Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

[Pixiedustmaker]

I'm not sure this guy thought about how the trains will take curves or make grade changes but it's a fun way to look at a problem differently.

. . .

Here's a Syd Mead concept I've always liked and it's kind of pod-like...

There are other videos of the trackless train that show a rotating platform that can move the train 180, does seem a little impractical, though the positives are that it supposedly costs less as you don't have to build track, and I think he implied that it would be easy to route it through buildings.

Disney has always been great at showcasing up and coming transportation technologies (even if they didn't pan out as planned):

Freeway - The Autopia
Monorail - WDW, Disneyland
People Mover - Tomorrowland
Trams (?) - Parking lot transportation
Segway - seen them at Epcot
Red Car Trolley - Wireless battery charging on vehicles

Plus, the parks had always showcased transportation's past, such as horse drawn trolleys, double decker buses.

Given that new transportation technologies have a problem wowing guests, maybe they could do a "Adventures Through Inner Space" sort of thing where they make up a new fangled form of transportation that really involves some slight of hand. Like what about having "flying" vehicles, but somehow accomplishing it without true levitation, so when you enter Tomorrowland you greeted by a fantastical sight that you try to work out how they do it.

Like maybe a super-conducting track that levitates a ride vehicle a couple of feet, (the magnetic fields keep it so the ride vehicle doesn't fly off the side of the track, same principle with levitating trains.)



I think when you think about the future of transportation, you think about energy savings, and levitating cars with super conducting magnets makes sense if you can do it cheaply as there is only air resistance for friction.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I really wish I could get to one of his exhibitions so I could at least see his paintings in their original format. I was lucky enough to see Robert McCall's work at The Tech in San Jose once. I was blown away by the impact of his art on the large canvasses. Syd Mead seems to be much more precise but while some of his lines seem to done with a straight edge, there are other parts of his paintings that have an incredible fluid quality to them. I hope you are taking him up on the lunch offer.

We had a great time at the Encounter some time back. Syd paints on a relatively small scale using straight edges and french curves. He has the ability to do both so his work is incredibly detailed and his draftsmanship and control of light and reflection are incredible.

 

[Omnispace]

.....Disney has always been great at showcasing up and coming transportation technologies (even if they didn't pan out as planned):

Freeway - The Autopia
Monorail - WDW, Disneyland
People Mover - Tomorrowland
Trams (?) - Parking lot transportation
Segway - seen them at Epcot
Red Car Trolley - Wireless battery charging on vehicles

Plus, the parks had always showcased transportation's past, such as horse drawn trolleys, double decker buses.

Given that new transportation technologies have a problem wowing guests, maybe they could do a "Adventures Through Inner Space" sort of thing where they make up a new fangled form of transportation that really involves some slight of hand. Like what about having "flying" vehicles, but somehow accomplishing it without true levitation, so when you enter Tomorrowland you greeted by a fantastical sight that you try to work out how they do it.

Like maybe a super-conducting track that levitates a ride vehicle a couple of feet, (the magnetic fields keep it so the ride vehicle doesn't fly off the side of the track, same principle with levitating trains.)

I think when you think about the future of transportation, you think about energy savings, and levitating cars with super conducting magnets makes sense if you can do it cheaply as there is only air resistance for friction.

Don't forget Speedramps! Those were actually a hot ticket item for future transportation when Disneyland was being planned and were installed in many locations around Tomorrowland: Monorail, Carousel of Progress, PeopleMover, Space Mountain. Personally, I preferred the Speedramp exit from Space Mountain over the current stairs that replaced it during the latest remodel. I actually had an opportunity to ride the accelerating walkways at Toronto's airport but wouldn't you know it they weren't operating when I passed through there -- both times!

Also, in case you want to take 80 of your friends for a drive, there's the Traveling Theaters from Universe Of Energy. A friend of mine that worked the pavilion said those things can really move around quickly in manual mode!

The Atomobiles in Adventure Thru Inner Space always fascinated me since all the major working parts for them were hidden under the floor. Bob Gurr's design was ingenious! It wasn't true levitation but they definitely had that special character I was talking about earlier that riding in them was a new and unexpected experience. Of course by adapting them to the Haunted Mansion and other attractions, the novelty has worn off. Still, if they ever do a proper ride-thru attraction for Epcot's Seas pavilion I would advocate using translucent Omnimover cars that "glow" softly in the deep ocean scenes.

 

[ChrisFL]

Eddie, do you have any comments about the Next-Gen/RFID stuff that Disney seems to be wasti...err using $1.5 to $2 Billion on? (or did you comment previously and I missed it?)

