Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[MinnieM123]

Good point (and always nice to see you here). To me, details and how they are executed or even omitted speak volumes about led to them. It can mean that there is a lack of leadership, perhaps a case of apathy, uneducated staff, or even a hint of greed depending on what is "off". They are clues or symptoms of creative erosion, and that's why we discuss them here as they are important and not just a knitpick. I'm sure that display will not be there for long and Starbucks will get involved. In the end, enough bad details subconsciously erode the success of the product itself. Having said that, Starbucks is such a welcome product compared to Nescafe, it's unlikely that any thematic sin can overcome the guests desire for a good triple Espresso, although this comes at a high creative cost.

That was very well stated, sir. I appreciate your insight into the bigger picture, so to speak.

 

[neoshinok]

Mr. Sotto, have you ever checked out Wired magazine? I'm a subscriber and really enjoy their articles on current and future tech, design and entrepreneurs. Their latest issue has an article on seamless integration of UI in our everyday life that mentions Disney's MyMagic+.
http://www.wired.com/design/2013/08/design-and-the-digital-world/

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Mr. Sotto, have you ever checked out Wired magazine? I'm a subscriber and really enjoy their articles on current and future tech, design and entrepreneurs. Their latest issue has an article on seamless integration of UI in our everyday life that mentions Disney's MyMagic+.
http://www.wired.com/design/2013/08/design-and-the-digital-world/

I have...(I was pictured in Wired years ago), but must admit, as good as it is, have not been an avid reader. They do have some great articles from time to time and will check this one out. I guess I'm "tired" not "wired" in the "Did you read?" Dept.

Watch the link to see what I mean.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

That was very well stated, sir. I appreciate your insight into the bigger picture, so to speak.

Thanks. I guess Cinderella's Coach has turned into a Pumpkin Spiced Latte.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

interesting reading about the thought behind the presentation here.
makes me wonder which is more important, the product or the presentation?

They both are. Presentation is part of the "product" like the bottle is part of the perfume experience. Presenting something properly creates anticipation and communicates some of the experience of tasting the product without doing so. The china says quality, and that the one selling it respects the thing they are selling as wholesome food. The handmade tag implies that the product is not machine made and associated with a real bakery. All of that builds a subconscious bias and perception of what the food will taste like. If the product lives up to the presentation and surpasses it, the presentation was a crucial part of the experiential sequence of having it in the first place. Just as the unboxing of a Macbook Air is part of the joy of the product even though it has nothing to do with computing. If you bought your Air out of someone's trunk would you expect it to work? Presentation is part of the product's promise, and when you fulfill that, your product is more satisfying than if it was just sitting there. In Restaurants the plating and presentation of the food means alot to how it is perceived as you have an expectation of what it will taste like before you open your mouth.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

speaking on 20K ride, eddie did you ever know or know of a george stevens who was a designer of the subs and i think even did some work for the park trains?

Sounds familiar but does not ring an immediate Bell. Perhaps before my time... I think he did some of the art.

 

[KevinYee]

Eddie, what can you say in general principle terms about "the reveal"?

World Drive is reportedly twisty to ensure that we don't see things until we come around the bend. Hench claims in his book that good design gives the pedestrian a maximum of two choices at any one time, to keep things intuitive.

Are there good rules of thumb when it comes to size, color, composition on The Reveal? I'm guessing an emotional statement is the first principle - whatever else the thing is, it has to communicate an emotion somehow. Is this something of a "thesis statement" for designing an attraction... knowing what that emotion is?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

well he lived here in florida and was also a treasure hunter of sunken ships and the like, very interesting man
he was friends with my stepfather.

I'd like to know more about him, please tell us.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, what can you say in general principle terms about "the reveal"?

World Drive is reportedly twisty to ensure that we don't see things until we come around the bend. Hench claims in his book that good design gives the pedestrian a maximum of two choices at any one time, to keep things intuitive.

Are there good rules of thumb when it comes to size, color, composition on The Reveal? I'm guessing an emotional statement is the first principle - whatever else the thing is, it has to communicate an emotion somehow. Is this something of a "thesis statement" for designing an attraction... knowing what that emotion is?

It is. In our company today, we start with the "wow" or what the emotional result should be from the experience and work backwards into the design to achieve that. The reveal can foreshadow, or provide "clues" to what you are revealing (a low stone wall, or lanterns can reveal that you have entered a "Kingdom") to prepare you mentally for a less jarring and more pleasurable "wow".

Case in point. Encounter at LAX. Jetson's in the real world.

We put a special "Space Age" interlude audio track into the 28 second Elevator ride up to the Encounter Restaurant to take you mentally out of the ordinary world of LAX and set your mind up for the doors opening to it's Jetsonian interior. I thought it would have been too jarring a change with no set up as to what to expect.

Here's a youtube video of the Elevator. (Im amazed that there are actually videos of the elevator ride on youtube. It must have been memorable at some level.)


