Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

Omnispace

Omnispace

Well-Known Member
Eddie Sotto said:
We were just discussing world's fairs a few pages back and the ride systems, etc. Here's a fun "then and now" photo article on the NYC site that hosted them. It would be great to kickstart a new "lost world's fair" on the same site and bring some of those shows back and add new ones.
http://www.imagineeringdisney.com/blog/2013/1/17/then-and-now-1964-65-new-york-worlds-fair.html
Click to expand...

I would definitely bring back all the Disney shows, both GM Futuramas, the AT&T 64 show, IBM 64, ....and the Wonder Bread pavilion from 1939.... ...just because it's awesomely cool. I can imagine fresh loves of bread moving about on automated conveyor belts while Raymond Scott's "Powerhouse" plays in the background!

wonder-bread-wf-097r.jpg


Johnson Wax used to show their film "To Be Alive!" from the NY 1964 fair at the theater they carted back to their headquarters in Racine, WI. It was quite an experience to watch it, like peering back into a lost era. You also get to take a tour of the incredible headquarters designed by Frank Lloyd Wright.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Omnispace said:
I like the part where Walt is walking through the MAPO shop and the crew is "working" on different parts of the dinosaur. One guy even looks like he is polishing the skin with a rag. It's staged but very cool.

Eddie, I don't know if you had any "must-sees" when you went to work for WDI. To me, seeing some of this type of work going on would be at the top of my list. I would also get lost in the archives of all the old projects and you would never see me again for days...!
Click to expand...

Now there's a question I have not been asked.

A favorite haunt of mine was the Archive and the Research library. Not only because of the books they had, but I enjoyed it as more of an archaeological expedition into how things got created. Some afternoons at lunch I would just love to look at the library cards and see who checked out what book. I occasionally ran across the name Walt Disney. Books on the subjects of piracy contained most of the team members that we think of in regards to that show. It was kind of fun to try to predict who would be on the library card of what book. When they changed over the system and combined the studio library with the wet the library, I asked if I could have some of the old cards because they were renumbering everything. They didn't seem to care. So I would consider that to be a must-see attraction.

The archive prior to digitizing was a very accessible and exciting place to visit. Why? Because you could open the giant drawers and handle the original artwork and really see these great works up close. All of that stuff was not as precious as it is today. You could even check out the artwork of Herb Ryman and pin it up on the wall to use in a presentation. The archive or the art morgue as it was called was used as a resource, not a museum. Sometimes in the bottom of the drawer there were other pieces of artwork that had never been published and they would give you a bit of an archaeology on how attraction was developed. How cool is that?

The other "must-see" on any tour is the model shop. I don't care who you are, but if you're not fascinated by something in miniature there has to be something wrong with you. The model shop always delivered on some incredibly beautiful object that had been painted exquisitely Being right across from the gigantic model that represented some huge vision on a chunk of real estate. I think that's what separates the model shop from many other things you could go see, it was not just the artistry in miniature it was all the vision that the models represented and their diverse nature. That part of the building was always extremely exciting because many of the models were also somewhat primitive and were in a state of becoming. Today its foam, tomorrow it's real. It's unfortunate that you don't hear more about many of the extremely talented individuals that are part of dimensional design. That's the new title for model maker. The model shop is usually a rite of passage for any imagine here as you have to work through problems in three dimension to understand how design would not just live on paper, would be built in the field. Tony Baxter, for example came up through the model shop like many other Imagineers. going through that process really gives you a great understanding of what it is you are building and how people experience things in three dimension. Computers taking over this step I think has taken away part of that critical path.

