Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Eddie Sotto]

This Billboard (secret sliding gate) on DLP Main street was also done by Jim. It was recently replaced but exists in Disneyland.

 

[Nemo14]

I'm loving all these! Thanks so much Eddie!

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I really had to mull that and almost printed it in sepia. Even had second thoughts once it was up. It does break theme in a radical way, but for some reason, at the time I thought it was more important dramatically to finish the story.

In a way, both arcades tell their story from a modern perspective. Very subtly. Maybe not even wittingly, but in a subconscious way. They are the product not of somebody curating the exhibits in 1920, but in, well, 'some time later'. A few decades maybe. In that light, modern day pictures don't break the theme, but fit right in. The arcade exhibituions tell not how the world in 1920 was, but how the world of 1990 came to be.

And not just the arcades. By default, all of Main Street is nostalgia driven, which implies distance in time. MS is not an exercise in historical reenactment, but in thematic representation. It is a very different beast to a historical museum. MS transports you not to 1920 (or 1905), but to modern, contemporary ideas and wishes about 1920.

Likewise, in Paris' Discoveryland you do not enter the world of 1990, but the world of 1890. Rather, the 1890 idea of 1990. Which, to be even more precise, is then the 1990 presentation of the imaginary presentation of 1990 of 1890.
In Discoveryland, despite being set in 1990, any actual pictures of 1990 would be a theme breaker, but not actual pictures of 1890. Which then, surprisingly, results in the situation that the same modern picture is not a theme breaker in historical MS, but is in the futurism of Discoveryland.


Also, that Jungle Cruise poster is one of my all-time favourites!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

In a way, both arcades tell their story from a modern perspective. Very subtly. Maybe not even wittingly, but in a subconscious way. They are the product not of somebody curating the exhibits in 1920, but in, well, 'some time later'. A few decades maybe. In that light, modern day pictures don't break the theme, but fit right in. The arcade exhibituions tell not how the world in 1920 was, but how the world of 1990 came to be.

And not just the arcades. By default, all of Main Street is nostalgia driven, which implies distance in time. MS is not an exercise in historical reenactment, but in thematic representation. It is a very different beast to a historical museum. MS transports you not to 1920 (or 1905), but to modern, contemporary ideas and wishes about 1920.

Likewise, in Paris' Discoveryland you do not enter the world of 1990, but the world of 1890. Rather, the 1890 idea of 1990. Which, to be even more precise, is then the 1990 presentation of the imaginary presentation of 1990 of 1890.
In Discoveryland, despite being set in 1990, any actual pictures of 1990 would be a theme breaker, but not actual pictures of 1890. Which then, surprisingly, results in the situation that the same modern picture is not a theme breaker in historical MS, but is in the futurism of Discoveryland.


Also, that Jungle Cruise poster is one of my all-time favourites!

Well said. Main Street is a romanticized view of the past and although it touts history as it's basis, does not have the responsibility to stay true to it. It's nostalgia is there to entertain. We use historic references and materials to suspend disbelief and give you the era as you would have liked to imagine it was like, rather than how it really was.

 

[Professional Dreamer]

Great story, thanks for that. Bob was the real deal.

Eddie, Bob and Joel went on to help me even further with the Minneapolis Traction Engine in Paris at EDL. After the WDW shops finished some TLC and added the "Big Thunder Mining Company" themed sign boards to it's roof canopy, it was loaded on a ship with all the other Americana going to EDL's Thunder Mesa. Among those were 2 remarkable finds in optional water and fuel storage wagons for the engine. These would be hooked up and filled for long trips to places trains could not go as tracks could not be set. This was shown in the original 1875 brochure as a Minneapolis engine and trailers crossed the Siberia deserts. Once in a discussion with Disney Legend John Hench I reminded him of a movie with great influence to me, McCabe and Mrs. Miller. In the movie a newer than ours, 1912 Case 80 horse power traction engine was employed in a new mountain mining camp, with wagons being hauled behind full of supplies and women for the new McCabe Bordello. It was also employed by the town to help put out fires with steam pressure when the local church caught fire. John liked that concept. On it's arrival in France, Bob got to fire it up again when it went into another storage facility until it's new location was finished. That location changed a few times as the EDL parks central facility corridor kept changing at least a dozen times in Thunder Mesa. Out of this came an even better solution to move Rose's Blacksmith and the Minneapolis over across the street from Big Thunder, where all previous show had been removed for cost reasons. Bob,Joel, and I were there on the engine when it was driven to it's new location and guided in behind Rose's Blacksmith as a storage yard for the Big Thunder Mining Company. There it would be easy to start up if any Thunder Mesa fires occured or to haul freight to and from the Thunder Mesa Train Station or the nearby Riverboat shipping dock. I always hoped Bob could return to check on it and fire it up and toot it's whistle form time to time. PD

 

[Professional Dreamer]

Jim has his fans on the posters, that's for sure. I like how his Tarzan poster had the same big stone letters as his Jungle Cruise.

