Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Omnispace]

What do you think of the Stars Wars brand (vs. Tron or Marvel) being the new Tomorrowland direction? Rumor has it...

http://micechat.com/37890-miceage-tomorrowland-starwars/

As much as I liked Star Wars when it first came out, I never felt that it necessarily represented the future. I certainly never considered it to be something that one would find in Disneyland. It just seems to be part of another "universe" than Disney, (just as the Marvel characters are), and to me clashes with the theme of what Tomorrowland is supposed to be. I can understand Tony Baxter's intentions to bring a "fresh" mythology to Disneyland, and I certainly appreciate the quality of what was developed, but I've always seen Star Tours as one of the first steps towards the watering down of theme at the Disney parks. I've never felt that it completely "fit".

I'm not even sure that the future should have a mythology since that usually invokes the past. The true mythology of the future is what each of us creates as we anticipate the opportunities before us. The first Star Wars movie might have embodied that excitement a bit since Luke was starting out on his adventures and reshaping his destiny but since then the overall story has become more a saga from the middle ages. I would rather see Tomorrowland embody something more inspiring.

 

[ToTBellHop]

As much as I liked Star Wars when it first came out, I never felt that it necessarily represented the future. I certainly never considered it to be something that one would find in Disneyland. It just seems to be part of another "universe" than Disney, (just as the Marvel characters are), and to me clashes with the theme of what Tomorrowland is supposed to be. I can understand Tony Baxter's intentions to bring a "fresh" mythology to Disneyland, and I certainly appreciate the quality of what was developed, but I've always seen Star Tours as one of the first steps towards the watering down of theme at the Disney parks.

I'm not even sure that the future should have a mythology since that usually invokes the past. The true mythology of the future is what each of us creates as we anticipate the opportunities before us. The first Star Wars movie might have embodied that excitement a bit since Luke was starting out on his adventures and reshaping his destiny but since then the overall story has become more a saga from the middle ages. I would rather see Tomorrowland embody something more inspiring.

It certainly doesn't represent the future:

 

[Omnispace]

I did not either but it is what I would prefer if my choice was a great presence or a complete take over. I just don't see Kinda Mostly Star Wars Land working much better than what we currently have.

I agree. I'd hate to see a continued mish-mash of stories in Tomorrowland. There has been too much shoehorning of ideas just to capitalize on a franchise or I.P. -- all at the the expense of the careful theming that Disney is known for. I'm surprised they didn't try to fit the Monsters mini-land in simply because the factory scenes feel modern.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I agree. I'd hate to see a continued mish-mash of stories in Tomorrowland. There has been too much shoehorning of ideas just to capitalize on a franchise or I.P. -- all the the expense of the careful theming that Disney is known for. I'm surprised they didn't try to fit the Monsters mini-land in simply because the factory scenes feel modern.

And has always been known for. After all, nothing says Tomorrowland like

 

[Omnispace]

And has always been known for. After all, nothing says Tomorrowland like

You got to remember, they keep moving that Matterhorn around the park.

 

[devoy1701]

As much as I liked Star Wars when it first came out, I never felt that it necessarily represented the future. I certainly never considered it to be something that one would find in Disneyland. It just seems to be part of another "universe" than Disney, (just as the Marvel characters are), and to me clashes with the theme of what Tomorrowland is supposed to be. I can understand Tony Baxter's intentions to bring a "fresh" mythology to Disneyland, and I certainly appreciate the quality of what was developed, but I've always seen Star Tours as one of the first steps towards the watering down of theme at the Disney parks. I've never felt that it completely "fit".

I'm not even sure that the future should have a mythology since that usually invokes the past. The true mythology of the future is what each of us creates as we anticipate the opportunities before us. The first Star Wars movie might have embodied that excitement a bit since Luke was starting out on his adventures and reshaping his destiny but since then the overall story has become more a saga from the middle ages. I would rather see Tomorrowland embody something more inspiring.

somewhere along the lines, anything "Space" and Monsters became synonymous with "tomorrow."