I agree that the scene with the dinosaurs was aggressively staged. You'd have fistfights if you had that many people working on one object at once. I do remember watching a similar scene when animal Kingdom and Tokyo Disney Sea were in production. There was quite a bit of activity in building all those audio and a Medtronic characters. It reminded me of being a child and watching those episodes we were looking at. You end up feeling incredibly fortunate and sometimes almost pinch yourself when you're standing there watching these incredible dinosaur tails in motion, or some small figure being finished. Then you snap out of it and realize you're there to approve some giant mural or some other problematic thing that is running late.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Omnispace said:
I would definitely bring back all the Disney shows, both GM Futuramas, the AT&T 64 show, IBM 64, ....and the Wonder Bread pavilion from 1939.... ...just because it's awesomely cool. I can imagine fresh loves of bread moving about on automated conveyor belts while Raymond Scott's "Powerhouse" plays in the background!

wonder-bread-wf-097r.jpg


Johnson Wax used to show their film "To Be Alive!" from the NY 1964 fair at the theater they carted back to their headquarters in Racine, WI. It was quite an experience to watch it, like peering back into a lost era. You also get to take a tour of the incredible headquarters designed by Frank Lloyd Wright.
Click to expand...

And here it is!
 
Darth Sidious

Darth Sidious

Authentically Disney Distinctly Chinese
Living here on Long Island and being a Mets fan... it is hard to not wish they didn't at least keep a smaller version of the fair open today. I wish TWDC would help in revitalizing the area. I know it will never happen but it would be nice to see. Watching these videos and seeing what once was is disappointing because I have seen it now. At the very least I wish Disney could recreate some things like The Four Winds Tower and find a neat place for it. It is a nice dream at least.
 
Omnispace

Omnispace

Well-Known Member
Eddie Sotto said:
And here it is!
Click to expand...


Thanks for finding that! It's interesting that the YouTube video shows only a single frame -- the original movie was projected onto three screens so this must be the center screen. I guess the only way to see it's original presentation is to go to Racine but fortunately you can get some Danish Kringle while you are there. :)

At least this allows you to experience the "tone" of the movie -- interesting how the narration is very much a product of its time -- almost like something from the Beat poets.
 
P

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Eddie Sotto said:
The one thing I wish the parks would do, or any client for that matter is to give you a budget to buy things as you find them versus deciding one day you want to go out and buy all the props and they're not there for you. Theme parks should be collecting in a reasonable way exciting and interesting things as they are advantageous to buy.
Click to expand...

You'd think that given Disney's live action film business, they'd be OK with buying stuff that could be used for either the parks or the films, and keeping a warehouse of rotating antique pieces. Not that Disney parks should become a Planet Hollywood, but seems like there could be some synergy there.
 
Eddie Sotto

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Pixiedustmaker said:
You'd think that given Disney's live action film business, they'd be OK with buying stuff that could be used for either the parks or the films, and keeping a warehouse of rotating antique pieces. Not that Disney parks should become a Planet Hollywood, but seems like there could be some synergy there.
Click to expand...

You'd think.
 
P

Pixiedustmaker

Well-Known Member
Eddie Sotto said:
We were just discussing world's fairs a few pages back and the ride systems, etc. Here's a fun "then and now" photo article on the NYC site that hosted them. It would be great to kickstart a new "lost world's fair" on the same site and bring some of those shows back and add new ones.
http://www.imagineeringdisney.com/blog/2013/1/17/then-and-now-1964-65-new-york-worlds-fair.html
Click to expand...

I've driven by this, it looks very dilapidated, almost as though its NYC's version of a cultural Chernobyl where stuff it left to rust due to historic origins. It obviously had a kinetic energy/optimism/carnival feel in its day, but a lot of it looks post-apocalyptic presently. So many urban areas that have hosted Olympics/World's Fair seem to have gone down hill.

It would be interesting if the U.N. (or somebody will deep pockets), gave a city/land somewhere to the World's Fair, or to a non-profit which would host a perpetual World's Fair, and thus have maintained grounds/facilities.
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Pixiedustmaker said:
It would be interesting if the U.N. (or somebody will deep pockets), gave a city/land somewhere to the World's Fair, or to a non-profit which would host a perpetual World's Fair, and thus have maintained grounds/facilities.
Click to expand...
Awesome idea! We don't even need the UN. A private organisation, supported by key corporations, could do it! Just buy a large plot of cheap swampland in Florida, enough to hold all the ideas and plans you can imagine, and build a permanent World's Fair there!
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
It all boils down to Money... these places don't maintain themselves. And when the crunch came, these places were at the bottom of the list.
 