Eddie, I'm sure Disney Legend Marc Davis was really happy with Jim's poster after adding the new show to the Jungle Cruise at Disneyland. Having researched and painted the 26 foot Python Snake for Marc as my first WED animatronic animal , I see Jim has featured it in his poster which I now notice after all these years. I wonder if Walt Disney World or Tokyo Disneyland use the same poster? Just Beautiful! PD

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I think this is the current JC poster. Very different. Judging by the choice of fonts, it seems they were going for a more period travel poster look.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, Bob and Joel went on to help me even further with the Minneapolis Traction Engine in Paris at EDL. After the WDW shops finished some TLC and added the "Big Thunder Mining Company" themed sign boards to it's roof canopy, it was loaded on a ship with all the other Americana going to EDL's Thunder Mesa. Among those were 2 remarkable finds in optional water and fuel storage wagons for the engine. These would be hooked up and filled for long trips to places trains could not go as tracks could not be set. This was shown in the original 1875 brochure as a Minneapolis engine and trailers crossed the Siberia deserts. Once in a discussion with Disney Legend John Hench I reminded him of a movie with great influence to me, McCabe and Mrs. Miller. In the movie a newer than ours, 1912 Case 80 horse power traction engine was employed in a new mountain mining camp, with wagons being hauled behind full of supplies and women for the new McCabe Bordello. It was also employed by the town to help put out fires with steam pressure when the local church caught fire. John liked that concept. On it's arrival in France, Bob got to fire it up again when it went into another storage facility until it's new location was finished. That location changed a few times as the EDL parks central facility corridor kept changing at least a dozen times in Thunder Mesa. Out of this came an even better solution to move Rose's Blacksmith and the Minneapolis over across the street from Big Thunder, where all previous show had been removed for cost reasons. Bob,Joel, and I were there on the engine when it was driven to it's new location and guided in behind Rose's Blacksmith as a storage yard for the Big Thunder Mining Company. There it would be easy to start up if any Thunder Mesa fires occured or to haul freight to and from the Thunder Mesa Train Station or the nearby Riverboat shipping dock. I always hoped Bob could return to check on it and fire it up and toot it's whistle form time to time. PD

Thank you for that great story!!! Search these engines on Youtube and you'll be in for a treat.
At the Maker Faire (put on by make magazine) in San Jose area, there is quite a display of working Steam Tractors and I've always enjoyed (and liberally photographed) their details. The Fair is this month for anyone who enjoys DIY tinkering. http://makerfaire.com

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Here's a site to browse that goes deeper into Attraction Poster history. As we all know, Jim is a great designer and in many cases the posters went through a collaborative process to reach the finished silk screened or lithographed process. Imagineers Rudy Lord, Ken Kerr (and others) helped bring the posters to life. This site credits them as well.
http://attractionposter.blogspot.co...d-max=2010-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=4

Here's the site for Rudy and Debbie Lord. they have an impressive body of work (and are great folks!). http://rudyanddebbie.com/tpposters.html

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Many artists have done their own versions of Disney posters too. Super work. Greg Maletic for one has done work for WDI and created his own designs for attractions past.
http://gregmaleticwork.wordpress.com/category/posters/

Steve Thomas takes a crack at Advertising Oz.
http://www.stevethomasartprints.bigcartel.com

 

[Eddie Sotto]

In riding Pirates today it occurred to me in the Auction scene when they called out "We wants the Red Head!". Why a Redhead? Why not the Blonde? Maybe Marc Davis' inspiration would be pirate movie Queen (Spanish Main, Against All flags, Black Swan), redheaded actress Maureen O' Hara? She is likely the most memorable female in those films of the period. I'm sure this might have obvious to all of you, but it escaped me till now. What you say?

 

[Professional Dreamer]

Eddie, I to love Maureen O'Hara and especially as Esmeralda in the Hunchback Of Notre Dame and the Quiet Man. (Bring Princess of the Gypsies Esmeralda back to the parks!!) Walt Disney had hired Joyce Edington into the WED Model Shop, and because of her long red hair down her back and almost to her waist, Walt used to refer to her as the "Red Head". You can see her in several of the old model shop videos and the making of the Pirates of The Carribean video with Walt. I'm sure that Marc was aware of this and with influence from Disney Legends Harriet Burns and Fred Joerger working also on Pirates, may have used her title in the character for the show.

