Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Eddie Sotto]

That would be fascinating if they could lend such creatures to being part of outdoor atmosphere, whether permanent or temporary?

Speaking of which Eddie, what do you know about outdoor animatronics on a semi-permanent basis? I know the Jungle Cruise has some, and the Enchanted Tiki Room had one back in the day, but other those that I really can't think of many. Are weather and climate conditions too much for most animatronics to put up with year round?

I think Disney's latest attempt at outdoor Animatronics was the renovation of the Rivers of America at Disneyland. One issue usually is the collection of dirt and dust on the shoulders and heads of characters. Unless you have maintenance cleaning them every day they end up looking pretty unrealistic. Because so many of them have paint on them, ultraviolet light is usually an issue for fading costumes and the deterioration of latex rubber faces and various parts. Believe it or not, air pollution also plays a role in deteriorating the faces and latex areas. Changes in temperature from extreme heat to bitter cold that night also creates expansion and contraction which affects the viability of figures. Insects and other creatures like to live inside these things as well. Unfortunately, a lot of these figures and up having to be sculpted with very limited movement and be rather static. You try to make them bulletproof. A good example is the shaman on the Rivers of America. They put him under a rock cliff so he's under some shelter. He seems to have quite a bit of movement and the strategic use of a Cape and other hand tools exaggerates his movements.

The Jurassic Park ride at Universal Studios using outdoor dinosaurs was less successful in my opinion. Especially since you see rings of calcium around their waists as they sit in the water. I recall seeing sippers and torn faces and skin. Not attractive. They may have corrected all these things by now.

The jungle Cruise does have some very successful critters. I think the bull elephants and the bathing elephants look very good as they took special care with adding hair to the skins. The key to getting outdoor Animatronics to work well is to premeditate the scene, the sculpting and positioning of the character, and other factors to make whatever limited movement you have appear very natural and pay off. Some outdoor figures do not have time to reset themselves so they have to have a continuous movement or something that allows them to always look like they are doing something in progress.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Very similar to the Bell System attraction at the 1964 NY Fair...
Could these be the precursor to the shapes of the first Atommobiles and Doombuggies? I remember reading an account from Bob Gurr how they went back and forth a couple times on deciding what the shape of the Omnimover cars should be. It would be interesting to know what the details of that discussion were.


_

I would have to say yes to that. I have some books that I can scan that have the plans to the 1939 world's fair horizons pavilion and details of some of those vehicles. They were a continuous conveyance. The first continuous conveyance that I had ever seen was a steam powered moving sidewalk that premiered in Paris France with the Eiffel Tower back in the late 1800s. Here's a link to an Edison film of that conveyance. Incredible.

 

[lazyboy97o]

According to Victor Gruen in The Heart of Our Cities, a book Walt Disney owned and which essentially outlines the organizational scheme of EPCOT, there was a continuous moving bench sidewalk at the World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago, a project worked on my Elias Disney as a carpenter. I've always wondered if Elias ever saw it and if he ever told his youngest son about it years before he would revive the concept.

 

[Darth Sidious]

Why didn't this idea get translated into even cooler Lucas creatures? I bet they retool this into a Mos Eisley "Streetmosphere" fleet of critters roaming some new Star Wars area. Imagine 20 of these in various sizes and creatures clogging a Spaceport or roaming a resort lobby! Or better yet, a full on Star Wars Creature parade.

Disney needs to hire Eddie Sotto Studios... Great ideas are brewing!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

You are right, there was a moving sidewalk at the Chicago Fair. News to me! Moving sidewalks a go go. Check this article out..Wow.
http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/paleofuture/2012/01/moving-sidewalks-before-the-jetsons/

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I think Disney's latest attempt at outdoor Animatronics was the renovation of the Rivers of America at Disneyland. One issue usually is the collection of dirt and dust on the shoulders and heads of characters. Unless you have maintenance cleaning them every day they end up looking pretty unrealistic. Because so many of them have paint on them, ultraviolet light is usually an issue for fading costumes and the deterioration of latex rubber faces and various parts. Believe it or not, air pollution also plays a role in deteriorating the faces and latex areas. Changes in temperature from extreme heat to bitter cold that night also creates expansion and contraction which affects the viability of figures. Insects and other creatures like to live inside these things as well. Unfortunately, a lot of these figures and up having to be sculpted with very limited movement and be rather static. You try to make them bulletproof. A good example is the shaman on the Rivers of America. They put him under a rock cliff so he's under some shelter. He seems to have quite a bit of movement and the strategic use of a Cape and other hand tools exaggerates his movements.

UV is an issue for a variety of man made products, but they do make additives which can make things "UV-proof", no doubt they could do the same for animatronics. I'm thinking they could make fur for a critter out of a UV resistant plastic material and perhaps hide a shower head over the animatronic so that it could be used to wash the dirt and gunk off it at regular intervals.

The update to the river area had some nice looking animals, but a lot of them don't move at all!

I think another solution for maintenance would be build a hidden little flat brown cement walkway/walkways for the animatronics, put GPS devices/wheels on them and program them to return to some area for cleaning. They could use this for part of their show, have a "herd" of critters that intermittently travel around the edge of the river, such as a pack of wolves! They could stop under a pre-programmed shaded area, and then go on the move when the steam boat goes by. Tiny wheels would move them, but I'm sure that the motor could be used to also move faux legs in a realistic manner.

It would also give APers something to look for, to see if they wolves are out on the river today.



