Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
I believe it was related in context to the layout of the entire property and orientation to the Highway, Rail System, etc. Radial plan.
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Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)
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Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
Just notice this video of an animatronic owl in the Tokyo Splash in another thread on this site,
!
Looks like Hoot Gibson to me, the owl that was supposed to be the narrator for Western River Expedition. Though Disneyland lost Country Bear Jamboree, and America Sings, in terms of a musical revue/comedy, I think the idea of an animatronic show still has a lot of merit and potential.
!
Looks like Hoot Gibson to me, the owl that was supposed to be the narrator for Western River Expedition. Though Disneyland lost Country Bear Jamboree, and America Sings, in terms of a musical revue/comedy, I think the idea of an animatronic show still has a lot of merit and potential.
Omnispace
Well-Known Member
It's interesting how you and Tony are connected to the same event. I can easily see how one might be impressed by such an extensive movie set -- that New York street was huge!!! According to the website it extended all the way through the studio from Pico to Olympic. Looking at things such as this makes it much easier to relate to the film making experiences that influenced Walt's vision when he was conceiving Disneyland -- only he was creating the world behind the facades as well for everyone to enjoy.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
Wow. I've seen bits of the film, but have to look at the whole thing sometime again, can't believe that Tony Baxter is an extra in the film that inspired DLP's main street. I think I read somewhere that Hello Dolly inspired MK's Main Street. Very cool little tidbit of info.
BlueSkyDriveBy
Well-Known Member
You are not going to believe this, but... I took the same tour! And the studio was about a day or two away from filming the Harmonia Gardens scenes when we visited the set.
To this day I clearly remember the odd colors of that set, the huge quantity of artificial flowers, how unnatural they looked, almost sickly. Our tour guide explained that naturally looking colors will wash out under bright studio lights, so the colors are deliberately oversaturated. Something I'm certain you know all about, correct?
I was completely amazed at how art directors could know just how much to jack up the color intensity in order for the audience to visualize in the movie theater what they imagined on paper or canvas. I thought it was really cool as well. But unlike you, I didn't aspire to do it for a living.
Really? Then you and I are about the same age. John Lasseter is only a few weeks older than me, and Tony is almost exactly ten years older than John.
Now this is getting spooky!
My older sister was actually in the parade! She was part of the women's drill team unit performing with the barbells! About two or three SoCal high school drill team units were asked to participate, and her school's team was one of them.
There was some kind of connection between the band director at her school and the studio front office, but I don't remember the details. I know the band and drill team were always invited each year to the Santa Claus Lane Parade (now the Hollywood Christmas Parade), and the Christmas Parade at DL. The drill team won many prestigious awards over the years, so I guess the film producers wanted girls who could learn their routine quickly and never make a mistake.
But how cool that both of us got to see the sets, and my sister and Tony were in the film!
I never knew that's where the idea came from. Too bad it didn't wind up in DLP. It would have been a perfect fit for your Main Street, Eddie.
I didn't know you worked with DeCuir. Did you know his son? Didn't he also work for Disney?
And way cool about Herbie teaching John! I didn't know that!
Wow. Thanks for the link. Looking at those photos brings back memories. You were right about the perspective of the flats, and how from a distance the buildings and windows looked three-dimensional. But up close? Very definitely flat painted surfaces. Best optical illusion I've seen still to this day.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
WOW! Cosmic connections! You did the tour too? Do you recall the "Batman" and "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" stuff? I think it was a Sunday so they were not doing much when we were there, but the Dolly Street was being prepped for the next day. Adding the wet look to the fountains, etc. Such a wonderful day for this 10 year old. Bigger,richer and better than Disney. Turning point in my life. I told my Mom i had to meet the guy who did that set. I knew I wanted to do that stuff. DLP was my shot at literally doing that set.Tony and I totally wanted to take the design in that direction. I think we got there graphically as the whole Main Street Motors area plays off of the street corner in Dolly with the signage (Pourous Plaster) and tall buildings behind the wedge shaped single story building (Vanek).
Then there's the Elevated Train from the Dolly set. Look at the Station in this Colin Campbell painting. Obvious lift. The metal stairs made it into the final station in the park.
The day we were there we were not allowed into the Harmonia Gardens. I would have remembered that set. We met in Century Plaza Mall first and there was a model of the "Seaview" Submarine in the tour office there. I was already wowed by that point and we had not even departed. We saw what was left of the Western Street, a Prison Block, A Waterfront with a Ship, the NY urban "Batman" Street, New England "Peyton Place", and then the Dolly Street as the finale.
