Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[ChrisFL]

I think they likely would have and would explain why the Polynesian became low lying buildings.

What perplexes me more is why there were plans for a resort directly east of the Magic Kingdom (the Venetian, later the Persian). I would think the close proximity would give rooms with park views the added "benefit" of seeing backstage.

I believe they wanted to make it a second "gate" entrance, similar to what TDS or DCA has with their hotels.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Follow up

So do you all think it should have turned out that way with all those hotels?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I believe they wanted to make it a second "gate" entrance, similar to what TDS or DCA has with their hotels.

There is a significant amount of space between the park and the hotel(s). I see no indication of a pathway connecting the two in this model or the later aerial renderings. Both the Venetian and the Persian appear to be focused more on Bay Lake than the Magic Kingdom.

I think the monorail path is interesting. What appears to be the Magic Kingdom entrance monorail station sits directly in line with Main Street, USA. It would have blocked views of the Floral Mickey and Main Street Station.

The other is what Michael identifies as a Tomorrowland station. I am doubting if this is actually a station. First, having two stations so close seems just odd. Second, none of the other apparent stations include the yellow tape running along their top, with the tape instead being interrupted by the structure.

 

[KevinYee]

I would have operational questions if that many hotels were along the monorail path. Even today, guests at the existing hotels do not get 'easy' (and certainly not immediate) access to the MK, since there are too many people and not enough monorails. The DVC additions are making this worse, and they have resorted to roping off certain parts of the monorail at key stations, so that there is at least ONE car to take visitors from the latter hotels on the loop.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I would have operational questions if that many hotels were along the monorail path. Even today, guests at the existing hotels do not get 'easy' (and certainly not immediate) access to the MK, since there are too many people and not enough monorails. The DVC additions are making this worse, and they have resorted to roping off certain parts of the monorail at key stations, so that there is at least ONE car to take visitors from the latter hotels on the loop.

This system was intended to serve a very different purpose. The expectation was for Resort guests to do much more than the park. The ticket system also reduced the "need" to cram it all in during the course of the day, as admission for another day was minimal. Today it would probably be a nightmare due to the change in how Walt Disney World is experienced.

 

[jhastings74]

I believe Eddie is a big fan of Jobs, but I have to say all the idolization of him and comparing him to Walt makes me uneasy because, quite frankly, he was a deeply flawed and, often, very nasty man. Just look at what it took his daughter for him to acknowledge he was her father. And the way he treated some of his business partners wasn't exactly Walt-like.

I know I'm a few days behind on this thread (sorry!), but there were relationships in Walt's business life that weren't very pretty, such as the one between Walt and Ubbe Iwerks...so the comparison may not be too far-fetched...

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I know I'm a few days behind on this thread (sorry!), but there were relationships in Walt's business life that weren't very pretty, such as the one between Walt and Ubbe Iwerks...so the comparison may not be too far-fetched...

I think they both made emotional decisions from time to time. Walt was known as a taskmaster by some, and could be a tough negotiator. Walt seems to have been more philanthropic.

 

[ScoutN]

I think they both made emotional decisions from time to time. Walt was known as a taskmaster by some, and could be a tough negotiator. Walt seems to have been more philanthropic.

On my most recent visit to the World last month I ended up in the Kidani hot tub with a middle aged couple. The husband stated his grandfather was on the Florida (council board?) that approved the site to be built into WDW. He said he was at the meeting in a dinky hotel with Walt and Roy when the idea was presented. I called BS but he went to his room and returned with an old haggered framed photo of his grandfather in the room with the project board and a photo of him and his grandfather to link them. The story he presented was rather interesting.

 

[HMF]

A quick question Eddie, since Walt and family are buried in Glendale. Do Imagineers visit it frequently as some kind of "Holy site-thing"?

 

[HMF]

I know I'm a few days behind on this thread (sorry!), but there were relationships in Walt's business life that weren't very pretty, such as the one between Walt and Ubbe Iwerks...so the comparison may not be too far-fetched...

Lest we bring up Walt's "Red Scare" behavior.:lookaroun

 

[Eddie Sotto]

On my most recent visit to the World last month I ended up in the Kidani hot tub with a middle aged couple. The husband stated his grandfather was on the Florida (council board?) that approved the site to be built into WDW. He said he was at the meeting in a dinky hotel with Walt and Roy when the idea was presented. I called BS but he went to his room and returned with an old haggered framed photo of his grandfather in the room with the project board and a photo of him and his grandfather to link them. The story he presented was rather interesting.