 

[Omnispace]

Well needless to say, the news that Universal is purchasing the rights to the "Lord of the Rings" franchise is nothing but good. Maybe people want to escape to fantasy worlds when the future doesn't look that bright?

As long as the world economy can sustain it, the theme park business in (at the higher levels) seems to be on a Franchise shopping spree. It remains to be seen how the execution of these brand experiences will become, but if it's anything like the Harry Potter franchise then these worlds will be pretty rich. There almost seems to be a backlog of environments to be constructed. Star Wars, Marvel, Avatar, and soon the rest of Harry Potter and then the "Lord of the Rings". We haven't even discussed what DreamWorks might end up doing. With all of that going on, you won't be able to get a Pixar attraction in sideways! The boom of Pixar projects was probably perfectly timed given the demand now to build all of these other worlds. There is only so much money and only so many tourists so I guess the best is yet to come. I can't imagine Disney building sequels to the Mystic Manor when they have all of these pre-sold brands sitting on the table waiting to happen. Interesting times these are!

I agree that this can be a great thing for everyone. My only fear is that a corporate mindset will take a cookie-cutter approach to developing these new realms as opposed to tailoring each one appropriately. We now have two very good examples in CarsLand and Harry Potter's but both those realms had strong oversight of their creators calling the shots. Unfortunately, the Toy Story lands I have seen photos of are not very compelling.

CarsLand has a lot of nostalgia driving its success. Harry Potter has the depth of it's rich environment. Avatar may be able to pull it off with it's pretty glowing plants though watch out for those hyhena-wolf things. Lord of the Rings can be very rich: very beautiful and deeply scary. Star Wars always seemed like a cold and hostile universe to me, except for Naboo and Endor. The Marvel world?.... ..meh. Overall though they are certainly going to put a lot of effort into these. I'm looking forward to see what comes of it.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I agree that this can be a great thing for everyone. My only fear is that a corporate mindset will take a cookie-cutter approach to developing these new realms as opposed to tailoring each one appropriately. We now have two very good examples in CarsLand and Harry Potter's but both those realms had strong oversight of their creators calling the shots. Unfortunately, the Toy Story lands I have seen photos of are not very compelling.

CarsLand has a lot of nostalgia driving its success. Harry Potter has the depth of it's rich environment. Avatar may be able to pull it off with it's pretty glowing plants though watch out for those hyhena-wolf things. Lord of the Rings can be very rich: very beautiful and deeply scary. Star Wars always seemed like a cold and hostile universe to me, except for Naboo and Endor. The Marvel world?.... ..meh. Overall though they are certainly going to put a lot of effort into these. I'm looking forward to see what comes of it.

Toy Story land looks to me like they basically figured that they could dress up off-the-shelf rides as oversized toys and turn this into a land. The whole land is built on the cheap, has some charm, but it looks like they went half-way with the concept due to money constraints and it's basically a slightly upgraded Paradise Pier for struggling parks outside the U.S..

I think that the Toy Story concept is begging for a detailed, and yes expensive, dark ride, perhaps using LPS technology and ride vehicles which are based on half a dozen different toys, instead of the same ride vehicle for everyone. You could have the experience of rooting around under Andy's bed, and following toys on an adventure.

I wonder if they'll ever upgrade Bug's Land at DCA, though I know small kids love Heimlich's . . . they'd also love just as much (maybe more) an extended train ride with more to actually see, and it would be a much better experience for adults.

 

[Omnispace]

I think that the Toy Story concept is begging for a detailed, and yes expensive, dark ride, perhaps using LPS technology and ride vehicles which are based on half a dozen different toys, instead of the same ride vehicle for everyone. You could have the experience of rooting around under Andy's bed, and following toys on an adventure.

An adventurous journey under Andy's bed could be a lot of fun!

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

An adventurous journey under Andy's bed could be a lot of fun!

I think all of Toy Story Mania is technically happening under Andy's bed!

But I think a Toy Story Ride could go at it from the angle of shrunken down to the size of a toy, and you're on an adventure with them through the house, and outside a bit. Toy Story characters, like the characters from Cars, seem ideally suited as animatronics in a dark ride given that the animatronics would look great in that medium. A bit hard to translate a plasticky animatronic Ariel into the real thing.

 

[RSoxNo1]

An adventurous journey under Andy's bed could be a lot of fun!

Imagine that Andy just got a midway games playset, we're shrunk down to the size of a toy and we get to play the midway games? How awesome would that be?

 

[Omnispace]

Imagine that Andy just got a midway games playset, we're shrunk down to the size of a toy and we get to play the midway games? How awesome would that be?