If you have the Dolly DVD, there is a "making of" the parade sequence featurette I was watching not 5 minutes ago and it has the drill team and so much of what I recall that day on that magical tour. Maybe she is in it. I freeze frame it so many times it's not funny as that design of that film is the benchmark for everything we did on Main Street. Peter Kelly was a set designer on Dolly and he was on our staff, he gave me the blueprints of Harmonia Gardens! I dragged the lake for every old school movie set designer that could bring that cinematic look to Main Street. It had to have the depth of the Fox look! I recall you doing things for technicolor especially with the costumes. You want them to stand out from the sets. They told stories of birds trying to land on faux painted window sills and they would fall off the NYC flats. De Cuir and others had this special color palette that Fox used and I'm still trying to acquire it from and old Art Director friend. It's grayed and restrained as a background like Disney. Look at the soft wall colors in the Hat Shop and the Feed store. Totally tasteful. The rugs and costumes,flowers and accents stand out. I can't honestly say I "worked" with DeCuir on projects, but spied on him and hung in his office and bugged him. He thought big and drew everything bigger. i stopped in and saw he had drawn a massive ten story Xmas Star in the middle of Hollywood and Highland Avenue for a project we were proposing at Landmark entertainment. It looked like the 50's spiked star on the Matterhorn, but insanely huge like a building with a traffic circle."Anyone can do something small" he said and drew this thing on an epic scale as he was an epic guy. That stayed with me. My first week at WED, I did the same thing and enlarged a small sketch to be close to ten feet in length then detailed it. Everyone was wowed because it took two people to bring in this big spacecraft rendering. An idea seems bigger when it is presented on a massive scale. He was right.
The DW Griffith (His Hero)silent epic "Intolerance" set ripoff at "Hollywood and Highland" (Mall in Hollywood) was originally his idea as a mega set shopping complex, and when it did not happen, I proposed it again as an homage, and eventually it ended up being executed on a shoestring by others on that very spot. Sorry John, I tried.
Then there's the Elevated Train from the Dolly set. Look at the Station in this Colin Campbell painting. Obvious lift. The metal stairs made it into the final station in the park.
The day we were there we were not allowed into the Harmonia Gardens. I would have remembered that set. We met in Century Plaza Mall first and there was a model of the "Seaview" Submarine in the tour office there. I was already wowed by that point and we had not even departed. We saw what was left of the Western Street, a Prison Block, A Waterfront with a Ship, the NY urban "Batman" Street, New England "Peyton Place", and then the Dolly Street as the finale.
If you have the Dolly DVD, there is a "making of" the parade sequence featurette I was watching not 5 minutes ago and it has the drill team and so much of what I recall that day on that magical tour. Maybe she is in it. I freeze frame it so many times it's not funny as that design of that film is the benchmark for everything we did on Main Street. Peter Kelly was a set designer on Dolly and he was on our staff, he gave me the blueprints of Harmonia Gardens! I dragged the lake for every old school movie set designer that could bring that cinematic look to Main Street. It had to have the depth of the Fox look! I recall you doing things for technicolor especially with the costumes. You want them to stand out from the sets. They told stories of birds trying to land on faux painted window sills and they would fall off the NYC flats. De Cuir and others had this special color palette that Fox used and I'm still trying to acquire it from and old Art Director friend. It's grayed and restrained as a background like Disney. Look at the soft wall colors in the Hat Shop and the Feed store. Totally tasteful. The rugs and costumes,flowers and accents stand out. I can't honestly say I "worked" with DeCuir on projects, but spied on him and hung in his office and bugged him. He thought big and drew everything bigger. i stopped in and saw he had drawn a massive ten story Xmas Star in the middle of Hollywood and Highland Avenue for a project we were proposing at Landmark entertainment. It looked like the 50's spiked star on the Matterhorn, but insanely huge like a building with a traffic circle."Anyone can do something small" he said and drew this thing on an epic scale as he was an epic guy. That stayed with me. My first week at WED, I did the same thing and enlarged a small sketch to be close to ten feet in length then detailed it. Everyone was wowed because it took two people to bring in this big spacecraft rendering. An idea seems bigger when it is presented on a massive scale. He was right.