 

[Professional Dreamer]

Eddie, I to love Maureen O'Hara and especially as Esmeralda in the Hunchback Of Notre Dame and the Quiet Man. (Bring Princess of the Gypsies Esmeralda back to the parks!!) Walt Disney had hired Joyce Edington into the WED Model Shop, and because of her long red hair down her back and almost to her waist, Walt used to refer to her as the "Red Head". You can see her in several of the old model shop videos and the making of the Pirates of The Carribean video with Walt. I'm sure that Marc was aware of this and with influence from Disney Legends Harriet Burns and Fred Joerger working also on Pirates, may have used her title in the character for the show.

Maureen does fit the Image of the Red Head! PD

 

[Californian Elitist]

In riding Pirates today it occurred to me in the Auction scene when they called out "We wants the Red Head!". Why a Redhead? Why not the Blonde? Maybe Marc Davis' inspiration would be pirate movie Queen (Spanish Main, Against All flags, Black Swan), redheaded actress Maureen O' Hara? She is likely the most memorable female in those films of the period. I'm sure this might have obvious to all of you, but it escaped me till now. What you say?

I think it's definitely a possibility the Imagineers took inspiration upon Maureen O'Hara for Pirates.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Eddie, I to love Maureen O'Hara and especially as Esmeralda in the Hunchback Of Notre Dame and the Quiet Man. (Bring Princess of the Gypsies Esmeralda back to the parks!!) Walt Disney had hired Joyce Edington into the WED Model Shop, and because of her long red hair down her back and almost to her waist, Walt used to refer to her as the "Red Head". You can see her in several of the old model shop videos and the making of the Pirates of The Carribean video with Walt. I'm sure that Marc was aware of this and with influence from Disney Legends Harriet Burns and Fred Joerger working also on Pirates, may have used her title in the character for the show.

Could very well be. Many thanks for that! I will call Alice Davis and see if she knows!

 

[SirOinksALot]

Thanks for all the insight Eddie - this is always a great read

 

[hiptwinmama]

Given all the advancements in modern medicine I would love to see the Wonders of Life Pavilion completely refurbished and re-imagined. Bring back and updated version of body wars. There is so much they could do with that place. It seems like they have lost the original "vision" of EPCOT, which was education. As a kid I loved the " after ride" experiences and interactive experiences.

Give the overcrowding in the parks these days, I'm surprised they haven't done something with Horizons, if I remember correctly it moved a lot of guests. Can you imagine what it would do for the long lines if kids dragged their parents to a re-imagined IMAGE WORKS for and hour. (like I used to) Or spent time in the Wonders of Life. Getting rid of the interactive educational areas has contributed to the longer lines at EPCOT, at least I think so.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Maureen does fit the Image of the Red Head! PD

Here's a picture of Joyce.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Given all the advancements in modern medicine I would love to see the Wonders of Life Pavilion completely refurbished and re-imagined. Bring back and updated version of body wars. There is so much they could do with that place. It seems like they have lost the original "vision" of EPCOT, which was education. As a kid I loved the " after ride" experiences and interactive experiences.

Give the overcrowding in the parks these days, I'm surprised they haven't done something with Horizons, if I remember correctly it moved a lot of guests. Can you imagine what it would do for the long lines if kids dragged their parents to a re-imagined IMAGE WORKS for and hour. (like I used to) Or spent time in the Wonders of Life. Getting rid of the interactive educational areas has contributed to the longer lines at EPCOT, at least I think so.

The original WOL pavilion was more about wellness than anything else. There is a fascinating world of prosthetics and genetic research that could be made entertaining. I know, good luck with that. Medicine is both looking forward in genetic and stem cell research, and in a way backward with preventive homeopathic remedies, solving health issues beyond targeted drugs in more holistic and safer ways. Robotic laser surgery and stuff like that is pretty interesting as well. There is also the story of our body as a machine that is truly fascinating. Even the Brain is a world unto itself. Human bodies are a miracle of creation and would be very EPCOT. WOL touched on birth but we never felt the awe of it. "Body Wars" simulators took us through the body in a fun way, but a squeamish execution of that show left something to be desired. Maybe using a free ranging vehicle (Mystic Manor or Pooh TDL) would be a good "blood cell" way of exploring the brain? It's tough in a theme park to deal with health as its more morose side always looms out there and you don't really want to think of mortality while on vacation. In the old amusement parks of Coney island, the incubators with live babies were hands down the most successful shows. Life was always more interesting than death. That's probably why the old pavilion was more about life extension via good practices than advances in drugs, blood and medicine. I think there may be room for both done well.

 

[Nemo14]

My husband and I were just talking about that the other night. With the advancements in robotic limbs and testing and treatments on children still in utero, as well as the improvements in physical fitness opportunities, it would seem a natural and useful fit to EPCOT. They could even get Captain Hook involved I suppose.