So that's what it's supposed to be, thanks!

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The movie that was a big influence on both Tony and I in design for the Paris Main Street, Hello Dolly!,(a musical from 1969 designed by John De Cuir Sr.) is now on iTunes in 1080i HD. Watched it again and soaked in the beautiful colors and incredible detail. If you hate Streisand, you can watch it with the sound off and still be blown away by great sets. The "Harmonia Gardens Restaurant", featured in the second half, is a jaw dropping environment. I still in silent awe and jealousy as the El Train we wanted for Paris looks so good in that film.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So the DisneyParks Blog today had a post about MyMagic+ and there is one image in particular that really bothers me about NextGen. It is a family headed into the FastPass queue and the Jungle Cruise with a Cast Member looking on, smiling and holding an iPad in a pretty well sized case. It seems rather counter productive to have all of this effort put in to creating environments and then hand a bunch of the cast bulked up iPads.

 

[Omnispace]

The movie that was a big influence on both Tony and I in design for the Paris Main Street, Hello Dolly!,(a musical from 1969 designed by John De Cuir Sr.) is now on iTunes in 1080i HD. Watched it again and soaked in the beautiful colors and incredible detail. If you hate Streisand, you can watch it with the sound off and still be blown away by great sets. The "Harmonia Gardens Restaurant", featured in the second half, is a jaw dropping environment. I still in silent awe and jealousy as the El Train we wanted for Paris looks so good in that film.

That's cool. Were you ever able to see the outdoor sets for real? I'm not even sure how long they lasted...

 

[Eddie Sotto]

That's cool. Were you ever able to see the outdoor sets for real? I'm not even sure how long they lasted...

When I was about 10 we took a tour of the Fox Studios and saw the NY Street (where the parade happened) set as it was days before shooting. I have never been so overwhelmed by make believe. The farther you walked the flatter it became. I remember looking behind me and the whole thing was scaffold and flats a dozen stories tall. Life changing moment. I told my mom that I had to meet the man who did this as I want to do it too. Eventually I did.
Tony Baxter is about ten years older than me, and when I told him that story he told me he volunteered as an "Extra" in the crowd watching the parade pass by!!! So that film has special meaning for both of us, as it was the inspiration for the "El Train" that missed it's chance in the 20's Main Street, but eventually ended up in TDS. It had a romantic feel to it but was also realistic when you look at the aging and textures of the buildings. The graphics were excellent as well. I have studied it many,many times. The designer John DeCuir was a bigger than life man, and to my surprise was taught by my own good friend and inspiration, Imagineer Herb Ryman! De Cuir worked in an office across from me prior to working for Disney and I was in awe of him and had a few chances to chat with him and look at his work.


Here's a great webpost on the sets.
http://barbra-archives.com/films/hello_dolly_3_streisand.html

 

[hiptwinmama]

Well needless to say, the news that Universal is purchasing the rights to the "Lord of the Rings" franchise is nothing but good. Maybe people want to escape to fantasy worlds when the future doesn't look that bright?

As long as the world economy can sustain it, the theme park business in (at the higher levels) seems to be on a Franchise shopping spree. It remains to be seen how the execution of these brand experiences will become, but if it's anything like the Harry Potter franchise then these worlds will be pretty rich. There almost seems to be a backlog of environments to be constructed. Star Wars, Marvel, Avatar, and soon the rest of Harry Potter and then the "Lord of the Rings". We haven't even discussed what DreamWorks might end up doing. With all of that going on, you won't be able to get a Pixar attraction in sideways! The boom of Pixar projects was probably perfectly timed given the demand now to build all of these other worlds. There is only so much money and only so many tourists so I guess the best is yet to come. I can't imagine Disney building sequels to the Mystic Manor when they have all of these pre-sold brands sitting on the table waiting to happen. Interesting times these are!

I understand why they are buying up those franchises, and it all sounds fun for tweens, teens, and many adults. Me, I am a sucker for the magical, happily ever after. I love the sense of wonder. As a child ( in the late 70's early 80's) Disney was pure magic, we always waited an hour for Space Mountain it was a given and no body complained, it was the price you paid (or didn't) for the experience. Even EPCOT was awesome. I remember my parents having to pull us out of the big play area above Journey in to Imagination. I remember how beautiful the living seas used to be, and how educational that whole human body pavilion was. Don't even get me started on the Kitchen Cabaret. It sounds like the new Test Track maybe heading back the roots of World of Motion. Innovations was actually cool and super fun, now it is just filler. I just long to see More real Magic at WDW. Universal is more about thrills and I am okay with that too. Heck when I was in my 20's I loved IOA/WDW and when my kids are older we'll go there too.