The DW Griffith (His Hero)silent epic "Intolerance" set ripoff at "Hollywood and Highland" (Mall in Hollywood) was originally his idea as a mega set shopping complex, and when it did not happen, I proposed it again as an homage, and eventually it ended up being executed on a shoestring by others on that very spot. Sorry John, I tried.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Some of the same people that worked at Fox during the Dolly years also worked on Walt Disney World. So i can't say that WDW Main Street was inspired by the set, but the talent pool probably worked on it.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
That makes sense as I've read that the imagineers wanted to jazz up the Magic Kingdom's Main Street, maybe because MK's Main Street has a much bigger castle at the end of it, and the street needed to visually stand out a big more than Disneyland's Main Street.
Anyway, I've heard MK's Main Street described as the Hello Dolly! version of Disneyland's Main Street on different occasions, and that it imparts a bit more energy than the slightly more sedate feel of Disneyland's Main Street. I think of Hello Dolly whenever I visit MK's Main Street and they play Hello Dolly! music on the loop. As opposed to Disneyland, MK's Main Street really feels like somebody is going to break out into song at any moment.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
That is a good point. I never really thought of it that way but I can see the similarity between the two. There is a lush and consistent level of richness in the Walt Disney World Main Street versus the more innocent and simplistic small town look of what we have in Anaheim. Of course, many of the façades we used in Disneyland Paris' Main Street are lifted from Walt Disney World.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
I read today on Miceage that Michael Colglaser is coming to Disneyland. I know Mike well and really respect him. He hired my company to do creative research and development for him at Walt Disney World a few years ago. He was very sensitive to the brand and really wanted to do the right thing creatively. He is a very approachable person and I think that most fans will find him agreeable. I for one am thrilled to have him on my coast so I can go say hi to him. George was also very nice and I wish him all the best in his new position.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
I was asked to explain a little bit about a proposal was made many years ago regarding reinventing the Haunted Mansion with free ranging ride vehicles, as were installed in the Tokyo Disneyland Winnie the Pooh attraction.
There was some interest in reinventing and enhancing Disneyland's classic attractions for its 50th anniversary. Also, we were asked to look at what could be done at Tokyo Disneyland. At the time, my area of responsibility was overseeing the master planning of Tokyo Disneyland so I could use that budget to develop things.
A recent issue of D23 magazine had a piece of artwork showing the Haunted Mansion ballroom with guests seated at the table. That artwork was the outgrowth of this very preliminary proposal.
As I recall, we had retooled the story somewhat to include the idea that each guest would be invited to a rather macabre Mardi Gras party. 3-D glasses would be handed out as you enter, themed as Mardi Gras masks with very interesting and somewhat spooky decorations. After the stretching room sequence which would be enhanced to set up this story better, guests would be invited for the first time into the ballroom and be seated at the table for the party. Unbeknownst to the guest, the chairs of the table are actually the seats of their ride vehicle. These chairs were on a platform in groups of 2 to 4 people. I can't really remember what we worked out. the ghost host explained that the party was a way for them to choose the 1000 ghost and that it was a process of elimination. The ghosts would begin to make their selections right there at the table. The 3-D glasses allowed the ghosts and so forth to appear to grab the high seat backs of the chairs across from you and when the lightning flashed, the room went dark and you saw the hands grab the chairs and pull them away from the table! So, one by one the guests throughout this mysterious dinner continue to disappear into the darkness. We had done special effects with the dinner plates so things appear in the plate in addition to your reflection. This was just the introduction to the to or through the house. I believe that the chairs leaned back in the darkness and what your glasses saw was you being buried alive with dirt being thrown on you or some other kind of interesting transition if that was just too intense. It probably was. But we were just in the blue sky idea phase and thought that this would be a fun way to have the ghosts grab your chair and two are you through the house. That's all that I really remember. The goal of the time, was to open up the minds of the management to the insane potential of free ranging and wireless ride vehicles that could have a mind of their own. I sincerely doubt whether the company would've went into this amount of change in a classic attraction, but introducing this type of technology and service of a story would be very powerful. It's not hard to imagine musical chairs in all kinds of interesting and fun applications of this technology. I'm sure the imagineers are up to this type of thing and we will see all kinds of interesting new developments in upcoming attractions. I guess it just took longer than I expected.
We also developed a similar Wireless ride vehicle experience based on the movie "Scream". This would've been for the studio tour.