In that case, it both foreshadowed and framed the experience. It created an anticipation that was paid off in a satisfying way. It promises and slightly over delivers. The reveal is the supporting framework and it can also pose questions, like "what did I get myself into, I've left the real world.. and what would I expect to see next?" Promise and fulfillment. You can see how it lives in contrast to the real world and needs a reveal.

Another example...

When we did the Surf inspired soundtrack on DL's Space Mountain we used Sci-Fi inspired Theramin strains to create an eerie anxiety on the lifts as you are rise higher and higher, about to launch, amounting to a psychological "reveal", (an "oh..noooo" moment). That sequence framed or built to the eventual burst of speed when we heard "we have ignition!" and the music then took off. We had no budget compared to what we have today, but tried to really sync to "emotion" and ride movement more than anything else.

You can hear it here.

 

[jt04]

It is. In our company today, we start with the "wow" or what the emotional result should be from the experience and work backwards into the design to achieve that. The reveal can foreshadow, or provide "clues" to what you are revealing (a low stone wall, or lanterns can reveal that you have entered a "Kingdom") to prepare you mentally for a less jarring and more pleasurable "wow".

Case in point. Encounter at LAX. Jetson's in the real world.

We put a special "Space Age" interlude audio track into the 28 second Elevator ride up to the Encounter Restaurant to take you mentally out of the ordinary world of LAX and set your mind up for the doors opening to it's Jetsonian interior. I thought it would have been too jarring a change with no set up as to what to expect.

Here's a youtube video of the Elevator. (Im amazed that there are actually videos of the elevator ride on youtube. It must have been memorable at some level.)


In that case, it both foreshadowed and framed the experience. It created an anticipation that was paid off in a satisfying way. It promises and slightly over delivers. The reveal is the supporting framework and it can also pose questions, like "what did I get myself into, I've left the real world.. and what would I expect to see next?" Promise and fulfillment. You can see how it lives in contrast to the real world and needs a reveal.

Another example...

When we did the Surf inspired soundtrack on DL's Space Mountain we used Sci-Fi inspired Theramin strains to create an eerie anxiety on the lifts as you are rise higher and higher, about to launch, amounting to a psychological "reveal", (an "oh..noooo" moment). That sequence framed or built to the eventual burst of speed when we heard "we have ignition!" and the music then took off. We had no budget compared to what we have today, but tried to really sync to "emotion" and ride movement more than anything else.

You can hear it here.

I look forward to the day they bring back or reemphasize such place-setting. Excellent.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

i do get plenty of hits of george stevens hollywood legend though

kinda embarrased i brought this up without any further facts.

I tried a Disney Railroads forum (burnsland.com) and searched it to no avail.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I look forward to the day they bring back or reemphasize such place-setting. Excellent.

Carsland is a great reveal when you enter from the back, not down the street.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

The presentation is part of the "product" like the bottle is part of the perfume experience. Presenting something properly creates anticipation and communicates some of the experience of tasting the product without doing so. The china says quality, and that the one selling it respects the thing they are selling as wholesome food. The handmade tag implies that the product is not machine made and associated with a real bakery. All of that builds a subconscious bias and perception of what the food will taste like. If the product lives up to the presentation and surpasses it, the presentation was a crucial part of the experiential sequence of having it in the first place. Just as the unboxing of a Macbook air is part of the joy of the product even though it has nothing to do with computing. Presentation is part of the product's promise, and when you fulfill that, your product is more satisfying than if it was just sitting there. In Restaurants the plating and presentation of the food means alot to how it is perceived as you have an expectation of what it will taste like before you open your mouth.

I think this post can almost be left at the first seven words. The presentation IS the product in a themed environment. I can buy the same burger and coffee for $1.99 across the street. I pay $8.99 in the Disney park not for a better quality, or even for the location. I pay it because they sell me not a coffee, but a 1920's San Francisco market house, or vintage Baseball, or Gibson Girl inspired surroundings.
(Or a halfhearted themed a-dozen-a-dime Starbu...)

Carsland is a great reveal when you enter from the back, not down the street.

Can you share with us which other WDW/DL reveals work, or perhaps which ones are less succesful?

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Carsland is a great reveal when you enter from the back, not down the street.

I get what you're saying, but I do think its still pretty impressive from the main drag. I agree, the back is the best... and I think the entry from BugsLand area is pretty bad. At least right now.

 

[ford91exploder]

speaking on 20K ride, eddie did you ever know or know of a george stevens who was a designer of the subs and i think even did some work for the park trains?

What ever happened to the Disney that could do THAT! - Amazing a work of art!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I think this post can almost be left at the first seven words. The presentation IS the product in a themed environment. I can buy the same burger and coffee for $1.99 across the street. I pay $8.99 in the Disney park not for a better quality, or even for the location. I pay it because they sell me not a coffee, but a 1920's San Francisco market house, or vintage Baseball, or Gibson Girl inspired surroundings.
(Or a halfhearted themed a-dozen-a-dime Starbu...)
Can you share with us which other WDW/DL reveals work, or perhaps which ones are less succesful?

I should have written it shorter but thought that that statement begs for an explanation. Apologies.