And yeah....that intro that states "A Long Time Ago...."

 

[devoy1701]

And has always been known for. After all, nothing says Tomorrowland like

the Matterhorn is in Fantasyland?

 

[ToTBellHop]

You got to remember, they keep moving that Matterhorn around the park.

With a really big crane.

**10,000 posts! And it only took 12 years!**

 

[ToTBellHop]

the Matterhorn is in Fantasyland?

Not when it first opened. In the early 70s, it moved from Tomorrowland

to Fantasyland

I hear it was an enormous undertaking.

 

[devoy1701]

I feel like you're joshing me. Did they just "shift" the land boundaries?

 

[ToTBellHop]

I feel like you're joshing me. Did they just "shift" the land boundaries?

My understanding is that it worked like this:

I don't josh.

 

[Omnispace]

Could you imagine if they did the Star Wars area with Disney characters (Mickey Jedi, Leia Minnie, Goofy the Hut, etc.) instead of the real characters from the movies? There would be mass hysteria.

You mean Minnie Mouse as Princess Leia? They've already started breaking us down on on that one....

I wonder how many "Hidden Mickey's" are going to be in the next movie...

 

[devoy1701]

My understanding is that it worked like this:

I don't josh.

I see what you did there....

 

[lazyboy97o]

I feel like you're joshing me. Did they just "shift" the land boundaries?

Correct. The change coincided with the filling in of the interior and addition of the abominable snowman.

In some ways I think the Matterhorn made sense in Tomorrowland in 1959 that we see explained in the Carousel of Progress. A theme in that vision of progress is greater leisure time and availability of travel. Tomorrowland in 1967 became a world on the move. Progress promised us ease of travel and greater exploration of our world.

 

[Omnispace]

Correct. The change coincided with the filling in of the interior and addition of the abominable snowman.

In some ways I think the Matterhorn made sense in Tomorrowland in 1959 that we see explained in the Carousel of Progress. A theme in that vision of progress is greater leisure time and availability of travel. Tomorrowland in 1967 became a world on the move. Progress promised us ease of travel and greater exploration of our world.

Good points! The original Matterhorn was very traditional, especially with the more authentic bobsleds, but the monorail went around it which made it very cool and modern. My impression is that mid-20th Century Europe was considered to be steeped in history, but also viewed as being very contemporary and progressive. One had Expo '58 in Brussels, ALWEG monorails being built in Germany, Swiss ingenuity and precision -- it fits with the Matterhorn representing both a fairytale past and a modern future. Eddie made an excellent comment earlier how contrasting historic and futuristic elements can create a lot of excitement.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

It's funny, in a case of unintended irony, the Matterhorn is truly a neutral "Switzerland" dividing lands. The sleds now look futuristic, but the Mountain represents a real place. I remember getting into big discussions with my friends as a kid about wether the Matterhorn should be in Tomorrowland or not, as I too saw the illustrations in those giveaway guidebooks. The 1959 expansion places it facing the Fantasyland Autopia, the topic of an even bigger thematic gaffe! In Walt's mind, I guess Fantasyland was not that hard edged. It's a "fantasy" to ride a Bobsled, pilot a slow motorboat, or drive a car when you're 8. That whole zone is a "no mans land" of theme in that there was a Midget Autopia too. Even Small World is a bit of a weird thematic leap with it's abstract facade. But that's Disneyland!

A fantasy property like Star Wars with futuristic technology as it's accents feels as Swiss as the Matterhorn in that it may bridge both worlds in a weird way. It could be great, or a mashup. As we say on this thread, "it's all in the execution". I think with the success of Carsland and the threat of Universal doing Potter, they will go big and make immersive "wow' scaled investments and not just retheme a coaster. I'm hopeful. Anything beats bronze colored concrete and rings of neon.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Good points! The original Matterhorn was very traditional, especially with the more authentic bobsleds, but the monorail went around it which made it very cool and modern. My impression is that mid-20th Century Europe was considered to be steeped in history, but also viewed as being very contemporary and progressive. One had Expo '58 in Brussels, ALWEG monorails being built in Germany, Swiss ingenuity and precision -- it fits with the Matterhorn representing both a fairytale past and a modern future. Eddie made an excellent comment earlier how contrasting historic and futuristic elements can create a lot of excitement.