While I adore many of the Pixar films that have come out over the past several years, only a hand full were "MAGICAL" and special. We all know the ones. But I have to say, when I walked out of the theater from seeing Tangled ( not a pixar I think) I immediately called my mom and said.... "you know that old Disney Magic you say has been missing? We'll it's back" I want to feel that Magic again that WDW has lost. I think Radiator Springs is a Start! When I watch the videos of RR at DCA I get that butterflies feeling that I did when I Splash Mountain first opened. I think this whole next gen thing is super cool, and I know my family will greatly benefit from it, as we are tech savy and always stay on property, but I think it is taking away more of the "magic"

Enough of my rant... that is just my take. I am just glad I have an imaginative, artistically gifted child who wants to grow up to be an imagineer. At 7 years old, she already has plans to go to Ringling Art School, she is always asking me about how certain ride systems work and telling me how she could make it more fun and what she would make it look like. Gotta Love it. Hopefully she will be able to restore some of the old "Disney Magic"

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Enough of my rant... that is just my take. I am just glad I have an imaginative, artistically gifted child who wants to grow up to be an imagineer. At 7 years old, she already has plans to go to Ringling Art School, she is always asking me about how certain ride systems work and telling me how she could make it more fun and what she would make it look like. Gotta Love it. Hopefully she will be able to restore some of the old "Disney Magic"

Let's hope so as that's how most of us started. I was 5 when I knew I wanted to grow up to "Come up with the rides for Disneyland". Maybe kids like your daughter are the real "NextGen" ?

 

[thehowiet]

The movie that was a big influence on both Tony and I in design for the Paris Main Street, Hello Dolly!,(a musical from 1969 designed by John De Cuir Sr.) is now on iTunes in 1080i HD. Watched it again and soaked in the beautiful colors and incredible detail. If you hate Streisand, you can watch it with the sound off and still be blown away by great sets. The "Harmonia Gardens Restaurant", featured in the second half, is a jaw dropping environment. I still in silent awe and jealousy as the El Train we wanted for Paris looks so good in that film.

I remember riding in the Hello Dolly open air coach that was used in the movie in the early 90s at Strasburg Rail Road. Back then it still looked like it did in the movie. Unfortunately it's since been rebuilt and painted to match the rest of their rolling stock, but has retained the Hello Dolly name on the sides of the coach. SRR even has a WDW connection, as they are doing the refurb/rebuild on the WDW Lilly Belle locomotive, even though they won't acknowledge it if you ask. I assume since it's Disney that a non-disclosure agreement is part of the contract.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Al Lutz had a new column out today, http://micechat.com/19433-bibbidi-bobbidi-barcode/, he commented that the Main Street alley project is going to be fast-tracked. Seems like a prudent idea given the congestion surrounding the candlelight processional this year, plus it will help push guests in and out park once they add more space in Tomorrowland/Frontierland.

Interestingly, Lutz said that they will add a bridge somewhere midway . . . to block the view of the fireworks so as to keep the crowd flowing out of the park.

This bridge may have a Victorian sleeping room/veranda type space for fireworks dessert buffet viewing. Glad to see that they are thinking about opportunities like this. I think that Mermaid was a missed opportunity as they could have built it so it offered viewing of World of Color, along with a special dessert/dinner package. Once they build just a plain old box, they're stuck with it forever.

I did the Fantasmic dessert buffet years ago, it was *great*. Though obviously there is limited seating, I think if they do build the veranda, it should be massive, and allow for around 200 guests, versus just a handful. I think a better spot would be near the Plaza Inn, they could remodel it so it has a second floor that wraps around to the "bridge".

Hmm . . . +105,000 guests in both parks, seems like Disneyland will be getting an expansion in the near future, and the Main Street alley project is preparation for that.

 

[MarkTwain]

Hey Eddie, a random question popped up the other day, but I don't know if you've answered it. Disneyland and Magic Kingdom are both oriented on a north-south axis, so the layout of the park perfectly matches the orientation we always use when describing/thinking about them. So what was the reasoning for orienting Disneyland Paris to the northwest? Was it related to lighting or wind or anything like that?

 

[ChrisFL]

Hey Eddie, a random question popped up the other day, but I don't know if you've answered it. Disneyland and Magic Kingdom are both oriented on a north-south axis, so the layout of the park perfectly matches the orientation we always use when describing/thinking about them. So what was the reasoning for orienting Disneyland Paris to the northwest? Was it related to lighting or wind or anything like that?

That's a great question...I never thought about the angle of the parks on the north axis before.