I love that he packed the framed picture in his suitcase. You know he's all over telling that story. He probably sits in that hot tub, spills that story then pulls out that picture three times a night!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

A quick question Eddie, since Walt and family are buried in Glendale. Do Imagineers visit it frequently as some kind of "Holy site-thing"?

I don't. Not sure if others head out on his birthday or anything. I've been there once. Pretty low key burial spot. I think I'll head out there with a framed photo of me and Walt (photoshopped) and tell some stories..

 

[ScoutN]

I love that he packed the framed picture in his suitcase. You know he's all over telling that story. He probably sits in that hot tub, spills that story then pulls out that picture three times a night!

It was interesting, I was intrigued and that is very rare. The story told about how they had to drive down early on a weekend to a junk hotel that had a form of conference room. He said the entire time the group was there that Walt never stood up once and Roy did every bit of the talking as far as the specifics go. He said that they knew exactly where they wanted the highway, park, and every other detail; nothing was left out whatsoever.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It was interesting, I was intrigued and that is very rare. The story told about how they had to drive down early on a weekend to a junk hotel that had a form of conference room. He said the entire time the group was there that Walt never stood up once and Roy did every bit of the talking as far as the specifics go. He said that they knew exactly where they wanted the highway, park, and every other detail; nothing was left out whatsoever.

That is really interesting. I guess they knew who was best to deal with the local government issues.

 

[ScoutN]

That is really interesting. I guess they knew who was best to deal with the local government issues.

They had to drive from Jacksonville.

I will throw one from leftfield out for you this evening. Busch Gardens Williamsburg, and SWP&E were bought out by Blackstone. On the inner-loop it is widely known that Blackstone wants to step up all of the parks but BGW in particular. I have it on fairly concrete word that the within the next 18-24 months that ground shall be broke for a BGW Resort. Not only that but within the next five year a sixth coaster added, two dark rides, and more than likely some form of year round operation. Do you see something so stand-alone in a region that experiences all four seasons pulling a massive draw for year round. One source has stated that a new country is in the works but I am currently waiting for better word on it. Water Country USA across I-64 is slated to be nearly doubled in size over the next four years as well.

The brewery currently sits exactly behind the employee lot. From the looks of it it would seem as if the brewery is going to hit consideration for the chopping block. If that is the case and the majority of the concrete info I have comes to fruition, do you see it as a possibility for the park with its parent company to snatch that land up? How much of a stake do you see Blackstone trying to take from elsewhere with all the of the changes going on here.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think they both made emotional decisions from time to time. Walt was known as a taskmaster by some, and could be a tough negotiator. Walt seems to have been more philanthropic.

According to Isaacson, public verbal abuse seemed to be a keystone of Jobs' motivational strategy. I think I'd rather take the eyebrow.

It was interesting, I was intrigued and that is very rare. The story told about how they had to drive down early on a weekend to a junk hotel that had a form of conference room. He said the entire time the group was there that Walt never stood up once and Roy did every bit of the talking as far as the specifics go. He said that they knew exactly where they wanted the highway, park, and every other detail; nothing was left out whatsoever.

I just finished reading Married to the Mouse and it does sound like it fits the course of events given.

Speaking of the book, I found it interesting and recommend it for those interested in the general aspects of urban design and effects of a big tourist project. My only big issues were with the author's insistence that there was never any seriousness behind EPCOT and I think he misconstrues part of his evidence for this claim, the lack of permanent residents. One was never going to be able to retire to EPCOT. My impression has always been that residents would be assigned to EPCOT by their employeer for some term and then return "home" inspired what they saw.

They had to drive from Jacksonville.

I will throw one from leftfield out for you this evening. Busch Gardens Williamsburg, and SWP&E were bought out by Blackstone. On the inner-loop it is widely known that Blackstone wants to step up all of the parks but BGW in particular. I have it on fairly concrete word that the within the next 18-24 months that ground shall be broke for a BGW Resort. Not only that but within the next five year a sixth coaster added, two dark rides, and more than likely some form of year round operation. Do you see something so stand-alone in a region that experiences all four seasons pulling a massive draw for year round. One source has stated that a new country is in the works but I am currently waiting for better word on it. Water Country USA across I-64 is slated to be nearly doubled in size over the next four years as well.