They've already got robotic vacuum cleaners, I bet I could use the juice for the vacuum motor to power an animatronic critter with limited motion, given enough time. Somebody could build an amateur squirrel that flicks its tail and bobs its head as it moves around randomly.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I think we should get this thread to rent a complete 13th Century Village for a celebration of total immersive worlds. http://www.simplychateau.com/pyrenees/13th-c-fortified-village/

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I tried to do this with full size ride vehicles as creatures. We proposed a Sci-Fi Zoo for the Tomorrowland at TDL, but it did not happen.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I think we should get this thread to rent a complete 13th Century Village for a celebration of total immersive worlds. http://www.simplychateau.com/pyrenees/13th-c-fortified-village/

That's an interesting part of the world!

It's a bit of a tangent, but I do have quite an interest in the Basque people that have for probably *thousands* of years, possibly back to the the stone age, lived in the Pyrenees.

For anybody who doesn't know, the Basque speak a language which bears little resemblance to any other, and their word for "knife" is a derivative of "stone", suggesting they have been speaking in Basque since the Stone Age. (Maybe a lot of people spoke Basque in the past). They also have some genetic uniqueness, having the highest concentration of Type O blood in the world. Recent genetic studies have linked them to the Ket in northern Siberia, (probably from where they migrated from), and to the Irish/Welsh (where they later migrated to, and to whom they are closely related), and to Native Americans! Early european explorers were surprised that some Native Americans used Basque words with identical meanings.

A lot of the shipbuilders in centuries past were Basque, and they helped Columbus get to the new world . . . and probably were fishing off the coast of Canada/North U.S. for decades before Columbus (without telling to keep their fishing grounds secret). European explorers were surprised to see that some native americans used Basque words . . .

Here's a good book if anybody is interested, http://www.amazon.com/Basque-History-World-Story-Nation/dp/0140298517

Also, the terrorist group "ETA" is Basque, they have wanted to form their own country using parts of northern Spain and southern France. And, one of the most famous paintings in the world (the most after Mona Lisa and Las Meninas?) is Picasso's Guernica, the bombing of a Basque town at the opening of World War 2. The Nazis cornered Picasso, I think in Paris, and were really upset with him for the portrail of the first use of carpet bombing and asked him of the mural, "Did you do this?" And he simply answered, "No, you did."

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I'm proud of some of the posts on this thread. I learn so much from all of you! Basking in your awesomeness.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

I was going to mention a book I had read that touched on the Basques, and then found out it was from the same author, Mark Kurlansky! I'd highly recommend his writing no matter what the topic; his books are very "readable" without being too simple, IMO. Cod: A Biography of the Fish That Changed the World is basically the story of how cod are the reason the world is the way it is today. Humble, right? Now I want to go dig out my copy and read again.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I was going to mention a book I had read that touched on the Basques, and then found out it was from the same author, Mark Kurlansky! I'd highly recommend his writing no matter what the topic; his books are very "readable" without being too simple, IMO. Cod: A Biography of the Fish That Changed the World is basically the story of how cod are the reason the world is the way it is today. Humble, right? Now I want to go dig out my copy and read again.

Cod? Have we jumped the Shark?

 

[Nemo14]

I'm proud of some of the posts on this thread. I learn so much from all of you! Basking in your awesomeness.

or perhaps "Basqing"?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I was going to mention a book I had read that touched on the Basques, and then found out it was from the same author, Mark Kurlansky! I'd highly recommend his writing no matter what the topic; his books are very "readable" without being too simple, IMO. Cod: A Biography of the Fish That Changed the World is basically the story of how cod are the reason the world is the way it is today. Humble, right? Now I want to go dig out my copy and read again.

Yup, I was going to add that he has a way with writing non-fiction that makes it very interesting. I'm reading his Oyster book, has a lot of great history for anybody who wants to know more about New York City.

You gotta love the title too, "The Big Oyster: History on the Half Shell".

Apparently New York City was a big oyster producing region of the U.S. before the waters got polluted, and there are massive piles of oyster shells buried all over the city.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Cod? Have we jumped the Shark?

The Cod book is surprisingly good, I bought it on a whim years ago and I never look at fish sticks the same way!

Here's a link to his stuff on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Mark-Kurlansky/e/B001H6GAAU/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_3?qid=1358961241&sr=8-3-spell

 

[bcoachable]

I love good books!
I am reading one now Titled "The Devil in the White City" by Erik Larsson. It is about the Chicago Worlds Fair Architects and designers (among other things ). Fun to here about early "people mover" stuff on this thread while I am reading about it in the book!

 

[Omnispace]

I love good books!
I am reading one now Titled "The Devil in the White City" by Erik Larsson. It is about the Chicago Worlds Fair Architects and designers (among other things ). Fun to here about early "people mover" stuff on this thread while I am reading about it in the book!

This book, while fascinating, is also creepy beyond all else. Would make a good movie.

 

[Calvin Coolidge]

I was going to mention a book I had read that touched on the Basques, and then found out it was from the same author, Mark Kurlansky! I'd highly recommend his writing no matter what the topic; his books are very "readable" without being too simple, IMO. Cod: A Biography of the Fish That Changed the World is basically the story of how cod are the reason the world is the way it is today. Humble, right? Now I want to go dig out my copy and read again.

Haven't read "Cod" yet, but his Salt book was great: http://www.amazon.com/Salt-World-History-Mark-Kurlansky/dp/0142001619/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1

 

[bcoachable]

This book, while fascinating, is also creepy beyond all else. Would make a good movie.

I agree... Very intersting that humans are capable of such extreme beauty and extreme yuck mere blocks away from each other. Movie material for sure! Larson also wrote a very good book on the Galveston Hurricane "Isaac's Storm"... great story teller.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

This book, while fascinating, is also creepy beyond all else. Would make a good movie.

We almost have a book review thread going.