratoga was torn down qhuit a while ago.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Daannzzz said:
There was a shopping center here in the Silicon vallley called El Paseo de Saratoga that was built in the 80's which was quite nice. On my first trip to WDW in 1996 we entered Caribbean Plaza and it looked very much like El Paseo. I was somewhat underwhlemed to say the least. There are portions of Caribbean Plaza that I like but I wouldn't mind if it was radically remodeled. El Paseo de Saratoga was torn down qhuit a while ago.
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When you go online and search Maracaibo,Cartagena and other Pirate towns they have more richness, are more rustic, and in that great texture and character. I think you're right, we are tainted by the malls.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
President at WDW.

The President is speaking at WDW MK tomorrow! Wow quite the honor for the WDC! He will speak on how the US wants more tourism, good idea. Quite a logistical big deal being in the park and all. My office is on the motorcade route whenever a President comes to LA and they lock down everything and everyone. Two big choppers. The number of black SUV's is incredible. Very impressive.

If I was him, I'd run over to the "Hall of Presidents" and stand in place of my AA and do the speech, then jump off the stage and run through the audience and out the exit! But that's just me.

I wonder if Universal will try and get into the act with an ad their own? "Mr. President, you've just given a speech at Disney World, what are you gonna do now?" "Im going on Harry Potter!"

(At first the secret service advised him against going because they heard there was a "Mad Tea Party" somewhere in Fantasyland). :ROFLOL:
 
KevinYee

KevinYee

Well-Known Member
That's right there with Truman not wanting to ride Dumbo at Disneyland (as it's a symbol of the opposite political party) - pretty legit as far as jokes, or even reality, goes!
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
KevinYee said:
That's right there with Truman not wanting to ride Dumbo at Disneyland (as it's a symbol of the opposite political party) - pretty legit as far as jokes, or even reality, goes!
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There really should be a Pleasure Island Donkey ride just to balance out the political parties.
 
KevinYee

KevinYee

Well-Known Member
Eddie Sotto said:
You need to cover the speech me thinks.. make a pitch for fastpass as the new Visa program.
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One of the main take-away messages of the speech is that Walt Disney World should soon be seeing more international visitors, perhaps especially Brazilians (who were mentioned by name).

Is it your sense that WDI would therefore target them expressly (with something like a Brazil pavilion in World Showcase)... or that as a desiring audience, they are exactly the ones who DON'T need something just for them, since they are coming anyway? (The same arguments kind of apply to locals and annual passholders, now that I think about it).
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
KevinYee said:
One of the main take-away messages of the speech is that Walt Disney World should soon be seeing more international visitors, perhaps especially Brazilians (who were mentioned by name).

Is it your sense that WDI would therefore target them expressly (with something like a Brazil pavilion in World Showcase)... or that as a desiring audience, they are exactly the ones who DON'T need something just for them, since they are coming anyway? (The same arguments kind of apply to locals and annual passholders, now that I think about it).
Click to expand...

Are you insinuating that President Obama is a Disney insider? Mr. President, start spilling the beans, we want to hear your take on rumors.
 
T

trs518

Active Member
KevinYee said:
One of the main take-away messages of the speech is that Walt Disney World should soon be seeing more international visitors, perhaps especially Brazilians (who were mentioned by name).

Is it your sense that WDI would therefore target them expressly (with something like a Brazil pavilion in World Showcase)... or that as a desiring audience, they are exactly the ones who DON'T need something just for them, since they are coming anyway? (The same arguments kind of apply to locals and annual passholders, now that I think about it).
Click to expand...

To me it doesn't seem logical to build a Brazillian pavillion to attract people from Brazil. Why would you go see a reproduction when you have the original thing?
 

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