Omnispace

Omnispace

Well-Known Member
Eddie Sotto said:
Now there's a question I have not been asked.

A favorite haunt of mine was the Archive and the Research library. Not only because of the books they had, but I enjoyed it as more of an archaeological expedition into how things got created. Some afternoons at lunch I would just love to look at the library cards and see who checked out what book. I occasionally ran across the name Walt Disney. Books on the subjects of piracy contained most of the team members that we think of in regards to that show. It was kind of fun to try to predict who would be on the library card of what book. When they changed over the system and combined the studio library with the wet the library, I asked if I could have some of the old cards because they were renumbering everything. They didn't seem to care. So I would consider that to be a must-see attraction.

The archive prior to digitizing was a very accessible and exciting place to visit. Why? Because you could open the giant drawers and handle the original artwork and really see these great works up close. All of that stuff was not as precious as it is today. You could even check out the artwork of Herb Ryman and pin it up on the wall to use in a presentation. The archive or the art morgue as it was called was used as a resource, not a museum. Sometimes in the bottom of the drawer there were other pieces of artwork that had never been published and they would give you a bit of an archaeology on how attraction was developed. How cool is that?

The other "must-see" on any tour is the model shop. I don't care who you are, but if you're not fascinated by something in miniature there has to be something wrong with you. The model shop always delivered on some incredibly beautiful object that had been painted exquisitely Being right across from the gigantic model that represented some huge vision on a chunk of real estate. I think that's what separates the model shop from many other things you could go see, it was not just the artistry in miniature it was all the vision that the models represented and their diverse nature. That part of the building was always extremely exciting because many of the models were also somewhat primitive and were in a state of becoming. Today its foam, tomorrow it's real. It's unfortunate that you don't hear more about many of the extremely talented individuals that are part of dimensional design. That's the new title for model maker. The model shop is usually a rite of passage for any imagine here as you have to work through problems in three dimension to understand how design would not just live on paper, would be built in the field. Tony Baxter, for example came up through the model shop like many other Imagineers. going through that process really gives you a great understanding of what it is you are building and how people experience things in three dimension. Computers taking over this step I think has taken away part of that critical path.

I agree that the scene with the dinosaurs was aggressively staged. You'd have fistfights if you had that many people working on one object at once. I do remember watching a similar scene when animal Kingdom and Tokyo Disney Sea were in production. There was quite a bit of activity in building all those audio and a Medtronic characters. It reminded me of being a child and watching those episodes we were looking at. You end up feeling incredibly fortunate and sometimes almost pinch yourself when you're standing there watching these incredible dinosaur tails in motion, or some small figure being finished. Then you snap out of it and realize you're there to approve some giant mural or some other problematic thing that is running late.
Click to expand...

Wow! Thanks for answering that with such a thorough response! I almost forgot about the library slips in the books that would list who checked out the book in the past. I'm assuming that a lot of them soon had Eddie Sotto on them as well. ;) It would make for a fascinating collection.

I would have loved to see the "Art Morgue". Seeing the earlier versions of different designs is a great way of understanding the process. Then of course there's the version of the project that every one wanted to have realized until it was "value engineered". Sometimes those can be very intriguing. I'm very curious what project drawer you went to look in first.

I'll have to agree that most people relate to models much better than they do to drawings or even renderings. And yes, miniature ones for some reason are all that much more appealing. I'm not sure how to comment on today's process because I'm not sure exactly what it is nowadays. It's certainly possible to train oneself to visualize things three dimensionally in their mind and understand that on paper. And a lot of the 3-D design programs that are out now really give you a lot of flexibility for exploring different solutions that in real-world modeling would be prohibitively time consuming. I also suppose that with the new 3-D printing that ideas can be quickly generated and evaluated. But then there's an innate sense of knowing how to put things together and knowing at what point it's "right" that needs to be developed and it's a big question on how best that sense is developed. Working in the Model Shop would definitely be a good experience though.
 

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