The brewery currently sits exactly behind the employee lot. From the looks of it it would seem as if the brewery is going to hit consideration for the chopping block. If that is the case and the majority of the concrete info I have comes to fruition, do you see it as a possibility for the park with its parent company to snatch that land up? How much of a stake do you see Blackstone trying to take from elsewhere with all the of the changes going on here.

I could see this happening, especially if new dark rides are a part of the plan. As the Christmas offerings at both Busch Gardens and Hersheypark have shown, people will brave the cold. The big problem for both parks however is that the roller coasters cannot be safely operated in cold weather (and would not be very fun if they could). Adding more dark rides would diversify the park's portfolio, making it more appealing in the winter months. Proper resort siting and amenities could very much make it a draw on its own.

Is the brewery open or is it closed? And how long has it been closed? If it has been closed since before the sale I do not think it would be unreasonable if it was included in the sale of the park. The Tampa Brewery was torn down years ago for theme park expansion, and I am sure Busch Entertainment were always aware that the same could happen in Williamsburg.

 

[ChrisFL]

My only big issues were with the author's insistence that there was never any seriousness behind EPCOT and I think he misconstrues part of his evidence for this claim, the lack of permanent residents. One was never going to be able to retire to EPCOT. My impression has always been that residents would be assigned to EPCOT by their employeer for some term and then return "home" inspired what they saw.

I still am of the idea that WDW actually does quite similar things now, except they're with the College Program and International program CM's...they're employed by WDW temporarily and once their tenure is over, they go back home.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I still am of the idea that WDW actually does quite similar things now, except they're with the College Program and International program CM's...they're employed by WDW temporarily and once their tenure is over, they go back home.

I do not read much about these programs, but I have always gotten the idea that those accommodations are mediocre at best.

 

[ScoutN]

I just finished reading Married to the Mouse and it does sound like it fits the course of events given.

Speaking of the book, I found it interesting and recommend it for those interested in the general aspects of urban design and effects of a big tourist project. My only big issues were with the author's insistence that there was never any seriousness behind EPCOT and I think he misconstrues part of his evidence for this claim, the lack of permanent residents. One was never going to be able to retire to EPCOT. My impression has always been that residents would be assigned to EPCOT by their employeer for some term and then return "home" inspired what they saw.


I could see this happening, especially if new dark rides are a part of the plan. As the Christmas offerings at both Busch Gardens and Hersheypark have shown, people will brave the cold. The big problem for both parks however is that the roller coasters cannot be safely operated in cold weather (and would not be very fun if they could). Adding more dark rides would diversify the park's portfolio, making it more appealing in the winter months. Proper resort siting and amenities could very much make it a draw on its own.

Is the brewery open or is it closed? And how long has it been closed? If it has been closed since before the sale I do not think it would be unreasonable if it was included in the sale of the park. The Tampa Brewery was torn down years ago for theme park expansion, and I am sure Busch Entertainment were always aware that the same could happen in Williamsburg.

I have heard a bit about that book but never ordered it. I might have to after this semester concludes.

ChristmasTown has been a huge blowout here attendance wise. The park regularly closed gates due to capacity for well over half of the days. The fracture safety point given is ~40*. I swear in the early 00's when HoS was extremely cold it was below 40* and the coasters were still rolling.

Resort placement is fairly solid on behind the Festhaus on the other side of the tracks, just to the left. New country is appearing good for the Festhaus Park area where the concerts are currently held. Royal Palace Ampitheatre is slated to be expanded to accommodate the concerts. Just more evidence toward the new country.

As far as the brewery goes, it is still operable but InBev has been eyeing closing it since the buyout. The county taxes and water fees are HIGH. Quite frankly not much is really produced there.

 

[WDW1974]

I know I'm a few days behind on this thread (sorry!), but there were relationships in Walt's business life that weren't very pretty, such as the one between Walt and Ubbe Iwerks...so the comparison may not be too far-fetched...

Walt had his warts too, no doubt about it. He was REAL, which made everything he accomplished more profound to me.

But I just don't place Jobs on the same level. And the hero worship kind of freaks me out

~Never owned an Apple product in my life~