Magic.
Entry Portals to Town Square Main Street to Reveal of Castle to Hub, to each land. Great sequence.

Tragic.
DL Orbitron nosing into hub vistas of other lands.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

True escapism, some better than others. I'll take the Train..
http://www.messynessychic.com/2013/09/12/10-unusually-cool-places-to-sleep/

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I should have written it shorter but thought that that statement begs for an explanation. Apologies.

Magic.
Entry Portals to Town Square Main Street to Reveal of Castle to Hub, to each land. Great sequence.

Tragic.
DL Orbitron nosing into hub vistas of other lands.

Hurrah, the delights of the creative designer mind! Even the language needs to be pretty and to be 'wow'. 'Magic and Tragic' - that's delightful!

But also, when I think about it, the very succinctness of the two words conveys the message better than a description. The meaning is immediately clear. So form and function are co-operating here. Casually showing that design is more than just pretty embellishment.


Some of my favs:
The entrance beneath the train station to the town square, street and caste. Everybody's fav I suppose, but is there any view anywhere else that is more uplifting, more welcoming?
The MK even elaborates on this, with an entire pre-sequence that starts at the monorail / ferry, or even the parking lot tram ride, or even driving up World Drive.

The Studios entrance. Which blatantly and very succesfully tries to follow the MK's design, with a reveal, a MS and a castle. I love it! But the Studios went one further in 94, with Sunset Boulevourd repeating the sequence, minus train station. ToT is more than just a weenie, it's almost another park icon. In fact, ToT manages to blend the castle park walk down MS with the walk away from civilisation towards the doomed mansion on a hill of the Haunted Mansions.

DAK's entry sequence. The parking lot is left deliberately sparse of vegetation. Then you walk through the gate. A wall of bamboo and plants greet you. You walk to it, around it, through it. Until you reach some rocks at the top. As you emerge the path and bridge and Tree of Life await you. It's executed very well, I love DAK when it gets things right.

- The Land.
- Mexico.

Failed:

- EPCOT, walking underneath SSE to the CC plaza. It is not a good reveal, not the greatest plaza either. And it resulted in the park icon standing with its back towards the park. (The plaza in front of SSE is a real gem though, or at least was so until they sold it for a few scraps in the 90s)
Arguably, the big reveal of EPCOT has already happened before. The one way to enter EPCOT is via monorail, which unveils the entire park like a movie sequence, from passing next to the spere, to revealing the entire east land, to the huge lake and WS. This reveal is magnificent. In fact, if I arrive at EPCOT by car or bus I will take the monorail to the TTC and then back to EPCOT because that's the only way to see the park!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Hurrah, the delights of the creative designer mind! Even the language needs to be pretty and to be 'wow'. 'Magic and Tragic' - that's delightful!

But also, when I think about it, the very succinctness of the two words conveys the message better than a description. The meaning is immediately clear. So form and function are co-operating here. Casually showing that design is more than just pretty embellishment.


Some of my favs:
The entrance beneath the train station to the town square, street and caste. Everybody's fav I suppose, but is there any view anywhere else that is more uplifting, more welcoming?
The MK even elaborates on this, with an entire pre-sequence that starts at the monorail / ferry, or even the parking lot tram ride, or even driving up World Drive.

The Studios entrance. Which blatantly and very succesfully tries to follow the MK's design, with a reveal, a MS and a castle. I love it! But the Studios went one further in 94, with Sunset Boulevourd repeating the sequence, minus train station. ToT is more than just a weenie, it's almost another park icon. In fact, ToT manages to blend the castle park walk down MS with the walk away from civilisation towards the doomed mansion on a hill of the Haunted Mansions.

DAK's entry sequence. The parking lot is left deliberately sparse of vegetation. Then you walk through the gate. A wall of bamboo and plants greet you. You walk to it, around it, through it. Until you reach some rocks at the top. As you emerge the path and bridge and Tree of Life await you. It's executed very well, I love DAK when it gets things right.

- The Land.
- Mexico.

Failed:

- EPCOT, walking underneath SSE to the CC plaza. It is not a good reveal, not the greatest plaza either. And it resulted in the park icon standing with its back towards the park. (The plaza in front of SSE is a real gem though, or at least was so until they sold it for a few scraps in the 90s)
Arguably, the big reveal of EPCOT has already happened before. The one way to enter EPCOT is via monorail, which unveils the entire park like a movie sequence, from passing next to the spere, to revealing the entire east land, to the huge lake and WS. This reveal is magnificent. In fact, if I arrive at EPCOT by car or bus I will take the monorail to the TTC and then back to EPCOT because that's the only way to see the park!

EPCOT does have some issues. Another in the "magic" column is driving up to the Contemporary Hotel and the road follows the beamway and then wham...you see the MK and the Contemporary Hotel right on the lake..

 

[KevinYee]

I can see them trying for a reveal at IOA - as you exit Ports of Entry, you get a vista of the park across the lagoon, with several key wienies beckoning you from across the water. But it's more than TWO choices at the same time, so it adds excitement but maybe also conflict.

Uni Florida has no reveal that I can tell