There was some interest in reinventing and enhancing Disneyland's classic attractions for its 50th anniversary. Also, we were asked to look at what could be done at Tokyo Disneyland. At the time, my area of responsibility was overseeing the master planning of Tokyo Disneyland so I could use that budget to develop things.
A recent issue of D23 magazine had a piece of artwork showing the Haunted Mansion ballroom with guests seated at the table. That artwork was the outgrowth of this very preliminary proposal.
As I recall, we had retooled the story somewhat to include the idea that each guest would be invited to a rather macabre Mardi Gras party. 3-D glasses would be handed out as you enter, themed as Mardi Gras masks with very interesting and somewhat spooky decorations. After the stretching room sequence which would be enhanced to set up this story better, guests would be invited for the first time into the ballroom and be seated at the table for the party. Unbeknownst to the guest, the chairs of the table are actually the seats of their ride vehicle. These chairs were on a platform in groups of 2 to 4 people. I can't really remember what we worked out. the ghost host explained that the party was a way for them to choose the 1000 ghost and that it was a process of elimination. The ghosts would begin to make their selections right there at the table. The 3-D glasses allowed the ghosts and so forth to appear to grab the high seat backs of the chairs across from you and when the lightning flashed, the room went dark and you saw the hands grab the chairs and pull them away from the table! So, one by one the guests throughout this mysterious dinner continue to disappear into the darkness. We had done special effects with the dinner plates so things appear in the plate in addition to your reflection. This was just the introduction to the to or through the house. I believe that the chairs leaned back in the darkness and what your glasses saw was you being buried alive with dirt being thrown on you or some other kind of interesting transition if that was just too intense. It probably was. But we were just in the blue sky idea phase and thought that this would be a fun way to have the ghosts grab your chair and two are you through the house. That's all that I really remember. The goal of the time, was to open up the minds of the management to the insane potential of free ranging and wireless ride vehicles that could have a mind of their own. I sincerely doubt whether the company would've went into this amount of change in a classic attraction, but introducing this type of technology and service of a story would be very powerful. It's not hard to imagine musical chairs in all kinds of interesting and fun applications of this technology. I'm sure the imagineers are up to this type of thing and we will see all kinds of interesting new developments in upcoming attractions. I guess it just took longer than I expected.
We also developed a similar Wireless ride vehicle experience based on the movie "Scream". This would've been for the studio tour.
michmousefan
Well-Known Member
That sounds amazing! I wonder if with the new RFID tech, the system could "remember" the path you took the last time you rode, and then offer you a different experience the next time you experienced the attraction. Sort of like a "dedicated randomness" or something like that.
With the ability for the RFID to know your name, it's one time that for sure some people could get freaked out by a mischievous ghost addressing you by name...
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Back then AR was not there yet in any form but your basic 3D projected combined with scenery was where were thinking.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Yes. All of that. That's the point, once you go there the potential of a new "wow" is achievable. If you stay where you are, you don't get there. We were just trying to get some fresh thinking going.
Darth Sidious
Authentically Disney Distinctly Chinese
I hope someday these ideas find their way to WDW. Perhaps not at the HM but at least in a brand new attraction. I also hope that they can build some rides that are exclusive to the land's theme rather than IP. Not that IP is a big deal but I love something new and creative. Also who knows, that new story could be the next Pirates and spawn future movie franchises.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
I believe that completely new physical experiences are incredibly valuable. "Disney magic" is sometimes defined by the words "how did they do that?" I think there is quite a bit of awe in the environments like Carsland, but it would be nice to see some real Disney "magic" that astounds people, and those vehicles got that result in Japan over a decade ago. We just have to be patient.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
I am really excited for Antartica: Empire of the Penguins at SeaWorld Orlando which will be using similar vehicles with some motion capabilities.
Eddie Sotto
Premium Member
Me too. It's a shame that other parks beat them to it.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Scanned back a bit and did not see any reference to the new Glenn Beck project in Texas dubbed 'Independence USA'. I have been wondering for years if you have ever spoken with or consulted with him? If not, I would really hope that can happen. It is amazing how so many here have lamented that Walt's vision for EPCOT never was realized and how even the theme park has lost focus. And now this project truly seems to be picking up where Walt left off. I can't imagine you have not heard of it and have thoughts about it. Or perhaps you are involved because it is refelective of so many of your thoughts.
I just think it is brilliant that he is doing this and would hope there is a way you could be involved in some way if you currently are not.