Great observations...In a way, the Matterhorn with the Monorail lacing around it (and Skyway piercing it) is more of a "Montana future" type statement than the rest of the land! 90 percent nature just laced with the future. Technology compliments the land and does not dominate or super cede it's beauty and utility. In some ways, futurism is about man's dominance of, or independence from nature. Urbanity as the solution. The "Montana" idea supposes you can have both if you achieve balance in some way. Manhattan has it's excitement and unique beauty, but "Montana future" infers that you've chosen nature as the priority, but will live with it rather than level it. Central Park cages nature in concrete, and the "Montana future" seems the opposite. The Matterhorn is a great subconcious backdrop for all of that, and Switzerland is an interesting "Montana future" prototype.

At one time when I was at WDI, Bausch and Lomb, (makers of Rayban eyewear) were interested in sponsoring the Matterhorn as one option. My job was to look into the integration and we came up with adding a bit of an Olympic type competition overlay with more of a "Swiss modern" feel to signage and possibly a adding a (early Nextgen?) digital experience. We wanted to do a few minor things to the queue and have digital timing and so forth to make it a bit more interesting. The juxtaposition of the Swiss modern feel with the period Chalet and the tradition and music could have been a fun tightrope walk, but it did not happen. I'm a huge fan of all things Swiss. What's to hate about the Alps, Bernese Mountain Dogs, good taste in graphic design, Fondue and rubber watches?

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

^^ Nothing to hate at all!

 

[Omnispace]

......At one time when I was at WDI, Bausch and Lomb, (makers of Rayban eyewear) were interested in sponsoring the Matterhorn as one option. My job was to look into the integration and we came up with adding a bit of an Olympic type competition overlay with more of a "Swiss modern" feel to signage and possibly a adding a (early Nextgen?) digital experience. We wanted to do a few minor things to the queue and have digital timing and so forth to make it a bit more interesting. The juxtaposition of the Swiss modern feel with the period Chalet and the tradition and music could have been a fun tightrope walk, but it did not happen. I'm a huge fan of all things Swiss. What's to hate about the Alps, Bernese Mountain Dogs, good taste in graphic design, Fondue and rubber watches?

Don't forget how awesome Swiss chocolate is! Disney could get Lindt to sponsor the Matterhorn. Everyone gets a free piece of chocolate when they exit. Lindt could have a little shop that sells cool stuff like chocolate Matterhorns. Ghiradelli just opened their shop in DCA and they are owned by Lindt so perhaps this can become a reality. Of course if it was up to me I would bring back the Motorboat Cruise and have it run on chocolate rivers.

 

[Omnispace]

Great observations...In a way, the Matterhorn with the Monorail lacing around it (and Skyway piercing it) is more of a "Montana future" type statement than the rest of the land! 90 percent nature just laced with the future. Technology compliments the land and does not dominate or super cede it's beauty and utility. In some ways, futurism is about man's dominance of, or independence from nature. Urbanity as the solution. The "Montana" idea supposes you can have both if you achieve balance in some way. Manhattan has it's excitement and unique beauty, but "Montana future" infers that you've chosen nature as the priority, but will live with it rather than level it. Central Park cages nature in concrete, and the "Montana future" seems the opposite. The Matterhorn is a great subconcious backdrop for all of that, and Switzerland is an interesting "Montana future" prototype....

With that way of looking at the Matterhorn, perhaps they should move it back to Tomorrowland. I hadn't thought about it as a prototype "Montana future", (Matterhorn future?). In a way the Peoplemover and Monorail tracks through the Autopia trees somewhat represent that as well -- that is if you can ignore the clouds of exhaust fumes from the cars -- and the subs represent a coexistence with the oceans. It's definitely a more believable application of that concept than cabbages planted in flower beds.